Racism and SPs preferences

Juliana · Sep 21, 2006

Maxima you are making things up !

I dont dislike black clients, I said I understand if a sex worker refuses to see them because they tend to take lots of our time and space without wanting to pay for our extra time.

I have only refused clients who were smely and disgusting to be around and they were all white.

If fact I love the idea of having a black clients because, then I have the illusion that we will have interesting conversations on classe and race, but for my desapointment most blacks are not educated on racial/class/gender politics.

Ideas and the reality can be very very desapointing.

Oh yeah lately I refused a client who were super overweigh because the last time I massage an obese client my massage tabe broke.
I cannot afford to buy a new massage table every time I have morbid obese people therefore, I just explain to them that my massage table has limitations.

EagerBeaver · Sep 21, 2006

Juliana,

When your massage table broke while massaging the morbidly obese client, did he crash to the floor in a big fat heap? Were you on top of him and did you also crash to the floor? I hope nobody got hurt.

rollingstone · Sep 21, 2006

I have to say I would prefer to handle the rejection upfront instead of finding out when its too late. I am about 100lbs overweight and when I mentioned it in an e-mail, I got no reply to confirm/cancel the appointment. I know its not quite the same issue as race and it is something I can control (two months ago I was 150lbs overweight - and hope to fit sometime next year).

Still, my main concern is that SPs who are not upfront are just wasting everyone's time. Had the SP in question just told me this was a deal breaker, I could have spent my time browsing and contacting a different SP instead of waiting for a response. The result is that I find myself looking at a "hit or miss" experience with an angency provider whose boundaries/preferences are unknown until I meet her (reviewers rarley talk about their own physique and whether it was an issue).

jacep · Sep 21, 2006

Maxima said:
So should I understand that SP only see people that they are attracted to?
Does your argument apply to Black people as well? How about caucasians? Or does it only apply to Asians?
... <removed>
Like I said, Mystique has the right to make her decision. She did not give the reason why and she has the right not giving any reason for her refusal. Let's leave it at that. Those who do not want to see her, move on...there are other SPs. Nobody really knows her as a person, nobody knows her value, background, etc. So please do not speculate on whether she is a bigot (How can you be racist to your own race?) or not.

I've seen agency webpages or independant SP webpages that excluded certain ethnic groups. There was one webpage that excluded black people. I'm not black and I don't consider that the webpage wrote it in an appropriate manner. Even though they didn't use the "n" word, I still felt that the way that it was stated on the webpage was not polite. I considered Mystique's reply/statement to be polite.

Would those people who are upset by a SP stating up front in e-mail "sorry but I don't (currently) see ---- clients" prefer it if the SP shows up at the hotel/door and then refuses the client for the same reason?

For me, I've always included a brief description of myself when arranging any date with a SP. However when dealing with an agency, there have been a few times when I felt that the person that I contacted via e-mail or the person that I spoke with on the phone did not relay my description to the SP that I wanted to see.

One independant that I saw about 2 years ago (who has since retired) asked me why I described myself in e-mail when first contacting her and I told her that I wanted to prevent or minimize any uncomfortable situations. My description was just a basic description (height, weight, nationality/ethnicity, and age).

Just because clients are paying Mystique or another SP for her "company", doesn't mean that she has to see everyone who is willing to pay her.

jacep · Sep 21, 2006

JackBauer2 said:
I definitely prefer an upfront attitude... for myself i prefer to choose and know exactly who i will meet...i have also my preferences and respect people than could do the same...
JB2

I agree with you 100%. As long as it is polite, an upfront attitude works for me and I've never been bothered by it (even though sometimes I was a little disappointed). After being disappointed for a few seconds, I basically just look for someone else.

jacep · Sep 21, 2006

Same as a real date

I think that this is somewhat similar to asking someone out on a real date. If I ask someone out on a real date and I know that she is single and not seeing someone and she says "no", as long as she is polite about it, I don't give it much thought and I don't "dwell" on it.

