The validity of political discussion in 2025

[urquell]

Political discussion these days doesn't revolve around a thoughtful examination of party platforms or in the benefits of particular party issues, their implementation or the long term benefits/consequences of such, to the extent that they ever did in times past. In current times political discussion revolves around the people at either the left or right extreme end of the political spectrum screaming and yelling at each other nonsensically and as loud as they can, completely ignoring any thoughtful and consequential discussion of issues, instead calling each other names and assigning guilt, all of which results in no lasting useful cooperation or even a single person's mind being changed. In the meantime the center hunkers down, covers their ears and remains silent, just hoping the screaming will stop so they can get a decent night's sleep.

Change my mind.

 

[Fradi]

Change my mind.

Can’t
I agree. The most untrustworthy person today is a politician.

 

[Zero_Six]

No need to change your mind.
Social media has ruined us. Everyone's an expert now because they saw a 30 second clip that "felt true" when they were doom-scrolling. It's only going to get worse with AI.

 

[urquell]

The silence here over two days speaks volumes. So, if we take silence as assent to the premise that nobody's mind is ever going to be changed in a forum like this one, then is there any point to having this or any other forum for political discussion? Or is the point simply to have a place to vent and that the fun comes in arguing for argument's sake? Is that really where we've landed now?

 

[Zero_Six]

The silence here over two days speaks volumes. So, if we take silence as assent to the premise that nobody's mind is ever going to be changed in a forum like this one, then is there any point to having this or any other forum for political discussion? Or is the point simply to have a place to vent and that the fun comes in arguing for argument's sake? Is that really where we've landed now?

Sadly, yes I think so. I've been online since 1994 or so. I've had phases where I would debate people a bunch. I can't recall any situations where minds were changed. You're lucky if insults can be avoided and it ends with "guess we'll have to agree to disagree". If anything, the biggest influence social media has is to push people towards hate. It's intentional IMO.

The billionaires want us divided. They want us blaming anyone else instead of them. Musk didn't buy twitter cause he wanted free speech for all. He bought it because it's a great propaganda tool. Keep the masses fighting among themselves and they wont even notice as the rich get richer, the poor get poorer and the middle class disappears.

 

[Halloween Mike]

Personally what i find odd is that so many peoples follow a "mold". For instance if you are a conservative, you have to follow certain things and can't detract from these and if you are a liberal, you need to be for everything on that side as well. While i am here in between with a ton of different views over different subjects on various degrees.

For instance i am against guns and the 2nd ammendemant so right away some conservative wouldn't like me. I am against mass immigration and i am of "protectionism" toward Quebec, so there i alienate Liberals and their "multuculturalism" agenda. I am for abortions and women choices, but i do think its not a "free get out of jail card" either and its not normal a woman had 6 abortions... Probably alienate both side there.

And then the "LGBTQ" subject. My views are litterally rocky mountains lol. I would once again alienate both sides because the far right conservative think homosexuality is a "sin" and on the other side you have the blue hair nose ring far left that if you don't agree 100% on everything LGBTQ you are not an "ally" and therefore you are the ennemy. But me im like in the middle... I don't care if someone is gay or bi or whatever. What you do in your bedroom is none of my business, but also im tired of having Hollywood shove "representation" in just about everything ad neauseum. One "cake exemple" would be in Dragon Age the Veilguard when an NPC start to lecture us on pronouns and such and despite being an RPG you have no choice of answers that reflect a different view than what the creator believe.

I could go on and on.

Oh and lets not forget the political parties. It always baffle me when i see peoples are rally and being super supporters. Dude... i never agreed fully with a politician in my life. Even during Covid when i was behind Duhaime because he was the only one against the exageration, still i didn't agreed with him on climate AT ALL.

Heck i am a climate change "believer" or whatever you want to call it, and i do my part to pollute the less possible, but at same time i find it mind bogling that they want to force Electric Cars on peoples when not only the tech is not as good yet, cost a lot more, and the simply fact that a car going "zzzzzzz" will never replace the sound of a muscle car.

At the end i don't follow a "line" per say. I have my own opinions and i adhere to what i think is the most rational thing.

 

[TheJames101]

The silence here over two days speaks volumes. So, if we take silence as assent to the premise that nobody's mind is ever going to be changed in a forum like this one, then is there any point to having this or any other forum for political discussion? Or is the point simply to have a place to vent and that the fun comes in arguing for argument's sake? Is that really where we've landed now?

This forum is the tiniest of microcosms (and a place of questionable virtue in some cases lol). Until those in power and those with influence start preaching a message of peace and unity, there will be no pathway to it. I used to believe that most people were at least somewhat intelligent. But the last 10 years has really changed my mind in this regard... I now realize that a very significant portion of any given population is actually relatively dumb, and will believe whatever those in charge (or those who are charismatic enough) tell them, or are prone to weird reactionary/conspiracy thinking without legitimate evidence. Change has to happen at the top. It may not need to start at the top... but it needs to be solidified there for any actual positive change to happen.

