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[tiannas]

According to the World Health Organization Canada is ranked 30th and the USA is ranked 37 in Health Care.

http://thepatientfactor.com/canadia...zations-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/

Apparently that report was published in 2000 using data collected in 1997. I also wonder how they arrived at the rankings?

I don't have personal experience with the US healthcare system, but my parents live in the US and they are very happy with it. From what they have told me about their experiences, they definitely outperform us on many levels.
Examples:
Average wait time at their ER - less than 30 minutes, wait times at my ER - between 6 and 20 hours.
My mom needed an MRI and it was done in her doctor's office an hour later, I needed an MRI, was put on a waiting list and it was done 10 months later.
My dad needed surgery and it was scheduled 3 days later, I needed surgery and waited 11 months. They sent me home after my surgery with internal bleeding and I ended up at the ER 6 hours later. There I waited 5 hours before I was seen. They found me a bed only after I passed out on the floor.
It is important to point out that in my opinion, the system in Quebec is far worse than that in the Western provinces. I have lived in both BC and Alberta and I received better care there than I have here.

 

[daydreamer41]

According to the World Health Organization Canada is ranked 30th and the USA is ranked 37 in Health Care.

http://thepatientfactor.com/canadia...zations-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/

And they rank Cuba 39th, 2 countries behind the US. Give me a break, the WHO. It's a EXTREME (let me use the word Merlot uses all the time) Left Wing organization under the auspices of the United Nations. What is their criteria? Have you been to Cuba other than the vacation spots? What is the last drug developed by a Cuban company? Cuban medical device company? Cuban patents?

And what drugs have Canadian companies developed? I don't even know what the large drug companies in Canada are. Yet the government of Canada has the nerve of dictating the prices they will pay to US drug companies. Meanwhile, insurance companies pay full price for drugs driving up premiums and people without insurance pay even higher.

So tell me Joe, what criteria does the WHO use to make their assessments. I can tell you my guess - propaganda. The world hates the US, and they use fraudulent organizations like the WHO operated by the UN, another fraudulent organization.

 

[HornyForEver]

Health care is free here, we don't pay a dime if we go to a hospital or to a clinic. The downside is waiting time and this is due to the fact that many citizens abuse the system and go to ER for some illnesses as little as a little fever. I guess that people have to pay (maybe big bucks) in order to get those great services at clinics in the U.S. and if they cannot afford to pay, then let them die.

One needs to take many factors into account when comparing heath-care systems of different countries. This reminds of Micheal Moore who raved about our healt-care system (comared to the American one) in his Sicko film, though he forgot to mention the waiting times and to film people who are lodged in hopitals' hallways. Putting things in perspective is always a good thing.

 

[Joe.t]

Here is another report this one from Bloomberg and the Huffington post on most efficient Health Care Countries, Canada is ranked 17 and the USA is ranked 46, also I will quote Bloomberg "Among advanced economies, the U.S. spends the most on health care on a relative cost basis with the worst outcome".

http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst/most-efficient-health-care-countries

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/29/most-efficient-healthcare_n_3825477.html

I have a question for the American Board members, here in Canada if a minimum wage earning worker working at a Mom and Pop shop breaks his leg walking down the street he can go to any hospital of his liking and get treated without paying a dime, would that same low income worker have the same options in the US?, just a question.

 

[daydreamer41]

Horny, the same thing is going to happen here. Many doctors who are in their 50's, 60's and 70's (yes there are many older doctors still practicing in the US) talk about retiring. We don't have enough medical schools to train the next set of doctors if there is a mass retirement, as threatened. Obamacare in its short life has been very chaotic. It will get more chaotic. Plus, much of the subsidized Obamacare is really or Medicaid. Imagine paying for Medicaid, even if it were subsidize if you were lower income? Many doctors quit taking Medicaid.

You zeroed into the problem. It's free, it gets abused. Even free healthcare paid by companies, employees abuse it. Personally, I think people should be able to pay a reasonable premium for catastrophic care insurance while parents build a healthcare account for out pocket and deductibles through the life of a child. The only thing an insurance company need cover is one physical a year and insurance for catastrophic care, such as Cancer, Heart problems and rare diseases. When someone absolutely needs care, it should not be denied. But like you said people going to emergency wards for colds really taxes the system. If people had to pay for those visits, guess what? They would go to the pharmacy for an over the counter cold remedy, drink hot tea, lemon and honey and stay home for a couple of days from work.

 

[tiannas]

Health care is free here, we don't pay a dime if we go to a hospital or to a clinic. The downside is waiting time and this is due to the fact that many citizens abuse the system and go to ER for some illnesses as little as a little fever. I guess that people have to pay (maybe big bucks) in order to get those great services at clinics in the U.S. and if they cannot afford to pay, then let them die.

But it's not really free. You have already paid for those services with your tax dollars.
People are at the ER with minor ailments because they have nowhere else to go. There should be urgent care clinics here that are open late, where you can see a doctor as a walk-in patient and not have to go to the hospital.

I am not an expert on the US system, but here's my understanding - in the US you buy insurance so that you can get those great services. Often your employer will pay a part of your insurance cost and you pay the rest. You may have a co-pay so that it costs you a small amount, like $10 each doctor visit. But you pay less in income taxes, so you have more money left over to afford the insurance. I don't know if it would work out to more in the end, maybe it would, but at least the quality of service is there. And they don't just leave people to die in the US if they don't have insurance...you may end up with a medical bill you wish you didn't have, but they will treat you if it is life-threatening.