If she says:
"Sorry, you're not my type" or "Sorry but I'm (not) attracted to Asians/Blacks/Whites/Blonds/shortpeople/whatever", even though I am a little disappointed, after a few minutes, I don't think much about it.

All of the "no"'s that I've received when I was on the excluded list have been polite when dealing with SPs as well as when asking someone out on a real date. I believe the reason for this is that I didn't try to change the person's mind once she informed me of her decision or tell off the person once she gave me her decision.

jacep · Sep 21, 2006

Maxima said:
You quoted me so I guess you addressed the above to me. How many time must I say that I agree with you? If you are not agreeing with the following quote of mine, please tell me so I can change it to your liking:

Sorry, I wasn't quoting you because I was disagreeing with you. Based on your posts, we have the same opinion about SPs being able to state their preferences for whatever reason.

I was just pointing out my opinion and saying that in my humble opinion, there is no difference between a SP saying that she doesn't currently see Asian customers or she doesn't currently see Black customers or she doesn't currently see White customers.

Ministry · Sep 21, 2006

Alas! How had my original post spiralled into a debate of racism?! Please know it was not my intention. Having spent the past few years as a lurker i come to realize an imperfection in this manner of idea interchange. In some instances i've notice members of the forum would approach topics with predetermined mindset and disregard what is actually written. I'm afraid my post was such a victim. Many times throughout i asserted i respect Mystique's decision to choose whomever she wishes as clients. I have no quarrel with that. There are many other excellent SPs in Montreal, she certainly isn't the only fish in the sea. What really irked and exasperated me was her choice to alienate just asian males. Members of her own ethnicity! This isn't a declaration that she's either a racist or bigot, but how often does a SP refuse clients solely because they share the same ethnicity? Imagine a caucasian SP refusing appointments with only caucasian men simply because she isn't "comfortable" with them. It doesn't mean she's a racist, but would that not vex you as well? Lastly, this ordeal had taught me one thing, in the future i will always ask a SP "Hi, Are you asian friendly?" before seeking an appointment.

korbel · Sep 22, 2006

Ethnic restrictions

Ministry said:
Well, after reading all the great words that had been said of this fine lady i decided to email her to request an appointment in October. Bad news is she's unavailable until October 16, but the worst news of all is and i quote her; "I am not comfortable receiving any asian/oriental men at the moment...sorry, no exceptions." Amazing! I consider myself a newbie to this hobby so please correct me if i'm wrong. I've only met 2 SPs in the last few years and this is the first time ever i've read a specific ethnicity that a SP won't meet. While i realize and accept it's the lady's exclusive right and privilege to decide whom she meets, but discernment against one's own ethnicity is tragic. Has anyone read from a caucasian SP's bio that she's "uncomfortable" meeting with caucasian men? Must one state one's own ethnicity to a SP before an appointment to ensure a good time for all? I sincerely hope this is just an isolated case because i would hate to see how little we have evolved.

Hello Ministry,

I have met two SPs who refused to meet with Asian men. We did not go into the reasons in any real detail, but one lady was an Asian who said something about cultural attitudes that she did not want to deal with, and she was also worried about the possibility someone she knew might discover her. The other lady was French-Canadian. She said that the Asian men she met would not engage in conversation with her. She found that habit a bit unnerving and after a while she refused to meet with Asian men any more. So regarding these two ladies, your post does not reflect an isolated case completely. Sorry to hear this happened to you.

Good luck,

Korbel

Fat Happy Buddha · Sep 22, 2006

A strange thing...

I'm caucasian, but I've spent about 20 years in total mucking around Asia and I can handle a few of the languages, two of them really well. I've noticed a funny phenomenon whenever I go to an Asian MP in Montreal. If I make my familiarity with the girl's culture and language known to them, about one half of the time it seems to really open them up toward me, but one half of the time they completely stiffen up and are plainly uncomfortable. On a couple occasion girls have actually told me they feel funny because it was like I came from their country.

