Promoting sex services...

[metoo4]

Sean_Kato:

Lilly is in Canada and in Canada, prostitution is 100,000% legal and for her to live out of the money she make by being an escort is 100,000% legal also. There's also no laws preventing her to advertise her services.

There's NOTHING gray about it and cops are there to APPLY THE LAW so, since Lilly's situation is totally CLEAR and LEGAL as far as prostitution is concerned, she have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to worry about cops being concerned. As long as she doesn't sell drugs on the side, doesn't hire or force other peoples to do prostitution or do other stuff that is illegal, cops have no ground to stand on legally. So, since she's not doing any of these activities, she'll never ever see a cop who will be interested in her escort duties, besides maybe as a customer. Maybe there might be some shade of greys if she'd be going door-to-door proposing her outcall services and honestly, I don't imagine her even thinking about doing this!

As far as the Tax-Man, the money she make as aan escort is a taxable income, and you are right. With taxes, it's guilty until proven otherwise... And you better have a bulletproof argument to get away. Even if no money goes to the bank, the way beoples live, their spending habits and living conditions can be scrutinized and used to define your declared income can't sustain the living condition you maintain. There's a Hells guy around here (Pierre "Cash" Larose) who learned this the hard way not too long ago... Both Revenue Services will now stick their noses in his finances and get whatever wasn't already seized.

 

[Possum Trot]

4- No need for you to do this (except for personal reasons), since escorting is legal. You can declare it (as long as you don't employ other girls).

This is the important part . Paying taxes and admitting you were escorting does not get you in trouble with law enforcement.

Arguing with Canada Revenue Agency as to whether the money was income earned for services provided ( therefore taxable) or a gift ( not taxable) is another subject entirely. In this case advertising services for a fee whether explicit sexually or not will obviously work against you if you are trying to say it was a gift.

The burden of proof is on the taxpayer as Kepler says but I have gone to court with CRA on their intepretation of the tax act and won. I wouldn't advise letting it get to this stage but hell I'm a stubborn guy and I was right on that particular issue.

Declare everything you put in a bank, brokerage account or buy traceable assets with ( car etc) and make sure that at the end of the day it's at least reasonable and you should be ok. Hell no one should be giving out advice to cheat on your taxes - as naive as that may seem to people

 

[sean_kato]

Sean_Kato:

Lilly is in Canada and in Canada, prostitution is 100,000% legal and for her to live out of the money she make by being an escort is 100,000% legal also. There's also no laws preventing her to advertise her services.

There's NOTHING gray about it and cops are there to APPLY THE LAW so, since Lilly's situation is totally CLEAR and LEGAL as far as prostitution is concerned, she have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to worry about cops being concerned. As long as she doesn't sell drugs on the side, doesn't hire or force other peoples to do prostitution or do other stuff that is illegal, cops have no ground to stand on legally. So, since she's not doing any of these activities, she'll never ever see a cop who will be interested in her escort duties, besides maybe as a customer. Maybe there might be some shade of greys if she'd be going door-to-door proposing her outcall services and honestly, I don't imagine her even thinking about doing this!

As far as the Tax-Man, the money she make as aan escort is a taxable income, and you are right. With taxes, it's guilty until proven otherwise... And you better have a bulletproof argument to get away. Even if no money goes to the bank, the way beoples live, their spending habits and living conditions can be scrutinized and used to define your declared income can't sustain the living condition you maintain. There's a Hells guy around here (Pierre "Cash" Larose) who learned this the hard way not too long ago... Both Revenue Services will now stick their noses in his finances and get whatever wasn't already seized.

Hi Metoo4,
Just for the record, aside from agreeing about staying under the radar, I was not referring to any of Lilly's (nor anyone else's) activities in any way. I don't know how you got that impression.

SK

 

[rollingstone]

Well, from what I remember, about 4-5 yrs ago, a companion, who was also a university student and lived in a very nice condo in downtown Montreal was caught by Revenu Canada because they found irregularities in her income and lifestyle. I think she would deposit the money into her bank account and that is how they were able to accuse her of tax excape. I remember she ended up owing the governement a big amount of money.

So if the SP can`t put the money in the bank account, are they forced to safety deposit boxes and other proverbial ``under the mattress`` solutions? What if a vengeful client reported her to Revenue Canada? Seems to be high risk involved. I only lived in Canada for a few years, but one constant in this world is that the Tax man is zealous when it comes to making sure he gets his cut.

 

[YouVantOption]

I should edit that to add: 'or open the paper looking for incall places to bust'.

