The weapons that kill.

[sene5hos]

Yesterday in Michigan was the 651st mass murder.

Can we do something?

 

[anon_vlad]

Yesterday in Michigan was the 651st mass murder.

Can we do something?

No, but we can offer thoughts and prayers, remember that people kill people, not guns and realize that changing laws only affects honest, patriotic gun owners.

I met someone recently who, after spending her first twenty years in Columbia and her next two in the US, emigrated to Canada as she was scared to live in the US.

 

[Fradi]

Why any honest patriotic law abiding citizen needs to own a semi automatic killing machine is beyond me.
Guess he needs to kill 1,000 deer in a minute, meat for the whole hungry neighbourhood.
Yep thoughts and prayers will help a lot, gun control probably a bit more.

 

[sene5hos]

We must also think of families, friends, and all those who will be affected by these killings.

The side effects are endless.

 

[Womaniser]

No, but we can offer thoughts and prayers, remember that people kill people, not guns and realize that changing laws only affects honest, patriotic gun owners.

I met someone recently who, after spending her first twenty years in Columbia and her next two in the US, emigrated to Canada as she was scared to live in the US.

I agree with you that people kill people.
I don't think that irresponsables people should posses firearms.
The last mass shooting that happenned in Oxford looks like irresponsable storage of a handgun and ammunition.

 

[Womaniser]

I agree with you that people kill people.
I don't think that irresponsables people should posses firearms.
The last mass shooting that happenned in Oxford looks like irresponsable storage of a handgun and ammunition.

I suppose that law enforcement have investigated at the killer parents house.
I don't know if in Michigan there are rules for firearms and ammo storage.
If the firearm and ammo were stored negligently, there will probably be criminal charges.
And the victims families will sue the killer parents.

 

[CaptRenault]

Murder and shootings are a serious crime problem in the U.S. and mass murder and shootings are a particularly sensationalistic aspect of the murder and shooting problem. Here are some interesting facts about the problem:

Black Lives Murdered - Taki's Magazine

Although the media talks about mass shootings all the time, few have ever thought about the two kinds.

www.takimag.com

As the evidence continues to mount that 2020’s record growth in murders was mostly due to “BLM” meaning, in practice, Black Lives Murdered, it’s worth reviewing one of the more subtle reasons why so many people can’t think clearly about America’s murder problem.

Besides the obvious partisan, moralistic, and antiwhite racist causes for why numerous people can’t incorporate into their worldview the important fact that blacks, who make up 13.4% of the population, commit the majority of murders (blacks were 55.9 percent of known murder offenders in the FBI’s 2019 statistics), one particular cause of brain fog involves the category of “mass shootings.”

Mass shootings are followed by the media, so you don’t have to wait around for the FBI to announce the official murder stats next September. Thus, they are useful in tracking what is happening on America’s streets in near real time.

Mass shootings spiked upward spectacularly from late May onward, providing an accurate leading indicator that the media-declared Racial Reckoning was getting a huge number of blacks murdered after George Floyd’s fentanyl-assisted death on Memorial Day. As I reported in early September, in June through August, the number of mass-shooting incidents was 72 percent higher in 2020 than in 2019.

But if you are the kind of smugly cultured person who avoids watching if-it-bleeds-it-leads local news, the only murders you hear about on the carefully curated national news are likely to be mass shootings. And most of the mass shooters you will hear about from NPR are likely to be white men. And, overwhelmingly, the mass shooters whose names become bywords for villainy in the prestige press and echo down through the decades, such as Dylann Roof, are white men. Hence, tens of millions believe that white men are the main murderers.


But when relatively objective sources, such as Mass-Shootings.info, Gun Violence Archive, and Wikipedia, try to make up lists of mass shootings using the rule that four or more victims, whether killed or wounded, equals a mass shooting, they wind up with something that looks quite different: lists dominated by the sheer quantity of black-committed mass shootings. For example, Mass-Shootings.info reports that 73 percent of 2020’s mass shooters who have been charged are black. (Due to low clearance rates in black neighborhoods, the real percentage is likely even higher.)