 

[urquell]

Personally what i find odd is that so many peoples follow a "mold". For instance if you are a conservative, you have to follow certain things and can't detract from these and if you are a liberal, you need to be for everything on that side as well. While i am here in between with a ton of different views over different subjects on various degrees.

For instance i am against guns and the 2nd ammendemant so right away some conservative wouldn't like me. I am against mass immigration and i am of "protectionism" toward Quebec, so there i alienate Liberals and their "multuculturalism" agenda. I am for abortions and women choices, but i do think its not a "free get out of jail card" either and its not normal a woman had 6 abortions... Probably alienate both side there.

And then the "LGBTQ" subject. My views are litterally rocky mountains lol. I would once again alienate both sides because the far right conservative think homosexuality is a "sin" and on the other side you have the blue hair nose ring far left that if you don't agree 100% on everything LGBTQ you are not an "ally" and therefore you are the ennemy. But me im like in the middle... I don't care if someone is gay or bi or whatever. What you do in your bedroom is none of my business, but also im tired of having Hollywood shove "representation" in just about everything ad neauseum. One "cake exemple" would be in Dragon Age the Veilguard when an NPC start to lecture us on pronouns and such and despite being an RPG you have no choice of answers that reflect a different view than what the creator believe.

I could go on and on.

Oh and lets not forget the political parties. It always baffle me when i see peoples are rally and being super supporters. Dude... i never agreed fully with a politician in my life. Even during Covid when i was behind Duhaime because he was the only one against the exageration, still i didn't agreed with him on climate AT ALL.

Heck i am a climate change "believer" or whatever you want to call it, and i do my part to pollute the less possible, but at same time i find it mind bogling that they want to force Electric Cars on peoples when not only the tech is not as good yet, cost a lot more, and the simply fact that a car going "zzzzzzz" will never replace the sound of a muscle car.

At the end i don't follow a "line" per say. I have my own opinions and i adhere to what i think is the most rational thing.

You are a centrist. It's not that hard to define.

Good for you for being able to look at all sides and see the merits of each

 

[Zero_Six]

Personally what i find odd is that so many peoples follow a "mold". For instance if you are a conservative, you have to follow certain things and can't detract from these and if you are a liberal, you need to be for everything on that side as well. While i am here in between with a ton of different views over different subjects on various degrees.

For instance i am against guns and the 2nd ammendemant so right away some conservative wouldn't like me. I am against mass immigration and i am of "protectionism" toward Quebec, so there i alienate Liberals and their "multuculturalism" agenda. I am for abortions and women choices, but i do think its not a "free get out of jail card" either and its not normal a woman had 6 abortions... Probably alienate both side there.

And then the "LGBTQ" subject. My views are litterally rocky mountains lol. I would once again alienate both sides because the far right conservative think homosexuality is a "sin" and on the other side you have the blue hair nose ring far left that if you don't agree 100% on everything LGBTQ you are not an "ally" and therefore you are the ennemy. But me im like in the middle... I don't care if someone is gay or bi or whatever. What you do in your bedroom is none of my business, but also im tired of having Hollywood shove "representation" in just about everything ad neauseum. One "cake exemple" would be in Dragon Age the Veilguard when an NPC start to lecture us on pronouns and such and despite being an RPG you have no choice of answers that reflect a different view than what the creator believe.

I could go on and on.

Oh and lets not forget the political parties. It always baffle me when i see peoples are rally and being super supporters. Dude... i never agreed fully with a politician in my life. Even during Covid when i was behind Duhaime because he was the only one against the exageration, still i didn't agreed with him on climate AT ALL.

Heck i am a climate change "believer" or whatever you want to call it, and i do my part to pollute the less possible, but at same time i find it mind bogling that they want to force Electric Cars on peoples when not only the tech is not as good yet, cost a lot more, and the simply fact that a car going "zzzzzzz" will never replace the sound of a muscle car.

At the end i don't follow a "line" per say. I have my own opinions and i adhere to what i think is the most rational thing.

This is why America only has two political parties. We have a few more options in Canada, but we're still basically stuck deciding between what condiment we want on our shit sandwich.

I would disagree on the Hollywood LGBT representation thing. Hollywood is a business. 20-30 years ago, LGBT characters would drive away viewers. Unless of course they were the butt of jokes or turned out to be the bad guy. Public opinion has changed though and Hollywood has found that including a couple gay people attracts more viewers than it drives away. It all comes down to the money. Has little to do with politics.