Years ago I consulted a well-known lawyer who'd worked on several prostitution-related cases concerning this matter. He told me (I believe I've written this here in the past) there were 4 reasons LE would spend their human and financial resources to bust an incall:

1- it is run by a criminal organisation;
2- it provides/sells drugs to clients or girls (linked to #1);
3- it has minors (tip usually required by citizen);
4- it sequesters or brutalizes girls (girl has to complain to LE).

JAG

Yup. Remember, it isn't merely the cost of the cops. there are prosecutors and judge's time, bailiffs, guards, it is costly. when the priority shifts to prostitution, it is generally for a reason - political pressure, protests from neighbours causing political pressure, a desire to do something high-profile/public, etc. But it is offset by resources better spend catching actual criminals doing violent or much more serous crimes. If you consider prostitution to be a crime, that is.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I couldn`t help but notice that many women and agencies are advertising sex. It has become quite frequent to go on a provider`s website and see : , greek, cim, msog, etc. Now let`s be honnest, it doesn`t take a PHD to understand the meaning of those acronyms.....

I agree with you, Lilly. The whole industry appears to be going out of control at times. Discretion is getting rarer. Just take, for example, a new announcement that appeared on this board last week where a gangbang is advertised & they`re looking for participants & it`s even posted that there`ll be a $150 fee to be able to participate. Even the time & location of the event is advertised, and for some who know the Laval area fairly well, it doesn`t take a space scientist to figure out where it will be held. People are pushing the enveloppe more & more, it seems. I`m simply using this as an example of many others i could use. But Lilly does bring about a valid point with her post.

By the way, Lilly, congrats on your new affiliation. You & Mora?? Wow, wow, wow!!!! When i mentionned this to my good friend Alex K last night, his hair literally raised from his head & he added: ``Oh my God!!! A heart attack duo it is indeed!! It`s almost like if the roles were reversed, Doc Holliday & Alex K would get together to offer ``Heart Attack`` duos!!!!! Wow!!

The best of luck to the both of you, i`m 100% certain your affiliation will be a huge success.

 

[eastender]

Add..................

I should edit that to add: 'or open the paper looking for incall places to bust'.

Years ago I consulted a well-known lawyer who'd worked on several prostitution-related cases concerning this matter. He told me (I believe I've written this here in the past) there were 4 reasons LE would spend their human and financial resources to bust an incall:

1- it is run by a criminal organisation;
2- it provides/sells drugs to clients or girls (linked to #1);
3- it has minors (tip usually required by citizen);
4- it sequesters or brutalizes girls (girl has to complain to LE).

JAG

Add................
5 - it is in a residential area and other homeowners are complaining about shrinking re-sale values.

6 - it is within 100m of a school, nursery, daycare, church, community center,etc.

7 - it attracts SW who try to divert customers with low priced services, although this is often handled in a different fashion.

 

[eastender]

Direct Knowledge

Living off the avails is short for 'living of the avails of another person' or 'of a minor'. So no, it doesn't apply to the person providing the service. Why wouldn't it apply to newspapers? Aren't they making at least part of their earnings from the prostitution of other persons - where does the agencies' money to pay the ads come from?

I agree this isn't going to go to court any time soon though.

JAG

The newspaer would not have direct knowledge of the fact. They may suspect but this is not enough to prove.

 

[eastender]

Get a Second Opinion

Haha! Yep, I do have a GST and PST number! But I do not live of the "avails of". I do have a company in another field so so I live off that income. The money received for companionship is a gift and in Canada, gifts are NOT taxable because they are given after taxes was already taken on it (I love accountants who read the grey zones).

Now, you can receive a monetary gift tax-free, however, once an individual receives the gift, he or she would have to pay taxes on any income derived from the gift. For example, if you invest the funds in an investment portfolio and it generates interest, dividends or capital gains, it would be taxable.

Get a second opinion. One of the criteria for a gift as opposed to income or salary is consideration or a benefit received in return.

Effectively anyone could argue that they work for free and that the people who benefit from their work or hire them only give them "gifts". Does not fly.

 

[HaywoodJabloemy]

Independent incall escorts can be charged with keeping a common bawdy house. The definition in the Criminal Code specifies "one or more persons". I don't know how often it happens, because it's not something that would usually make the newspapers.

Cops crack down on e-hookers, from Feb. 2008

"Our officers are going through the Internet and newspapers on a daily basis searching for illegal activity."

