Nobody 's talking about Ukraine in here.... Why?

I agree with the last posts...Ive been following very closely the events since before Ukraine was in the news (end of summer 2013)

Even if it sounds counter-intuitive if you look at what is happening right now, my bet is on Russia in the long run..especially with the open support of China and the growing frustration against the US foreign policy in many parts of the globe. The West might get part of Ukraine on their side, but instead of weakening Russia, this conflict was a wake up call that forced them to refocus and forge new alliances.

There is an obvious rebalancing of power away from the west that will continue in the next years/decades, lets all hope that it will be relatively slow and peaceful..

Here is a (very rare) balanced in depth article from the BBC about the context and history of Russia's relationship with the West and some of the reasons why it is so bad now

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30483873

I disagree with your take on the Russian / Ukrainian situation.

Ukrainians are a different ethnicity that has been subjected to Russian and previously Mongolian domination for hundreds of years. During the USSR years, Russians moved into the Ukraine. The Russians and Ukrainians do not co-exist except in a government which has an iron fist, like a communist state, where they have no choice.

So you have a situation where a large minority who are a majority in many key areas and who are ethnically Russians would like to re-unite with Russia. You have the Ukrainians who want independence from Russia, and who have lived through the last years of the USSR, and would not want to go back to a Putin controlled dictatorship (which he is bringing Russia back to). It is not a conflict between the US with European and Russia. It is between the Ukrainians and Russia.

Putin is really orchestrating the conflict to consolidate power and put off any criticism of Russia's continued economic problems because of a poor economy slipping into recession because of a weak oil market. Russia has only 2 major industries - Oil and Defense. The Oil Market is in the dumps. The defense market is heavily criticized by the US because of the customers of Russia are enemies of the US, such as Iran and North Korea. Perhaps the failing of the US after the cold war dissolved was not aiding Russia with developing markets other than their natural resources and defense.

http://www.infoplease.com/country/ukraine.html

daydreamer41 said:

I disagree with your take on the Russian / Ukrainian situation.

Ukrainians are a different ethnicity that has been subjected to Russian and previously Mongolian domination for hundreds of years. During the USSR years, Russians moved into the Ukraine. The Russians and Ukrainians do not co-exist except in a government which has an iron fist, like a communist state, where they have no choice.

So you have a situation where a large minority who are a majority in many key areas and who are ethnically Russians would like to re-unite with Russia. You have the Ukrainians who want independence from Russia, and who have lived through the last years of the USSR, and would not want to go back to a Putin controlled dictatorship (which he is bringing Russia back to). It is not a conflict between the US with European and Russia. It is between the Ukrainians and Russia.

Putin is really orchestrating the conflict to consolidate power and put off any criticism of Russia's continued economic problems because of a poor economy slipping into recession because of a weak oil market. Russia has only 2 major industries - Oil and Defense. The Oil Market is in the dumps. The defense market is heavily criticized by the US because of the customers of Russia are enemies of the US, such as Iran and North Korea. Perhaps the failing of the US after the cold war dissolved was not aiding Russia with developing markets other than their natural resources and defense.

http://www.infoplease.com/country/ukraine.html

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So this large Russian minority has no rights? That's exactly what the lunatic Yatseniuk said. No wonder the Russian speaking majority want to break away in the East. . Do you suggest that they lose their rights? That's what Yatseniuk and his fellow neo Nazis are advocating.

In any case, Russia manufactures things. Unlike the US where they exported most of their manufacturing jobs to China.

Putin has an approval rating of 80%. Compare that with Obama's 30%. French president Hollande has an approval rating of 17%. So I don't think that Putin's legitimacy is in question. Saying that Putin is a dictator means that you've been watching too much CNN, which is a US propaganda machine. They never criticize the US government and toe the government line.

I can agree with some points, except for 2

Here is where we disagree..

daydreamer41 said:

It is not a conflict between the US with European and Russia. It is between the Ukrainians and Russia.