Amazing how some people treat a politician like some sort of savior. Many people, great people are saying “When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and waving the cross.” I could include pics of Trump making out with the flag or pretending to be a Christian, but I don't want to sully this forum with his ugly face. If Trump wasn't running as a Republican, the Christian's would be declaring him the anti-christ.

 

[urquell]

Actually, pretty much everything all of you guys said is true, and thanks for chiming in. I wasn't really homing in on what's wrong with the political system though, because there's too much and it would take years for any of us to even get partway through it. I was more kind of referring to the people, and why do they come to a forum like this (this is a pretty Mickey Mouse forum for politics if we're being honest) if they know that no minds are going to be changed and no real substantive and constructive dialogue is going to be exchanged. It seems pretty obvious to me at this point that people come into this forum simply because they want to have an argument. KInd of like the Monty Python sketch. lol. The sole purpose and joy is to come in and have an adversarial discussion with whoever, rile them up, yell at them, and have a good time arguing and assigning blame. I think that the argument itself is what draws people, not the content. The content is just a pretext to have an argument. What do you guys think? Possibility?

 

[Fradi]

I think people like to hear themselves talk and especially to hear the clapping after.
This is why most take part in these political arguments as I won’t call them discussions because people don’t change their mind or even try to understand what the other person is saying.
Totally useless unless you treat it as a form of entertainment or comedy.

Some get off on venting and arguing, others in finding someone who agrees with them and some are just basically trolling and playing games with setting people up against each other and then laughing at the ensuing arguments and stupidity.

All of it is totally useless anyway nothing being said here or any other forum is going to change anything.

 

[urquell]

I think people like to hear themselves talk and especially to hear the clapping after.
This is why most take part in these political arguments as I won’t call them discussions because people don’t change their mind or even try to understand what the other person is saying.
Totally useless unless you treat it as a form of entertainment or comedy.

Some get off on venting and arguing, others in finding someone who agrees with them and some are just basically trolling and playing games with setting people up against each other and then laughing at the ensuing arguments and stupidity.

All of it is totally useless anyway nothing being said here or any other forum is going to change anything.

Yep, that's pretty much what I think too. That's also why I don't usually post here in the politics forum. After a certain point you realize that you come looking for one thing and end up just banging your head against the wall trying to communicate with those who have no wish whatsoever to communicate in a 2 way discussion. Since it's pointless why bother?

 

[Zero_Six]

Actually, pretty much everything all of you guys said is true, and thanks for chiming in. I wasn't really homing in on what's wrong with the political system though, because there's too much and it would take years for any of us to even get partway through it. I was more kind of referring to the people, and why do they come to a forum like this (this is a pretty Mickey Mouse forum for politics if we're being honest) if they know that no minds are going to be changed and no real substantive and constructive dialogue is going to be exchanged. It seems pretty obvious to me at this point that people come into this forum simply because they want to have an argument. KInd of like the Monty Python sketch. lol. The sole purpose and joy is to come in and have an adversarial discussion with whoever, rile them up, yell at them, and have a good time arguing and assigning blame. I think that the argument itself is what draws people, not the content. The content is just a pretext to have an argument. What do you guys think? Possibility?

Never underestimate the power of fake internet points. Did my comment get more likes than theirs? I WIN!!!! I am so smart! SMRT!

I think part of it is the same reason this forum exists in the first place. I have a few close friends/family I can discuss politics with but we're mostly on the same page. I'm not about to debate politics with a co-worker, just as I'm not going to discuss seeing escorts. I'm somewhat anonymous here but we're a small community. Unlike reddit, I have a vague idea of who I'm chatting with and what I can expect.

Like most people, I don't really have a "third" place anymore. I'm at home, work, and that's about it for the most part. People used to get out of the house and go to their "home away from home" (usually a bar or cafe) where they would discuss this stuff. The internet and covid kind of put an end to that for many people.

I have said that no one's mind is getting changed, but I still hold out hope that I might nudge someone a bit in my direction.

 

[urquell]

Never underestimate the power of fake internet points. Did my comment get more likes than theirs? I WIN!!!! I am so smart! SMRT!

I think part of it is the same reason this forum exists in the first place. I have a few close friends/family I can discuss politics with but we're mostly on the same page. I'm not about to debate politics with a co-worker, just as I'm not going to discuss seeing escorts. I'm somewhat anonymous here but we're a small community. Unlike reddit, I have a vague idea of who I'm chatting with and what I can expect.

Like most people, I don't really have a "third" place anymore. I'm at home, work, and that's about it for the most part. People used to get out of the house and go to their "home away from home" (usually a bar or cafe) where they would discuss this stuff. The internet and covid kind of put an end to that for many people.

I have said that no one's mind is getting changed, but I still hold out hope that I might nudge someone a bit in my direction.

I admire your optimism!