Even if you try to be honest, it’s still easy to become confused because there are two fundamentally different types of mass shootings: the ones in which there are more killed than wounded versus the ones in which there are more wounded than killed. Although the media talks about mass shootings all the time, few have ever thought about the two kinds. But this awareness is useful for understanding that the murder surge of 2020 was due in large part to black exuberance as The Establishment declared the cops to be the official Bad Guys.

Mass murders in which at least four people were killed by gunfire dropped from 31 in 2019 to 20 in 2020, according to Gun Violence Archive. But mass shootings in which at least four were hit by bullets, whether killed or wounded, grew from 417 to 612, an increase of 47 percent. Total gun murders increased 31 percent: still a record, but less than the growth in mass shootings, which suggests that the canonization of George Floyd unleashed a lot of inaccurate black-on-black party shootings.

To illustrate the two types of mass shootings, I went to Wikipedia’s list of mass shootings in 2020 and sorted the cases, first in order of most deaths and second in order of most total victims. I then delved in depth into newspaper accounts of the 11 incidents in 2020 in which at least five people were shot dead (including the perpetrator killing himself or herself) and the 15 incidents in which at least 10 people were struck by bullets...

 

[Womaniser]

I suppose that law enforcement have investigated at the killer parents house.
I don't know if in Michigan there are rules for firearms and ammo storage.
If the firearm and ammo were stored negligently, there will probably be criminal charges.
And the victims families will sue the killer parents.

I read on abc News that there is no Michigan law that requires gun owners keep weaponslocked away from children.
I find this unbelievable in the 21st Century.
Perhaps normal in the 19t th Century.
Just over half of U.S. states have child access prevention laws related to guns.
You should expect that in under developped country.

 

[Womaniser]

I read on abc News that there is no Michigan law that requires gun owners keep weaponslocked away from children.
I find this unbelievable in the 21st Century.
Perhaps normal in the 19t th Century.
Just over half of U.S. states have child access prevention laws related to guns.
You should expect that in under developped country.

Today, the Oakland County Prosecutor charged the 15 years old killer parents on involuntary manslaughter in Oxford Michigan.

 

[CaptRenault]

Speaking of "weapons that kill"...knives also kill. When are we going to rid the world of knives?

Gang member arrested in Columbia student Davide Giri’s fatal stabbing, attack on tourist

Columbia student Davide Giri is dead and another man injured in a pair of stabbings near the Manhattan campus Thursday night, according to officials.

nypost.com

A gang member with a lengthy rap sheet fatally stabbed a Columbia University student, injured a tourist and threatened another man in an unprovoked knife frenzy near the Manhattan campus Thursday night, police said.

The terrifying 15-minute stabbing spree started when Columbia grad student Davide Giri, 30, was knifed in the stomach in Morningside Park just before 11 p.m., police sources told The Post Friday.

Giri stumbled out of the park and collapsed near the corner of West 123rd Street and Amsterdam Avenue, where he was found by cops. He was pronounced dead at Mount Sinai-Saint Luke’s Hospital.

The second victim — a 27-year-old Italian tourist who had only arrived in the city a day earlier — was found with stab wounds to the torso at West 110th Street and Cathedral Parkway 15 minutes later, law-enforcement sources said.

Witnesses told cops the suspect had approached the male victim from behind and knifed him in the back before fleeing, sources said. The tourist was taken to the same hospital as Giri in a stable condition.

As cops were canvassing the area, a third man said the suspect had just threatened him with a knife in nearby Central Park.

The third victim, who wasn’t injured, went with cops and identified the knife-wielding suspect, sources said.

The suspect, who was arrested inside the park but has not yet been charged, is allegedly part of the Bloods gang off-shoot, Every Body Killas, according to sources...

