The Golden Years of Hobbying?

[Robin]

This the ONLY business which I have NOT seen any real rate increase in 25 years till the internet

I started to post this as a reply in another thread but realized it would be going off on a tangent from the thread topic. I felt this quote was very impressive. It agrees with my Montreal experience over the last 10 years. There is not much difference between the rates of the a popular English agency Heartbreakers in 1995 compared to its equivalent Celines Fantasies/Satin Dreams in 2005. The same goes for French agencies like Fantasme 1995 vs Fantasme 2005. And it is also the same for many American cities I have visited. In terms of real dollars after inflation, the typical hourly fee has dropped continuously in the last decade. At the same time, the service from the average escort has become more liberal (e.g. the percentage of escorts who dfk and ). And finally (due to more detailed reviews and the spreadsheet), the convenience and ease of finding the right escort for one`s preferences has never been better. We are lucky to be living through the golden years of hobbying that I`m sure will be envied by future hobbyists.

I wonder if the escorts who have been around a while feel the same way, or has their satisfaction deteriorated over the years instead?

 

[EagerBeaver]

My Theory

I have noticed these trends also, and I have a theory about them. The advent of the Internet, Escort Review Boards and Websites have made marketing and advertising much more effective and inexpensive. This had led to an explosive growth of, and a revolution by, the Independents. If they are smart, Independents can do their own marketing and booking and save a lot of money rather than working for a greedy agency owner who takes 40%. The "Indie Revolution" as I like to call it, has kept the agency owners honest and their prices down. There are now more Independents than ever. They have completely taken over the scene in the USA. In Connecticut, outcall agencies no longer exist. What you have is local indies and touring indies. I still prefer Montreal, of course, but Montreal has not been immune to this trend either.

 

[Aeneas]

It Has Only Gotten Better

Robin,

I have to agree with you that hobbying has only gotten better over the years. My experience doesn`t go back as far as yours, but it is spread over several continents. A few years ago I thought that Bangkok was the best place to find girls. Then I thought it was Prague. But as I have spent more time in Montreal, and enjoyed the company of more beautiful Quebecois women, I find it hobbying there to be the best I`ve ever experienced. On a recent trip I enjoyed TCIM with more than one provider, plus unbelievable GFE experiences with young, petite, natural-breasted girls that I continue to fantasize about. Hobbying has gotten better, and since I will most likely only get older (and less capable of hobbying) I find myself indulging in the sport more often than every before.

``Moderation is for monks. To enjoy life, take big bites.``

Aeneas

 

[Lee STONE]

Back in the seventies, when I was very young and very foolish..we use to pay 30-40$-Can. dollars
for a 30 minute quickie. at the local whore house (excuse the term)..nowadays I dont call these beautiful ladies by this demeaning word..they have all my respect..

Anyway..comparing today with years ago..I rather do this today than 30 yrs ago..I remember what safe sex was back then.. squeeze the cock..if nothing came out you Fs the lady without protection..
I was very lucky I didnt catch anything..God forbid..

Nowadays there is no such thing without protection, unless you are a crazy man and dont really care about humanity..

So Hobbying has got so much better in the last 30 yrs.. that I am indulging in this very interesting hobby today, 30 yrs later after my dangerous hobbying back in the seventies..God I feel old...
it has made me into a better person and lover.. and somehow helped my well being..

Go Figure........

We do live in the City of Beautiful Women..Mtl..

I wouldnt want to live anywhere else...



Lee STONE

 

[daydreamer41]

Robin,

I have to agree with you that hobbying has only gotten better over the years. My experience doesn`t go back as far as yours, but it is spread over several continents. A few years ago I thought that Bangkok was the best place to find girls. Then I thought it was Prague. But as I have spent more time in Montreal, and enjoyed the company of more beautiful Quebecois women, I find it hobbying there to be the best I`ve ever experienced. On a recent trip I enjoyed TCIM with more than one provider, plus unbelievable GFE experiences with young, petite, natural-breasted girls that I continue to fantasize about. Hobbying has gotten better, and since I will most likely only get older (and less capable of hobbying) I find myself indulging in the sport more often than every before.

``Moderation is for monks. To enjoy life, take big bites.``

Aeneas

Aeneas, you have only 7 posts and a few reviews, all with I-N. That is a higher end or more expensive agency. I think these guys are talking about the lower cost agencies, which were plentiful 10 years ago. And the quality of girls were very good also. Hobbying was much better then. You have to plan better and have luck nowadays to get the same quality at the same price.