The descriptions of the woman arrested and the next one who was evicted sound like they were independent since there's no mention of them employing others -- and nonsensically are the only actual examples given of the alleged crackdown supposedly targeting pimps exploiting young girls. And I'm not sure I believe that neighbours complained about the number of men showing up. I suppose it's plausible if it was an unbelievably busy operation making a lot of noise or somehow otherwise attracting attention. But a lone escort would have to be very indiscreet or have incredibly nosey and prudish neighbours for that to happen. It sounds like something the cops could just say in an attempt to justify these types of arrests, and in turn the budget allocated for their morality squad (or whatever it's called).

 

[YouVantOption]

Craigslist no longer your one-stop bj shop

Not her real photo.

If a high profile hooker patron like former New York Governor Eliot Spitzer could avoid charges in a gigantic prostitution sting, why can't you? Unfortunately, you might not get the chance to find out.

Craigslist, the listings site you pretend to search for furniture and jobs while trying to figure out which of the "casual encounters" posts might actually be for real, has struck an agreement with the attorneys general of 40 states. The deal requires that anyone who posts an "erotic services" ad provide a phone number and pay a fee using a valid credit card, information that could be provided to law enforcement if the site is subpoenaed.

So what's a "non-legitimate" friendly neighborhood handjob provider supposed to do? Not to worry. Just follow a few simple tips and you'll be evading law enforcement in no time.

POSTING YOUR NOT-AT-ALL-ILLEGAL CRAIGSLIST AD
The most important thing is to give the appearance of legitimacy. After all, that's how "legitimate" escort services do it. So choose your words carefully.

Remember, you are not a double-joined seductress who can make men leave their wives just by doing that thing you do with a champagne bottle. You are a "trained professional" who is "highly skilled" at "beverage container mechanics."

Exchanging sex for money is illegal, so you have to be very clear that your "job posting" does not involve any form of monetary payment. Never use the word "dollars" to describe fees. Instead, try "roses" or "reasons" or "cock wampum."

Finally, NEVER give out a phone number or address in your post. If you must provide a way for people to reach you, print your phone number using both words and numerals. For example:

5-five-2-four-(6+1-3÷2)-how many Mexicans does it take to screw in a lightbulb

Better yet, give your potential clients the location of a pay phone. Tell them you will call the pay phone and provide your real address and phone number. Then call the cops and give them the location of the phone and the physical description of the client. They will arrest him and give you reward money because he is a filthy criminal. It's a win-win!

Let's see what a new and improved prostitution posting looks like using these rules

http://a.236.com/images/photo2/7184/original/original_opt.jpg


ORIGINAL POST HERE

 

[YouVantOption]

nonsensically are the only actual examples given of the alleged crackdown supposedly targeting pimps exploiting young girls.

It took me about five minutes of googling telephone numbers in craigslist ads in Montreal to find a link to a very young-looking girl's cwellphone number showing up on a black guy's Myspace page for his Rap/Hip Hop act, with such lovely oeuvres as "I'm yo Pimp daddy, bitch" and other crap typical of that kind of scumbag.

I know, we all want it to be hot nymphomaniacs who are in this business because amazingly, hot girls just can't get enough sex on their own, so they advertise and what the hell, charge a little money on the side, and they keep all the profits and live happy, healthy, drug-free lives without a worry in the world because they have teflon'ed hoochies that can't possibly give them STDs, no boyfriends living off their avails, or having been sold into sexual slavery by mobsters back in eastern europe who are threatening their families, but sometimes, our fantasies ain't up to scratch with reality.

 

[HaywoodJabloemy]

If it's really that prevalent, openly advertised, and as easy to find as the cops tell the media, then why do they seem to have so much trouble actually finding it, and instead use their allegedly scarce resources to arrest an independent escort in her 30s? If it's really that bad and horrific, why is it such a low priority for the allegedly scarce resources of police forces not being used to free all of those sex slaves, while they're busy with all those other presumably higher priorities -- like handing out traffic tickets, etc.?

And if the hundreds of openly advertised and often municipally licensed massage parlours and escort agencies across Canada are really full of Asian and eastern European teenage girls kidnapped and forced into the business, as some seem to believe, why is it that, after years of looking for them, police raids on massage parlours, escort agencies or brothels haven't yielded a single victim?

Are they lying, or just incredibly incompetent?

 

[YouVantOption]

And if the hundreds of openly advertised and often municipally licensed massage parlours and escort agencies across Canada are really full of Asian and eastern European teenage girls kidnapped and forced into the business, as some seem to believe, why is it that, after years of looking for them, police raids on massage parlours, escort agencies or brothels haven't yielded a single victim?

Are they lying, or just incredibly incompetent?