 

[Womaniser]

Speaking of "weapons that kill"...knives also kill. When are we going to rid the world of knives?

Gang member arrested in Columbia student Davide Giri’s fatal stabbing, attack on tourist

Columbia student Davide Giri is dead and another man injured in a pair of stabbings near the Manhattan campus Thursday night, according to officials.

nypost.com

You're right. Many others objects kill as well like pickup trucks and utility vans (Downtown Toronto), delivery trucks (Nice, France).
I am far from anti-guns myself, I practice Sport shooting with all firearms legal where I live.
But firearms storage safety can prevent killing as it happenned in Oxford.
I don't think a 15 years old should have access freely to handguns and assault rifles.

 

[Carmine Falcone]

Speaking of "weapons that kill"...knives also kill. When are we going to rid the world of knives?

Gang member arrested in Columbia student Davide Giri’s fatal stabbing, attack on tourist

Columbia student Davide Giri is dead and another man injured in a pair of stabbings near the Manhattan campus Thursday night, according to officials.

nypost.com

We can't ban every conceivable weapon. The aggressor always has the advantage of choosing when to attack with either a knife, baseball bat or even tire iron. What none of those weapons can't do that a gun can is kill multiple people. The loser gang member stabbed two people and killed one. The kid in the Michigan high school shooting injured eight and took four lives in the span of less than a minute. Look at mass shooting after shooting and it's the same every time: you can inflict a lot of harm in a short time with a gun than you could with any weapon that requires you to be right near your intended victim.

I'm not anti-gun. But since you mentioned getting rid of X weapon, getting rid of guns is the about the only way we end this random gun violence. Of course that's easier said than done because there is neither political will for that (even among Democrats) and we "only" have more than 300,000,000 guns circulating the country already with more bought each day. Background checks or banning certain weapons only do so much. A background check wouldn't have stopped this particular shooting (or most shootings save Dylan Roof) because the gun was legally bought. Also focusing on say, AR-15s, misses the fact that handguns are used far more often in crimes than AR-15s. In addition, the distinction is little between what damage a handgun can inflict when compared to an AR-15. For example, the Virginia Tech shooter killed 32 people with two handguns, which was less than the 26 killed with an AR-15 in Newtown. The takeaway is any semi-automatic gun can kill plenty people in a short time.

 

[IamNY]

Why any honest patriotic law abiding citizen needs to own a semi automatic killing machine is beyond me.
Guess he needs to kill 1,000 deer in a minute, meat for the whole hungry neighbourhood.
Yep thoughts and prayers will help a lot, gun control probably a bit more.

A patriotic law abiding citizen has the right to bear arms, it's in the constitution. The person who used this semi automatic killing machine is not one of them. Someone who does this has got serious issues and is a piece of shit and should be treated as such. I tend to agree with your opinion with regards to having to kill 1,000 deer in a minute. For me, growing up near NYC my opinion on firearms are very different than that of someone who has been around them all their life for hunting, competition, protection, etc. So it's very easy for me to not be comfortable around firearms and also to feel negatively about them. But I tend to believe that those who choose to go on a shooting rampage is more about the US failing the people in need of help that are suffering from mental illness. Background checks, licensing, etc. are all things that can help keep weapons out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. Sadly, this shooting in Michigan was inevitable because the person doing the shooting was gonna find a weapon to kill one way or another.

Why any patriotic law abiding citizen needs to own an SUV killing machine is beyond me when a small hybrid fuel efficient car would work just as well. The problem is the person driving the car, not the car they are driving IMHO.