 

[daydreamer41]

Back in the seventies, when I was very young and very foolish..we use to pay 30-40$-Can. dollars
for a 30 minute quickie. at the local whore house (excuse the term)..nowadays I dont call these beautiful ladies by this demeaning word..they have all my respect..

Anyway..comparing today with years ago..I rather do this today than 30 yrs ago..I remember what safe sex was back then.. squeeze the cock..if nothing came out you Fs the lady without protection..
I was very lucky I didnt catch anything..God forbid..

Nowadays there is no such thing without protection, unless you are a crazy man and dont really care about humanity..

So Hobbying has got so much better in the last 30 yrs.. that I am indulging in this very interesting hobby today, 30 yrs later after my dangerous hobbying back in the seventies..God I feel old...
it has made me into a better person and lover.. and somehow helped my well being..

Go Figure........

We do live in the City of Beautiful Women..Mtl..

I wouldnt want to live anywhere else...



Lee STONE

AIDS didn't exist 30 years ago and VD was not as prevalent. I don't follow your logic.

 

[moliere]

I also think it's a very good time for hobbying in Quebec, right now. I have been in this hobby for many years and the prices have not changed much but the service has got better and more liberal, and the girls are prettier and with a better attitude towards sex.

For instance, I remember not so long ago (less than 10 years) it was hard finding a SP who would do anal. And those who did were usually older, fat, ordinary looking and would allow only a few minutes of it with “light and careful pounding”. Nowadays, I don’t even bother asking that on the phone because most SPs will do it. Not only will they do it, but they usually enjoy it as well and the harder, the longer, the better it seems !!

But why did the prices didn't increase more ? I think it's a simple question of supply and demand. There are more girls willing to do this job than ever before. Sex is banal for them, it has become a common job. I know some SPs who even tell their parents what they do. It is not a shameful activity for a girl any more so a lot of them try it.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Let me take the Connecticut model. At one time in Connecticut, good outcall agencies charged $250/hour. Then the Internet happened. And guess what? These American SPs went out and bought computers. And they discovered that they could set up their own websites with pics, charge the same $250/hour, and not have to share 40% with the agency owner. Instead, they got to keep that 40%, less the marginal costs of creating and maintaining their own websites.

Suddenly the outcall agencies are now competing against these indies charging the same $250/hour they are charging. And they now have economic pressures in the form of not being able to raise their prices because of the indies, and not being able to lower them because they will lose their girls who will have incentive to go indie if the owners slash prices.

Then enter the LE factor that Connecticut outcall agencies had to deal with in the form of female state troopers infiltrating their ranks. So guess what happens?

Outcall agencies in Connecticut go extinct, just like Tyrannasauras Rex!

Now, none of this is really rocket science or requires a degree in economics to figure out, and in fact I don't have a degree in economics.

Now take this model to Montreal. Same thing is happening on a somewhat smaller scale. Because of no LE as to outcall agencies, you'll not see them go extinct. But they face the same built in pressures of a tremendous supply of competitively priced indies keeping them honest. And you also have the agencies keeping each other honest.

As I see it the next big step in Internet marketing is video. We already see a few agencies doing it and it is soon to be the industry norm. But always remember that no matter how good the marketing, the bottom line is always price vs. quality of product, and this is true in EVERY business. And if your product isn't worth what you are charging you will be beaten away by the ferocious competition in the long run.

 

[HonestAbe]

Golden Age for all despite ldl/hdh preference.

the bottom line is always price vs. quality of product, and this is true in EVERY business. And if your product isn't worth what you are charging you will be beaten away by the ferocious competition in the long run.

So the FKS girls are obviously doing something right or we wouldn't be debating their virtues. The fact that they are here and are making a very good living is proof enough that they are worth what they charge. Further, if LDL's are just as good in every aspect as HDH's, as some people keep trying to insist, what is stopping them from raising THEIR rates(becoming HDH)? Low self esteem? No desire to make more money? Not wanting to charge you more because they like you too much? Maybe they like being rushed back and forth between ten clients a night? Or...Maybe they are being honest with themselves.