If I were you, Ministry, I wouldn't worry too much about this incident. I have no doubt that it is not a rare occurance, but a good part of the time it probably has more to do with maintaining privacy and saving face.

jacep · Sep 22, 2006

EagerBeaver said:
BTW, what does the driver do in there? Sit on the toilet and read Asian newspapers?

Why would he have to be reading an Asian newspaper?

EagerBeaver · Sep 22, 2006

jim-ce said:
Why would he have to be reading an Asian newspaper?

Okay! Any newspaper! Sports Illustrated! Playboy! Substitute your own reading choice! I only mentioned that because when I see Asian guys in Chinatown, they are usually reading Asian newspapers.

jacep · Sep 22, 2006

Maxima said:
Please tell me how do you say in a polite way to a black customer who enters your place the following: "Sorry I don't see Black men". How do you say that sentence in a polite way? Please don't use another sentence. Is it a "polite" sentence in itself? How can I, for example, say in a polite way to you: "Sorry, I don't see ugly women, for now"? Is it a "polite" sentence in itself?

For me, polite would be: "Sorry, I currently don't feel comfortable seeing black men..." which is similar to what Mystique wrote about Asians.

In terms of your sentence, IMHO, I wouldn't use the word "ugly" which has a negative implication to it. Even though I've never refused anyone when I've met them at the door (even though sometimes I've wanted to), if I wanted to refuse someone, I would probably just say "I'm sorry but I don't think that it will work between us" or "Sorry, but I was expecting something else based on the receptionist's (or webpage) description".

Fat Happy Buddha · Sep 24, 2006

Big Daddy Cool said:
This is no surprise. HOw do you think I feel when I meet white women who won't date white men, but loves black men? It's frustrating. Myself I'm starting to prefer Asian as I feel that I face to much discrimination from my own kind.

On the reverse I find that many Philapina women prefer white guys which makes me happy becuase I seem to attract many of them.

As for the girl, it's common that they won't see nayone from their ethnic group out of fear of being discovered. Some are hiding their profesion from family and friends and this makes it easier for them.

The same phenomenon also exists among white men. There are many who exclusively date Asian women. If you've ever been to Asia, you will find a lot of very desperate white women because all the men are running around after the local ladies.

You should consider yourself lucky. Filipinas can be really wonderful and gentle women. If for whatever reason you attract a lot of them, I envy you. Make the most of it my friend.

Actually, I've tended to gravitate away from "my own kind" for a long time. I don't know why. I find the Quebecois women incredibly beautiful and I love their style (especially the Uniprix Woman), but if I'm going to go out for some fun, I always head to where there are either Asian or African girls. Not once have I headed to a MP or a SC where I know there are only Caucasian women.

Weird, eh?

Fat Happy Buddha · Sep 24, 2006

A thought...

I was wondering:

If refusing to accept clients of a certain race makes an SP racist, does that mean that refusing clients of a certain sex makes an SP sexist?

If if does, then I renounce here and now my fantasy of becoming a gigolo.

Kaempferrand · Sep 24, 2006

Ministry said:
Well, after reading all the great words that had been said of this fine lady i decided to email her to request an appointment in October. Bad news is she`s unavailable until October 16, but the worst news of all is and i quote her; "I am not comfortable receiving any asian/oriental men at the moment...sorry, no exceptions." Amazing! I consider myself a newbie to this hobby so please correct me if i`m wrong. I`ve only met 2 SPs in the last few years and this is the first time ever i`ve read a specific ethnicity that a SP won`t meet. While i realize and accept it`s the lady`s exclusive right and privilege to decide whom she meets, but discernment against one`s own ethnicity is tragic. Has anyone read from a caucasian SP`s bio that she`s "uncomfortable" meeting with caucasian men? Must one state one`s own ethnicity to a SP before an appointment to ensure a good time for all? I sincerely hope this is just an isolated case because i would hate to see how little we have evolved.