Police identify the driver they say plowed into a Waukesha Christmas parade, leaving 5 dead and 48 injured | CNN

Authorities in Wisconsin have identified the driver of a red SUV who they say intentionally drove his SUV through barricades and into a crowd celebrating the Waukesha Christmas parade.

www.cnn.com

 

[Fradi]

^^^^^
It may be in the constitution but the constitution does not make gun control illegal and it doesn’t say that you cannot limit what kind of guns can be made available and what limitations can be put on obtaining one.
In my mind there is no reason anybody should own an assault rifle capable of killing hundreds of people within minutes.
It is far too easy to obtain a weapon and to conceal it and makes it very easy and convenient for any lunatic to use it to kill or settle an argument.
The majority of murders and certainly mass murders are not done with pick up trucks, SUV, but with assault rifles.

Undoubtedly it is not the law abiding citizen but the lunatic and mentally deranged or sick that are committing these mass killings and unfortunately even here in Montreal anybody that wants to own a hand gun or basically any type of gun is able to get one.
I was asked one time to make silencers by a bar tender because he would be able to make good business with them. Guns were no problem he said but silencers were hard to come by.
They are relatively easy to make if you have access to a lathe and other metal forming equipment and blue prints are readily available.
Needless to say I refused I hate guns and want nothing to do with them.

 

[IamNY]

^^^^^
It may be in the constitution but the constitution does not make gun control illegal and it doesn’t say that you cannot limit what kind of guns can be made available and what limitations can be put on obtaining one.
In my mind there is no reason anybody should own an assault rifle capable of killing hundreds of people within minutes.
It is far too easy to obtain a weapon and to conceal it and makes it very easy and convenient for any lunatic to use it to kill or settle an argument.
The majority of murders and certainly mass murders are not done with pick up trucks, SUV, but with assault rifles.

Undoubtedly it is not the law abiding citizen but the lunatic and mentally deranged or sick that are committing these mass killings and unfortunately even here in Montreal anybody that wants to own a hand gun or basically any type of gun is able to get one.
I was asked one time to make silencers by a bar tender because he would be able to make good business with them. Guns were no problem he said but silencers were hard to come by.
They are relatively easy to make if you have access to a lathe and other metal forming equipment and blue prints are readily available.
Needless to say I refused I hate guns and want nothing to do with them.

More gun control is only going to make mentally ill people find different ways to murder people, like driving an SUV into a parade. It's like putting a band aide on a gunshot wound, it just wont work. We need to help mentally ill people before they get to the point of murdering someone. We aren't that far apart on this issue, I'm just leaning more towards fixing the problem instead of regulating the weapons they choose. But this is a huge problem.

The majority of what is killing Americans is drugs. While these mass shootings get the all the media coverage, hence why this thread was probably even started, the vast majority of gun violence is suicide. I'm not downplaying the importance of addressing this issue, but I feel the problem is more about the person doing the shooting instead of the weapon they choose. But I'm sure we can both agree that the world would be a better place if this never happened again.

 

[Fradi]

^^^^^^

I agree with a lot of what you are saying.
My point is simply make it as difficult as possible for people to obtain guns and make it impossible for any civilian to legally own an assault rifle capable of killing hundreds of people within minutes. This type of weapon is for military use it is designed to kill people not for anything else.
Will this stop all murders and violence for sure not but it will certainly limit mass slaughter like the one in Vegas.

 

[Carmine Falcone]

Walloo, the mentally ill aren't the ones doing most of the killing. Shootings during the commission of a crime like drugs or gang activity is one obvious one and those people don't have mental problems.

But an overlooked one are people who have no business owning a gun because they lack self control or have anger issues. For each person that owns a gun for genuine self defense, there are also people who are bolder and more reckless because they have a gun. For example, there are many highway shootings every year from road rage. The 6 year old that was shot and killed on a California highway in June was hit because his mom flipped off another car that had caught her off. Someone that would shoot at another car because someone flipped them the bird has no business owning a gun. But once again, there's no way for any background check to assess the mental state of a gun owner. All the background check does is ensure a prospective buyer isn't a criminal or diagnosed with a mental health problem that bars gun ownership at the time of purchase (assuming a background check was even involved in the purchase). Background checks have the same pitfall when someone buys guns for the express purpose of committing a mass shooting. Even when the mass shooting involves multiple gun purchases like the Vegas shooter buying 33 guns in one year, no red flags are raised because of the lax rules.