Perhaps you should look into the difference between 'detectives' and 'street patrol' for starters. Secondly, take five minutes to research instead of just dismissing reality

http://www.truecrime.net/karla/
In 1995 and 1996, Sherry and Gonzales lured girls to a Montreal apartment where they were tortured, sexually assaulted and forced to be sex slaves to James Medley, 41, who was convicted of the crimes, received a 26-year sentence, and was declared a dangerous offender.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/slaves/needs/malarek.html

http://captivedaughters.org/2008_04_01_archive.html

You think this shit isn't happening? Tens of thousands of women are sold out of Romania, each year. Same thing with Asia.

Their families remain behind. You think they are going to say a word, when they know what will happen to their baby sister and Mom back home if they do so?

It is sickening to even have to answer such ludicrous doubts. Sex slavery happens everywhere, all the time.
http://coolopolis.blogspot.com/2007/08/club-888.html
http://nf.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1421
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2008/06/26/qc-prostitutionring.html
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2004/07/15/qc_prost20040715.html

 

[Cucullin]

Possum trot's post

Lilly, your intelligence and peceptiveness shine through the complacency or perhaps overconfidence and arrogance that can pervade this forum. I too am amazed by the open use of acronyms - in some instances spelled out for the uninformed. It is tempting legal fate in an era where the legality of music downloads through P2P sharing is constantly before the courts. That having been said, as my title line suggests, I agree with Possum Trots post regarding his understanding of the Criminal Code, but it takes only one president to turn everything on it's head.

Are any of you aware of what has happened with Mademoiselle Madison, formerly an independent and also with FKS?? To SP's and clients - be extremely careful and circumspect!!

 

[YouVantOption]

But all this doesn't matter, since no one in their right mind, with enough time and money, would seriously consider taking this to court. The only thing I'm saying, is there is an argument to support the claim that newspapers are partly living off the avails. The Criminal Code is clear: living off the avails of the prostitution of another person (or other persons), wholly or in part, is a crime.

CL was involved in deep negotiations with numerous AGs. I think the threat of possible prosecution under a parallel statute is what motivated them to take these steps.

I am going to say this again: VISA gift cards.

JAG (with too much time on her hands tonight)

Maybe you should have advertised on Craigslist?

 

[HaywoodJabloemy]

...http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/slaves/needs/malarek.html
...Tens of thousands of women are sold out of Romania, each year...

I did spend a couple of minutes flipping through Malarek`s book a few years ago. I did not read every word of it. I`m just not that interested in fiction.
http://www.dangardner.ca/Colmar1408.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/spectator/spec51.html

It`s nonsensically huge numbers pulled out of the air, phoney statistics backed up by anecdotes masquerading as real evidence, used to conflate all prostitution with slavery and speciously contend it`s increased by decriminalization (disproved by the exhaustively researched real example in New Zealand), and create a hysteria among gullible and moralistic North Americans who are ready to easily believe there`s a sex slave brothel on every third block,
http://www.slate.com/id/2094896/
https://merb.cc/vbulletin//showthread.php?t=32090

- much like the `white slavery` paranoia of 100 years ago.
http://www.walnet.org/csis/papers/doezema-loose.html

 

[YouVantOption]

I did spend a couple of minutes flipping through Malarek's book a few years ago. I did not read every word of it. I'm just not that interested in fiction.



It's nonsensically huge numbers pulled out of the air, phoney statistics backed up by anecdotes masquerading as real evidence, used to conflate all prostitution with slavery and speciously contend it's increased by decriminalization

- much like the 'white slavery' paranoia of 100 years ago.
http://www.walnet.org/csis/papers/doezema-loose.html

You will excuse me if I dismiss your unsupported contentions and assertions in the same manner you ignore factual evidence: as fiction, nonsensical, and specious.

 

[HaywoodJabloemy]

Okay. You're excused. Maybe you can go help all those imaginary women in Germany who had their unemployment benefits cut off because they refused to work in a brothel.
http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/brothel.asp

 

[YouVantOption]

Okay. You're excused. Maybe you can go help all those imaginary women in Germany who had their unemployment benefits cut off because they refused to work in a brothel.
http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/brothel.asp

No, I'll spend my time Leaving Britney Alone, and not reading any of the following, because some random, anonymous guy on the Internet told me sex slaves don't exist, so everything is ok.

http://www.google.com/search?q=sex slavery + united nations

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B04EEDA1439F936A15752C0A9629C8B63

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D07E0D6113DF933A15753C1A9649C8B63

http://www.un.org/events/10thcongress/2098.htm

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23986276-401,00.html