Vince Young turns pro!!!

[Joe.t]

Just announced on ESPN that the best qb in college football(sorry leinart fans) Vince Young will announce by friday that he is turning pro, ahhhhh i am already drooling of a young to moss combination, i will be dancing in the streets of ottawa if my raiders get him , sorry EB but you were wrong on this one.

 

[HonestAbe]

Vick's career has been very disappointing considering all the hoopla about him when he joined the NFL. Atlanta gave away the gold mine

Respectfully disagree here JJ,

I just went over this in the College thread, but just to reiterate quickly, Vick has a 33-21-1 record as a starter and is 2-2 in the playoffs, hardly very disappointing for a team that for years rarely made the playoffs and whose greatest claim to fame was Deion Sanders, a CB. If you are considering "hoopla" when making this judgment then I trust you would agree that the Giants, so far, have been absolutely screwed by the Eli Manning deal seeing as his performance has been dismal and as you say about Atlanta, they gave away the "Gold Mine" to get him.

Vick suffered through this season with nagging injuries that effected his throwing ability and caused him to have a bad year which in turn cost the Falcons a playoff spot since they finished an uncharacteristic 8-8 with Vick at the helm. I'm not saying he is an NFL MVP yet but he will be back next year and play much better healthy. For him to stay that way given Atlanta's coaching staffs tendency to use him as a constant "plan B" whenever something else isn't working is much more troublesome.

 

[picasso]

Vince Young

is a lot better than Vick at a similar stage of their respective career. Young led the NCAA in terms of passing efficiency, and the way he led the Longhorns to the national championship put him head and shoulders above Vick. So this comparison of Vick vs. Young is hogwash. I think Leinart and Young are equal in talent even though their games are different. How they'll do in the NFL will depend on the system they're in and the types of QB coach they'll work under. I happen to think Vick's QB coach sucks. He's the same guy who came over from the SF 49ers where he coached Jeff Garcia with T.O. in the lineup.

 

[Special K]

No question Vince Young turned in two amazing performances in the past two Rose Bowls but mark these words. He will FLOP IN THE NFL!!

 

[HonestAbe]

No question Vince Young turned in two amazing performances in the past two Rose Bowls but mark these words. He will FLOP IN THE NFL!!

If only the Giants could have known this about Eli Manning and he didn't even have any amazing performances in two Rose Bowls.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Abe,

It's way too early to call Eli Manning a flop. He was basically a rookie this year and other than Dan Marino, very few QBs came into the NFL and immediately set it on fire.

As I recall Phil Simms didn't do much his rookie year. Eli has shown enough flashes to make me believe he will eventually be a very good pocket passer. He has all the essentials, he just needs experience.

SK, I can't guarantee that Young will flop. We'll have to wait and see. Could happen, but I would bet on him eventually being at least a very serviceable starter.

 

[HonestAbe]

Abe,

It's way too early to call Eli Manning a flop. He was basically a rookie this year and other than Dan Marino, very few QBs came into the NFL and immediately set it on fire.

As I recall Phil Simms didn't do much his rookie year. Eli has shown enough flashes to make me believe he will eventually be a very good pocket passer. He has all the essentials, he just needs experience.

SK, I can't guarantee that Young will flop. We'll have to wait and see. Could happen, but I would bet on him eventually being at least a very serviceable starter.

I agree with you once again EB,

Thats twice in one 24 hour period. I was actually being a bit facetious because of SK's claim that Young will definitely be a flop, all due respect to SK's right to have his opinion, we both love the Red Sox but differ greatly on analysis of football talent. If we all remember correctly the Giants justified giving up the farm for Eli before he had ever taken an NFL snap and nearly the entire media was telling us he was going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Eli Manning never had a performance like what you saw out of Young the other night and whats more Eli Manning never played on a good enough team in college to even come close to getting a shot at winning a national title. Yet there he was on draft day turning the league upside down on its head with his claim that he would refuse to play for San Diego. All this BS from quite possibly the most overhyped college QB in history and yet the entire league was chomping at the bit for a chance to get him. Young has displayed tremendous humility and maturity in addition to near super human talent but there is still a hard core group of doubters who make him sound like a joke.