 

[HornyForEver]

Seriously? 18-hour waiting times are due to thousands of citizens going to the ER for a cold? :lol: Ever heard of triage?

Why are you putting words in my mouth? I did not say that all of them suffered from a cold, what I meant is that many people go to ER and clinics instead of just picking up some medication off the shelf in order to feel better.

 

[daydreamer41]

Here is another report this one from Bloomberg and the Huffington post on most efficient Health Care Countries, Canada is ranked 17 and the USA is ranked 46, also I will quote Bloomberg "Among advanced economies, the U.S. spends the most on health care on a relative cost basis with the worst outcome".

http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst/most-efficient-health-care-countries

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/29/most-efficient-healthcare_n_3825477.html

I have a question for the American Board members, here in Canada if a minimum wage earning worker working at a Mom and Pop shop breaks his leg walking down the street he can go to any hospital of his liking and get treated without paying a dime, would that same low income worker have the same options in the US?, just a question.



If this is the way it is in the USA then I would prefer our system which outranks the US in every report that I have seen, one of these days I have to watch Sicko.

Well, if this guy who earns minimum wage can get on the Obamacare website, he could get subsidized Health insurance. Haha, that's if he could get on. The library hasn't been open enough hours yet.

As for him being walking into a hospital without insurance, he won't be turned away. It's against the law in every state to turn away a person in need of care at a hospital without health insurance. He would be liable for the bill at the end, but many ignore the bill and end up sometime down the road declaring bankruptcy if they ever do make more money.

As far as the report you cited. I could see how the US would spend more per capita. There is a lot of obesity in the US. Obesity = diabetes, heart disease, cancer, stroke, etc. These diseases are expensive to maintain and treat. End of life care is more for people in the US. In our law, it's up to the individual and then families if no living will exists to resuscitate or not. Probably half of all people don't have living wills and families sometimes are reluctant to let their love ones go. Thirdly, the US is heavy into state of the art pharmaceuticals and medical devices. This adds to the cost.

 

[daydreamer41]

Horny, you said that waiting times were "due to the fact that many citizens abuse the system and go to ER for some illnesses as little as a little fever." I'm sorry I said "cold" instead of "little fever" and that somehow means I twisted your words. Words, it should be pointed out, that did not include "somewhat" or "partly" to qualify your statement but laid full blame on users for the health care problems in this province.

Are you aware of how many people in this province don't have a family doctor? 1 in 5.

Do you know that pharmacists have been asking for years to take on more responsibility but constantly face Health Department-made barriers when they try to play a better preventative role?

Do you know that nurses have been demanding for years to take on more responsibility as well? I know first hand how efficient the concept of "super nurse" they advocate is having lived in Northern Quebec where these nurses are allowed to practice and having never waited more than half an hour from sit-down in waiting room to prescription.

Do you know who's been consistently against giving pharmacists and nurses more responsibility in the health care system? The Collège des Médecins du Québec.

Who is generally Health Minister in Quebec?

Here's an interesting article from La Presse Affaires that might give you another perspective on the problem: http://affaires.lapresse.ca/opinion...7-des-infirmieres-medecins-pour-le-quebec.php.

Finally, another question: even if you do have a family doctor, where do you go when you're sick on the week-end? A 24h Tim Hortons? Why are CLSC's closed on the week-end? We have available infrastructure that's just waiting to be used and we just close it up Friday at 8?

The fact is, you can't blame a billion dollar problem on the common cold or "a little fever". If people end up in the emergency room for such problems it's because they have no other options. If they have no other options it's because they have people making bad political decisions, not because they are sick.

Again, how is a doctor qualified to manage a 30 billion dollar budget?

Insurance companies in the US have been setting up what they call Urgent Care Centers. They are equipped to handle emergencies like heart attacks, trauma from accidents, etc. They also can take patients. They take the most serious cases first like an emergency room, and some are open 12 to 16 hours during the day. During the middle of the night, an ambulance would take the person to a hospital. But these urgent care centers have been designed to lower costs, and in the same time provide a place where people could go in an emergency and in between have doctors see regular patients.

Also, certain states in the US have sanctioned what they call nurse practitioners or physician's assistant's who are able to diagnose and prescribe under the supervision of a doctor, meaning the doctor reviews the diagnoses and signs off on the prescription, if a prescription is necessary.

 

[zzy010]

Apparently that report was published in 2000 using data collected in 1997. I also wonder how they arrived at the rankings?

I don't have personal experience with the US healthcare system, but my parents live in the US and they are very happy with it. From what they have told me about their experiences, they definitely outperform us on many levels.
Examples:
Average wait time at their ER - less than 30 minutes, wait times at my ER - between 6 and 20 hours.
My mom needed an MRI and it was done in her doctor's office an hour later, I needed an MRI, was put on a waiting list and it was done 10 months later.
My dad needed surgery and it was scheduled 3 days later, I needed surgery and waited 11 months. They sent me home after my surgery with internal bleeding and I ended up at the ER 6 hours later. There I waited 5 hours before I was seen. They found me a bed only after I passed out on the floor.
It is important to point out that in my opinion, the system in Quebec is far worse than that in the Western provinces. I have lived in both BC and Alberta and I received better care there than I have here.

Not sure where that is but ER wait times have always been > 3hrs in nj, NYC and last time was 7+hrs with a PPO+ plan, there are now numerous urgent care centers which I now use where the wait times are 30-60 mins