** Thread splitted from Mystique (asian independant SP)......what an experience!
Mod 6 ***

Not really racism. It is more like to make sure when the guy who she meets will not end up to be her brother or her dad. And you all know how fucked up that would be for everyone!

Fat Happy Buddha · Sep 24, 2006

The battle goes on....

Big Daddy Cool said:
Is there racism against your own kind? You bet. There are plenty of white bitches who's date nothing but black men and discriminate against their own and other non blacks. Most of these white bitches that do that tend to go for the trashy 50 Cent, Tu Pac look rather than date a decent guy even if he's black. There are some trashy white whores who like trashy looking whites like Emenm as well, but we can't do anything about it except to move on. Myself after seeing white whore after white whore with these blacks find myself tending to gravate towards Asian women who I find to be more accepting of me and more compatable in class, smarts, values, style and etc.

Funny thing is on couple of occasions I have met black ladies who prefer white guys, because from their experinces the white guys treated them better than black men who were more interested in white whores that liked the gangsta look.

Hi BDC,

I enjoyed your post and want to make two points. First, I noticed that you used the word 'whore' and then applied it three times to white females who date black men, but didn't apply it to the "black ladies who prefer white guys." Are you perhaps not harbouring some lingering resentment against woman of your own race who date outside that race?

My second point it this: It would be a deadly error to regard the 50 Cents and Tupacs as challengers, since they are co-combatants, brothers-in-arms in the war to keep the the male species valid. We men faced many challenges: lesbianism, artificial insemination and cloning, cucumbers, dildos, the energizer bunny. The list is endless. So getting any woman to go out with a man is a victory for us all. Big Daddy, it seems pretty clear that you are going to play a key role in the Asian campaign of this war. It is vital that you succeed because, to be frank, things are not going well on the western front. However, as you've noticed, we've brought in a battalian from the U.S trained Gansta-Corp and they've been working the streets day and night, trying to turn the tide.

So whereever you come across a gansta-type with a his arm around a white lady, feel good about it. The fight goes on.

Remember, during the battle of Manila, it is crucial that you keep your women away from the bananas! And don't forget to take a photo as you raise your pole on Iwo Jima. It will be great for morale back home.

Fat Happy Buddha · Sep 25, 2006

Corleone said:
Sorry, but I could not help masturbating while reading that.
I only went to Asia 8 or 9 times in 3 different countries, but unfortunately, I missed the wild hordes of desperate sex hungry white females.
Please tell us more, or better, PM me (I don't want others to know, after all)!

My experience has been that a lot more western men go to Asia than western women. I'm not talking about tourists, but rather expat professionals or students. The men of course go crazy over the local delights and there are few western men left over for the western women, most of whom are not drawn toward the local men (This is changing).

Alas, Corleone, there are no hordes of sex hungry white females. Their numbers tend to be quite limited.

naughtylady · Sep 26, 2006

More things to ponder...

I know of one SP who refuses to see men of a particular ethnic background because she was attacked many years ago and still has nightmares.

Occasionally when one slips through her screening process, since her fear is real and apparent (she goes pale and starts to sweat) she just excuses herself saying she feels sick and goes back home.

She realises that her fear is beyond rational, but she has yet to completely recover emotionally from her attack. It has nothing to do with racism.

"Why" is not the issue. That her wishes are made clear and respected is. SPs are under no obligation to see any client who wishes to see them.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

elperv · Sep 26, 2006

Wow 4 pages on this

I don't sleep with black girls. I work with black people, have black friends, do buisness with black men, but I don't enjoy sex with black girls ( I'm sure i'd make an exception for Hale Berry or something, but in general, it just isn't my thing )

I'd understand people being upset over not being allowed into a bar, resto or whatever, but this is hella more intimate, and in my opinion, find someone you can have a bit of chemistry with, and forget about the race card. There's plenty of SP's who will see Asians, whites, blacks, east indians, mohawks, cree people and so on.

I think it's good that some SP's are up front about their preferences, and i don't think it's our place to question the why's.

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