Will you fly Boeing 737 Max again?

[jalimon]

The more we learn about the production of this plane the scarier it gets.

I could be wrong but from what I know..

The company has blamed a software deficiency (MCAS)... But that software was needed to solve a structural engine design flaw.

We also learned from an ex executive engineer (Ed Pierson) that the production of the plane was disastrous...

Has the company become too big and (ho surprised) to profit oriented?

I am seriously thinking I will make sure to avoid that plane if it ever goes back on the market.

What about you?

Cheers,

p.s. Few years ago Boeing tried to be a bully fucking up Bombardier with the help of the Trumpet... Well well look who's fuck up now... I heard the board of Airbus are still drinking champagne over the whole Bombardier/Boeing saga...

 

[jalimon]

But there is one airport I fly into where the route involves a sudden downward left turn, and I always forget this, and I think it is the rudder moving far left, and I think, Fuck, I am dying with a small positive net worth. Should have bought more sex.

Haha I think the same every time I land at Billy Bishop airport in Toronto. Landing on such a small runway.. over the lake... If it's windy... my god... Part of the reason I hook up with Allegra escort as soon as I reach my hotel!

But on two equal routes, I would pick the non-Max plane.

Me too! The question I am sure I will face is do I take the Max because it's a direct flight to my destination or take a lay over somewhere just to avoid the Max...

 

[Bred Sob]

I am seriously thinking I will make sure to avoid that plane if it ever goes back on the market.

Wise decision, but not nearly enough. Avoid all Boeing planes. Trumpet won't even know what hit him.

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

Rather fly Max than the POS Air Canada Rouge.

 

[Bred Sob]

I think that when Max goes back into operation, it will be the safest plane ever, bar none.

 

[jalimon]

I think that when Max goes back into operation, it will be the safest plane ever, bar none.

But you wont be flying with your idol

https://www.axios.com/trump-tweet-boeing-737-crashes-aa07231b-0b6b-4197-8b3d-47ec283af9ad.html

To bypass the design engine flaw they had to develop yet another software to calibrate the plane. Not good. Here I agree with Trump. This plane is getting too complicated.

A friend of mine is a pilot. He now only pilot Embraer and loves that plane.

 

[Bred Sob]

But you wont be flying with your idol

Hate to disappoint you, but I don't have idols. I do occasionally give in to temptation to tweak dimwits, plead guilty, Your Honor.

 

[jalimon]

But STN is correct, that an airline can do their own seats and butcher an otherwise comfortable plane by adding more seats than the manufacturer had in mind.

Well it's a complete different subject. I simply would not recommand to anyone taller then 5'7'' haha But other then that their price are good, service is no better no worse then many other airlines. And their fleet is composed of 40 airbus (319,320 and the new 321) and 24 boeing 767. So I feel safe

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

Just got fucked by Air Canada again, went to great lengths to not fly Rouge, got an e-mail 3 days ago that my flight got changed from my non Rouge ( stop over in TO ) to a direct flight with Rouge. No entertainment system, can not rent a tablet for movies and no plugins to charge your tablet or phone to use their wifi movies.
Will attempt a partial refund.

 

[Fradi]

^^^^^
Sucks to fly on Benny Hill airlines.


https://dai.ly/xe6hue

 

[jalimon]

STN they offer you a direct flight! I would take a direct flight over a stop anytime. As long as its not on the max

 

[EagerBeaver]

Boeing says, "MCAS is needed not for stability but only to make the MAX feel the same to a pilot as the previous 737 model. The airplane will fly safely with or without MCAS.“

This remains to be seen. The question is whether you want to be one of the guinea pigs who will test the accuracy of this theory.

 

[jalimon]

This remains to be seen. The question is whether you want to be one of the guinea pigs who will test the accuracy of this theory.

After reading a bit more (and reading the 2 article of Patron) and talking to my friend who is a pilot it seems that indeed MCAS was made to make the plane feel like previous model. My friend told me the plane can fly without and test have been made to prove it.

Now why do they want to make the plane feel like previous 737? Simple to avoid having all pilots go back to flight simulator training. Which is very costly...

 

[charmer_]

To bypass the design engine flaw they had to develop yet another software to calibrate the plane. Not good. Here I agree with Trump. This plane is getting too complicated.

That's very scary. It's an outrage that two planes went down over a "software flaw" in the first place. Something that takes away control of the plane from the pilots is mind boggling.

Boeing screwed up big time, and I'm surprised the FAA went along with it. They're as much to blame for this as Boeing (if not more). Patching problems with more software updates is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[Bred Sob]

Something that takes away control of the plane from the pilots is mind boggling.

What do you mean, takes away control from the pilots? Pilots can override MCAS any time, the problem with the two planes that crashed was that the pilots did not know how. It was insufficient training that was responsible, first and foremost. And yes, it was Boeing's fault that it skimped on training.

 

[charmer_]

What do you mean, takes away control from the pilots? Pilots can override MCAS any time, the problem with the two planes that crashed was that the pilots did not know how. It was insufficient training that was responsible, first and foremost. And yes, it was Boeing's fault that it skimped on training.

From Wikipedia:

"It lowers the nose without pilot action when it determines the aircraft is too nose-high, based on input from airspeed, altitude and angle of attack sensors. However, it is susceptible to erroneous activation, as evidenced in the deadly crashes of Lion Air Flight 610 and Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302. The 737 MAX is indefinitely grounded until regulators decide the aircraft is airworthy, pending software and instrumentation updates and revisions to information for flight crews. They may also be required to undergo MCAS training sessions in flight simulators."

Training was an issue too. Boeing had the nerve to charge extra for the training in order to disable the MCAS system. But after those two crashes, they were then forced to include the training for free.

First and foremost though, it's a software issue. If the software had worked the way it was supposed to (instead of auto-correcting the nose of the aircraft when it shouldn't), there wouldn't have been a need to disable the MCAS system in the first place.

 

[Bred Sob]

If the software had worked the way it was supposed to (instead of thinking it needed to autocorrect the nose of the aircraft when it shouldn't), there wouldn't have been a need to disable the MCAS system in the first place.

If I remember correctly, the software did work the way it was supposed to, it was one of those sensors that malfunctioned. At least in of the two crashes, possibly both.

 

[jalimon]

No really like that charmer.

MCAS is not mandatory. The plane can perfectly fly without that software. MCAS was needed in order to calibrate the plane so it would fly as per other 737 planes. Which is important as Boeing did not want to have all pilots go back to flight simulator training. Which is very costly and would have scared away some customer.

My problem now is why take the decision to still improve MCAS instead of training pilot properly and avoid that additional software?

 

[charmer_]

My problem now is why take the decision to still improve MCAS instead of training pilot properly and avoid that additional software?

I guess because of what you suggested: the cost? Even if Boeing foots the entire bill (which they should, given the circumstances) and trains pilots to fly the Boeing 737 without the need for MCAS, there's still the time involved, etc.

Had no idea that MCAS was being used only so it could fly as per the other 737 planes, interesting.

 

[jalimon]

Had no idea that MCAS was being used only so it could fly as per the other 737 planes, interesting.

Interesting or scary? Really I work in IT and all I know is that if you can avoid complexity well avoid it now whatever the cost!!!!