Could it be that the ladies themselves are the best judge of what they think clients will pay to see them? Maybe the LDL's know in their heads that they are not HDH quality in either looks or ability, or both, and they realize that what EB says is true so they can not charge HDH prices and hope to make a living for very long. Only the "creme de la creme" can charge those prices because "creme" always rises to the top while everything else sinks to the bottom which isn't to say that whats on the bottom doesn't have value.

Instead of complaining about HDH prices however, rejoice that you hobby in Montreal because if 500Cad for a gorgeous sex machine bothers you here, imagine your despair if you lived in NYC or Las Vegas where rates for AVERAGE girls can be as high as $4,000 an hour! Now how many of us could afford that? I'll be the first to say not me.

Robin is absolutely right, this is a golden age for all Montreal hobbyists regardless of how much you pay. Just keep it in perspective, you get what you pay for. If you are fine with LDL theres nothing wrong with that, but please stop trying to convince those of us who tout HDH, as well as exceptional LDL's, that we are somehow getting ripped off.

 

[HockeyFan4MSOG]

Could it be that the ladies themselves are the best judge of what they think clients will pay to see them? Maybe the LDL's know in their heads that they are not HDH quality in either looks or ability, or both, and they realize that what EB says is true so they can not charge HDH prices and hope to make a living for very long. Only the "creme de la creme" can charge those prices because "creme" always rises to the top while everything else sinks to the bottom which isn't to say that whats on the bottom doesn't have value.

Instead of complaining about HDH prices however, rejoice that you hobby in Montreal because if 500Cad for a gorgeous sex machine bothers you here, imagine your despair if you lived in NYC or Las Vegas where rates for AVERAGE girls can be as high as $4,000 an hour! Now how many of us could afford that? I'll be the first to say not me.

RATES are set what any Market will handle. So the ladies at least if they are indies do set there own. When the indy doesn't get enough calls or has "the protocol" broken by customers "haggling" they normally do lower their ask rate.

I am glad that you quoted Las Vegas and NYC because eventhough their are women that claim 4000.00 hour some go alot less. You can get laid in both towns with paying 200-300 for a SOG 1/hr with an attractive woman also. I don't even want to tell you about NYC "trucker/hooker corner truck stops" where its 40-50 for a bj (trust me you want that rubber on you). The legal NV Brothels are really "haggle zones" just sit at the bar and speak with the SP as they come over. If you want to increase your chances of bartering just go during the day.

I was approached and offered 2,000.00 by a very very beautiful women in a Las Vegas casino at the black jack table. I was tempted but turned down the deal because it looked like a LE or scam artist. Nevada has a law that only Brothels are legal and Las Vegas is not an area where even a brothel is legal. Nevada has a monopoly on legal brothels within the US, they can print out prices on their menu's and hand them to customers but its really the woman that sets the prices.It is hit or miss in the "American Market State to State" with agencies and 'indies' this ones that are really scam artists versus the real thing and furthermore its illegal..

America where the 10 commandments are being removed but the "laws" on the books are based. (Oral sex with your spouse is illegal in some... Sodomy laws still on the books)
Its may not be enforced but its on the books.

So the inflated prices of any USA market really don't compare.

IF you want to compare prices of getting HDH and LDL compare Canadian Toronto to Montreal (legal market vs legal market).

If you need to look at another North American country ... quote the 200-300 USD hr "tourist" market in Mexico. ( I think its unfair... to compare these markets)

 

[orallover]

Oral sex with your spouse is illegal in some... Sodomy laws still on the books

are you serious? If one is married and want to do oral sex with one's spouse, one is expected to go to a jail? *of course oral sex is legal in those jail, right?*
holy crap, thank god I live in canada.

 

[HockeyFan4MSOG]

Yeah I am serious... but they are not enforced or enforced when they want to cause trouble or political change..

June/2003 Supreme Court stated they were unconstitional however .... note the black states (Florida!) and the red states (Same Sex only).. Here is the link.

http://www.sodomylaws.org/usa/usa.htm
http://www.sodomylaws.org/usa/florida/flnews002.htm

 

[HonestAbe]

Precisely!


You are correct, the rates which are set, whether by agency owner or by the SP, are set with a clear idea in their heads of what they think the market will pay them and be happy to repeat. As pointed out before, if clients don't think the product is worth the price they will not do repeat business which will ensure their eventual downfall. I remember seeing posts when FKS raised their rates to 500+Cad for 2 hours that they would fold because they were charging too much and there was not enough of a market for that price range. That theory ultimately has been proven to be totally wrong.