I just see this type of claim as fitting right in with what I've been demonstrating and we've been debating in the other thread. That being that so many people are willing to completely ignore everything Young has done in college as any possible indication of how he will perform in the NFL and "guarantee" he will "flop" before he has ever taken a snap in the NFL despite the fact that so many NFL teams have expressed great interest in drafting him. Its amazing to me that anyone could watch this guy play and do what he has done consistently all year and last year as well, beat Leinart out for the title with one of the all time most incredible performances in a championship game, but then claim that Leinart will be great and Young will suck. To me its completely unobjective. Just my opinion.

 

[Joe.t]

HA it is called racisim

Eli Manning and Matt Leinart are 6'5 inch white boys that can throw a football a mile, they will end up in the hall of fame no doubt, meanwhile Vince Young is a 6'5 inch black man who has problems throwing the football and will either flop or end up as a back up.

 

[mtlman2005]

Eli Manning and Matt Leinart are 6'5 inch white boys that can throw a football a mile, they will end up in the hall of fame no doubt, meanwhile Vince Young is a 6'5 inch black man who has problems throwing the football and will either flop or end up as a back up.

After seeing yesterday's game, I kinda doubt Manning (Eli) will end up in the hall of fame! Yes, its only his second season, and his family do have good genes, but after a game like that his confidence will drop and god knows what next season might be like!

 

[picasso]

No question Vince Young turned in two amazing performances in the past two Rose Bowls but mark these words. He will FLOP IN THE NFL!!

SK,

Just curious why you seem so certain that V. Young will flop as a pro?

 

[HonestAbe]

For the record, I don't think for a second that SK is a racist, after all he is a Red Sox fan so it would be kind of ridiculous for him to be racist while Big Papi and Manny are black and he openly expresses his love for these guys as baseball players. He is certainly entitled to his opinion, I just don't think its objective in light of the facts, and to be fair he is not the only person who posted that viewpoint.


Joe,

For a second there you had me going until I saw the and then realized, "Hey, Joe is being humorous!" I've got to be honest with you, I hope the Raiders and everyone else passes on him so Dallas can sign him at 18. I'll be happy to eat my shorts and see another 3 Super Bowl trophies in the Cowboys display case. If your Raiders get him you have every right to be excited. Word I have heard all today and last night on sports talk radio and on the ESPN site is that Steve Mcnair(as EB mentioned earlier) is doing his utmost to make sure the Titans don't pass on him at #3 so he can take him under his wing and show him how to be a great NFL QB.


I don't believe Eli is without talent, just that he hasn't proven anything yet and the Giants gave up a lot for him because he was viewed in such a God like light despite never having played a down of NFL ball. Now that he has a season and a playoff game under his belt he is no closer to any of the great predictions about him from coming true. He is only in his third year however and has a long time to play. Who knows what he will do next year, or five years from now. I just feel that given the similarities between Manning, Leinart, and Young that they all deserve equal consideration and respect. As Joe T. reiterates for me so facetiously , Young is not being given this respect which he has earned every bit as much as Eli or Leinart if not moreso based on his accomplishments thus far. The fact that their is a subconcious bias in favor of white QB's warrants asking these questions about peoples reasons for doubting Young and I believe has provided us with some very interesting findings.

 

[HonestAbe]

The Black QB from Jacksonville you refer to was Byron Leftwich. He just returned from a long stint on the DL and showed his rust against the Pat's as they chose to start him versus his backup who had done a fine job in Leftwichs' absence. His backup was black as well. Two black QB's on one team?! They even won 12 games!

Glad that you picked up on coaching as well, if you want to read about some real bias search ESPN's site or do a google for "The Rooney Rules." NFL's controversial policy which forces teams to give coaching job interviews to qualified minority candidates, despite already being on record as to who they want to hire, in a PR effort to make it seem like the league cares about being fair in its hiring practices. Currently Mike Singletary (HOF Bears LB) is available and being given a cold patronizing shoulder in favor of another(white) candidate who has had head coaching experience but has absolutely sucked at the job. Knock on Singletary is supposedly that he doesn't have any head coaching experience despite the fact that Joe Gibbs and Bill Belichik never held a Head coaching position at any level before being given their first oppurtunity in the NFL, of course they are white so they must have been deemed smart enough to learn on the job.

Had Marino been black theres a good chance he wouldn't have been taken as seriously by recruiters on the college level in the late seventies/early eighties and been given a full boat scholarship to PITT after growing up in the historically QB rich part of Western PA where Montana, Namath, (and Marino) are from. With numbers like his in HS he most likely would have gone to Grambling or another fine black college on full scholarship, MAYBE out of state to a big school. I'm not sure how open PITT would have been to a black quarterback although they did have Heismann winner Tony Dorsett as a RB a few years before Marino's arrival. Dorsett did put them on the map in the mid seventies but it was Marino who took them to title contention although they lost to SMU's Pony Express of Eric Dickerson and Craig James in Marinos' last year of college.