So if we can't Minority Report the gun owner to determine what crime they intend to commit with the gun they're buying, the next best thing is doing what Fradi said and limit ability to get a gun. The 2nd Amendment isn't what's stopping action. Even with the 2nd Amendment, most people can't own a fully automatic gun (unless you're a dealer) or rocket launcher. So if there was political will, we can curtail gun ownership like Australia did if we wanted to; we don't want to.

 

[Womaniser]

Walloo, the mentally ill aren't the ones doing most of the killing. Shootings during the commission of a crime like drugs or gang activity is one obvious one and those people don't have mental problems.

But an overlooked one are people who have no business owning a gun because they lack self control or have anger issues. For each person that owns a gun for genuine self defense, there are also people who are bolder and more reckless because they have a gun. For example, there are many highway shootings every year from road rage. The 6 year old that was shot and killed on a California highway in June was hit because his mom flipped off another car that had caught her off. Someone that would shoot at another car because someone flipped them the bird has no business owning a gun. But once again, there's no way for any background check to assess the mental state of a gun owner. All the background check does is ensure a prospective buyer isn't a criminal or diagnosed with a mental health problem that bars gun ownership at the time of purchase (assuming a background check was even involved in the purchase). Background checks have the same pitfall when someone buys guns for the express purpose of committing a mass shooting. Even when the mass shooting involves multiple gun purchases like the Vegas shooter buying 33 guns in one year, no red flags are raised because of the lax rules.

So if we can't Minority Report the gun owner to determine what crime they intend to commit with the gun they're buying, the next best thing is doing what Fradi said and limit ability to get a gun. The 2nd Amendment isn't what's stopping action. Even with the 2nd Amendment, most people can't own a fully automatic gun (unless you're a dealer) or rocket launcher. So if there was political will, we can curtail gun ownership like Australia did if we wanted to; we don't want to.

Thomas Massie, GOP member of the Congress in Kentucky posted a photo of his 7 family members with their assault weapons. What does it say of the GOP and white american families ?
Preparing for a civil war ?

 

[arrowdec]

In this case, more laws would not have averted this tragedy. In the USA it is federally illegal for someone under 18 have a handgun period. The parents must be held responsible for this entire event.

Also worthy of note regarding firearms; all of them, even a "hunting rifle" are equally capable of being used in mass murder. For example, the University of Texas tower shooting, with some 10-11 victims dying from the murderer's R700 bolt action rifle. Or to use a Canadian example, the Polytechnic massacre where the murderer had botched his Mini-14 in a failed full auto conversion turning it into a straight pull action.

Semi-automatics are a bizarre focus by media because they look scary and appear similar to assault rifles (fully automatic) in spite of the much greater damage caused by handguns.

Since 1995, in Canada it is illegal to own any firearm unless you go through the vetting, mild education, and licensing process of the RCMP firearms office. This has reduced firearm total deaths caused by legal owners, and lost/straw purchased firearms from legal owners, to a near statistical irrelevance. Such a system might work well in the USA if the constitution wouldn't prevent it.

 

[Carmine Falcone]

Preparing for a civil war ?

They've (GOP voters and representatives) have been using the "civil war" language or intimations of violence in the last few years.
-MTG supported a FB post calling for execution of Democrats

-Some halfwit baseball umpire threatened "CIVAL WAR" over Trump's first impeachment (because once again, Trump supporters really are the best idiots. He couldn't even nail a measly five letter word)

-Madison Cawthorn warned of "bloodshed" over the Big Lie.

Tout va bien aux etats-unis (/sarcasm)

Edit: today is the anniversary of the Polytechnic shooting.