You are also right on in your assertion that many LDL's may not want to raise their rates because of potential disastrous effects on their client base in an ultra-competitive market. Thats precisely my point. If they are afraid of such a catastrophe there is a reason for that fear. In this case its because they are changing the makeup of their client base by charging more and they are being honest with themselves that they can not expect enough clients to pay them HDH prices because they have measured themselves up against the competition and realize they are not in the same league as HDH girls based on their looks and/or performance. Its certainly not that their isn't a market for HDH its just that only the most beautiful girls who ALSO provide the best services will be able to compete in that market.

Everybody wants to make as much money as they can and have as much fun and as little trauma as possible while doing it. If a girl can charge HDH prices and keep repeat business she will (she would be insane not too). There is no way I see an intelligent SP saying to herself "Well I should probably stay where I am in terms of price per hour even though I know I could make a lot more and see fewer clients to do it." Just like in most businesses once they realize that people would pay more and still be happy to come again(no pun intended), they will inevitably charge more. Ultimately we will determine who is HDH and who is not becasue we will not repeat with an HDH who we feel is not 1)Gorgeous and 2)A sexual dynamo.

Agreed, it is subjective as to what is worth the price we are paying but I have seen enough women to know what gorgeous is and I have never seen anyone, outside of on TV, who was more beautiful than the FKS girl I saw early last month. She was head and shoulders above any SP I have ever seen anywhere. I didn't even flinch about the money and I immediately started planning my next trip to include another encounter with her for TWICE the amount of time. Thats not to say that someone else may not find an SP who tickles their fancy at a lower price but it doesn't mean that she can necessarily charge HDH prices and stay busy. The girls who charge HDH prices and build a repeat client base are truly HDH, the girls who don't try to make more money for less work...well your guess is as good as mine as to why, but do you really believe its out of loyalty to a certain client base?

 

[HockeyFan4MSOG]

That analysis seems highly believeable and probable to me.


The limo driving around with full of pretty women in it, be nice to have a long incall in that limo. Bacheolor party for one!

Wonder how much that would cost!

 

[HonestAbe]

I agree that "greenhorns" don't have a full understanding of their job yet and what you say about the length of their careers may very well be true, but I don't know what is running through anyones mind other than my own. I also agree that when getting into a business very few people start out at the top in any profession. Rather, they must first "prove their worth" before they get a "raise." This is the point however.

If a girl does decide to stick around and make a career out of escorting it is up to her to make herself aware of what options are available to her career wise. With the advent of computer technology and the ready availability of access to the internet(I know they have computers in Montreal, I've seen them) it is very hard for me to believe that a career minded woman (even if she only speaks French, numbers are numbers and pictures are pictures)in this industry has no idea of what she can make based on comparisons of herself to other SP's. Take non sp women by comparison and tell me that the really hot ones do not know that about themselves(that they are hot) and having that self knowledge that it does not reflect in their attitudes toward who they will date and what their desires are out of potential boyfriends/husbands.

Same thing applies for SP's my friend. An SP would not have to be a member of MENSA to figure out that she is HDH material if she gets rave reviews about how beautiful she is again and again and how happy her clients were with her service. Once she comes to this realization she will almost immediately realize that she is missing out on some big money and a much easier schedule at work. The only scenario(other than her being absolutely dumber than a box of rocks) I could see that would keep her from trying HDH would be an abusive or threatening pimp who constantly dumps on her and trys to tear her ego down to keep her in his agency or outright threatens her that if she tries to leave he will hurt her. Understand I am not insinuating that anyone on this board does that.

You want to make more money and so do I. We will ask for more when we think we can get it. So will Sp's. If they are worth it they will become HDH's with a loyal clientele of men who are very discerning about what they want and won't think twice about paying higher prices to get it. If they are not worth it they will either drop back into the LDL market or get out all together. Thats just a fact in any business no matter what the product being sold. I believe there are a number of them anyways that will not try HDH because they know in their own minds that they are not HDH quality and they fear(justly so) not making any money if they raise their rates.

Back to Robins point though. Despite what your preference is, LDL or HDH, everyone who hobbies in Montreal should be able to find someone who makes them very satisfied in whatever price range they can afford. Truly a golden age in a great city.
Abe