Limbaugh deserved that job as much as Dennis Miller deserved his on MNF. I couldn't believe it took as long as it did for him to get fired due to saying something totally offensive to some particular group, the guy just can't stop himself.

 

[Joe.t]

I would like to add that even the jaguars 3rd string qb is black, so they have three altogether, will we ever see that again in our lifetime on another team?

 

[Doggyluver]

Eli Manning will have to show me a heck of a lot more than he did in the loss this past weekend to convince me that he will ever make it to the Hall of Fame. Unlike his brother he doesn't seem to handle the pressure of a spirited defense. Hopefully he will with some experience show off the family genes but I ma far from convinced that he is Hall of Fame material, yet.

Vince Young, as a college quarterback, he is amazing and has progressed beyond the college level. That being said, I tend to agree that the step from college to the NFL will not be an easy one. Is he a good player, definately ! Does he have what it takes to screw up NFL defences, for a while , probably, long term, NEVER. He will have to become more than a one dimensional football player to excell in the NFL.

 

[picasso]

For the record, I don't think for a second that SK is a racist, after all he is a Red Sox fan so it would be kind of ridiculous for him to be racist while Big Papi and Manny are black and he openly expresses his love for these guys as baseball players. He is certainly entitled to his opinion, I just don't think its objective in light of the facts, and to be fair he is not the only person who posted that viewpoint.

HA,

Are you addressing that to me? If so, did I say or imply anywhere that SK is a racist? You're reading more into my question than there is there. In fairness to SK, why don't you let him answer my question.

 

[HonestAbe]

HA,

Are you addressing that to me? If so, did I say or imply anywhere that SK is a racist? You're reading more into my question than there is there. In fairness to SK, why don't you let him answer my question.

No Picasso,

I was making no referrence to you. SK can certainly answer for himself. I was referring to my own posts here and my belief that more than a few of the comments I have seen on the subject of Vince Young over the past week in several threads have shown that there is some bias based on Vince Young being a very athletic black QB who likes to run when he is pressured out of the pocket and can't find an open WR. I think history shows that the ability to do that is a benefit not a curse.

I just wanted SK to know that I wasn't accusing him or anyone else for that matter of being a racist, rather that MAYBE, just MAYBE, he and some others feel the way they do about Young because of ingrained sterotypes about Black QB's. I don't know because he hasn't yet provided an explanation as to why he was so quick to make the statement that Young would be a "flop." For all we know Young and Leinart may face each other in the Super Bowl one day but ANYTHING could happen with these two guys and no one knows for sure.

All we can do is look at their athletic talents, and their performance at the highest level of competition they have competed, and make an educated GUESS. My point from post 1 has been that judging both of these guys objectively from past performance tells me they will both go high in the draft and will both at the very least get to start for one season since teams don't waste high draft picks to have those players sit out and never play.

Barring injury or criminal activity I have no problem whatsoever saying that we will see Vince Young starting at QB for an NFL team within a couple of years, if not this year, depending on who takes him. Even if he doesn't have a tremendous first season he will in all likelihood be given at least two seasons to show his potential before being relegated to the scrap heap and even then he will likely be picked up by someone and given a second chance.

This is exactly what is going to happen with Eli Manning, and rightfully so since the Giants have invested so much in him. NY can hardly just give up on the guy with less than two full seasons as a starter under his belt. Hopefully for the Giants and their fans he will show marked improvement next year, if he doesn't, we will start hearing talks about trades and choruses of boos at the Meadowlands which you just started hearing at the end of this year from some of the more critical Giants fans.

Anyways I agreethat this isn't really about racism. It is about stereotypes and how to maintain objectivity under these circumstances. Just my opinion.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Young Turns in Sluggish 4.58 40 yard dash time

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2380236

 

[picasso]

Not a big deal

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2380236

That's hardly a predictor of how well he'll do in the NFL.

 

[Nugie]

True, but according to the Wonderlic, the guy is also a world-class idiot.

 

[Nugie]

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/closer/020228.html

In case you think it's perfectly reasonable for someone not to know what the 9th month of the year is...