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There has been an open involvement from the U.S. state department to foment a regime change in Ukraine and they dont even try to hide it..
Russia has complained for many, many years about NATO's expansion closer to its borders...In the last 5 to 10 years Russia has gained a lot of influence on the international scene (e.g. Syria, BRICS, Iran, South America) and its stance, like you said, is not always in accordance with the U.S. interests...
NATO wants to contain a resurgent Russia by any means, its not about Ukraine itself, but its strategic position. Nobody has or wants to put in the money to modernize Ukraine, its just to use it as a pawn to contain Russia.

and also:

daydreamer41 said:

Putin controlled dictatorship (which he is bringing Russia back to)

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You would expect some resistance from the population if he was such a tyrant and dictator..yet people love him

wilbur said:

Putin has an approval rating of 80%.

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Then why does Putin have to shut down Facebook pages?

wilbur said:

Saying that Putin is a dictator means that you've been watching too much CNN, which is a US propaganda machine. They never criticize the US government and toe the government line.

Click to expand...

The Communist News Network is a US propaganda machine?

cimgrk said:

Ukrainian chicks are awesome.

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A co-worker of mine is from Bulgaria and he says the same thing, says any male from North America can go there and have sex every night with very good looking women. They are looking for a daddy to take them out of the Ukraine, same goes for Russia.

Sol Tee Nutz said:

A co-worker of mine is from Bulgaria and he says the same thing, says any male from North America can go there and have sex every night with very good looking women. They are looking for a daddy to take them out of the Ukraine, same goes for Russia.

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That's partially true..yes, in most cases they want a way out, but thats about it...because as soon as they get out the divorce rate is 70% in the first 5 years..leaving you heartbroken and in a financial hole.. Then in most cases they will remarry a co-national.

By being a foreigner in Eastern Europe looking to hook up with hot girls your are painting a huge $$$ target on your back. Plus it can get dangerous if you happen to offend the wrong local guys..i've seen it..so I wouldnt recommend it.

Here's something scary:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=51c_1354182951

And about Russian girls it depends: if you are talking about sex with hot Moscow or Saint Petersburg chicks then good luck and I hope your finances can take it because they are ridiculously high maintenance

Believe it or not........

some Americans CAN think for themselves, but they don't post here :


In response to those who took exception with his claims that the Ukrainian crisis involved “outside agitators,” Oliver Stone took to social media to advance his argument, saying that Ukrainians are the victims of a US strategy akin to Cold War 2.0.

This week, Stone stirred a political firestorm with his views on what he believed sparked the Ukrainian crisis, following a private interview with Viktor Yanukovich, the former Ukrainian president who was ousted in the February 2014 coup.

"It seems clear that the so-called ‘shooters’ who killed 14 policemen, wounded some 85 and killed 45 protesting civilians, were outside, third-party agitators,” Stone said, following his four-hour conversation with Yanukovich in Moscow. “Many witnesses, including Yanukovich and police officials, believe these foreign elements were introduced by pro-Western factions – with CIA fingerprints on it.”

According to the American-born filmmaker and writer, Ukraine is just the latest country in a long list to fall prey to “America’s soft power technique called ‘Regime Change 101.’”

Stone’s comments reverberated like an earthquake on both sides of the Ukrainian divide, prompting him to elaborate on his original statement. Stone’s follow-up post began with him explaining that he has no particular sympathy for Yanukovich.

“For those of you angry with my analysis of Ukraine yesterday, please try to understand the bigger picture I’m offering,” he wrote on his Facebook page. “I have no brief for Viktor Yanukovich, he may well be the most corrupt president Ukraine’s ever had. Ukraine has a dramatic history of corruption. That is not my point.”


Whether they know it or not, the Ukrainian civilian population in the middle has suffered greatly from this ideological crusade.

— Oliver Stone (@TheOliverStone) December 31, 2014

However, he went on to argue that there is “ample evidence of pro-Western, third-party interference” in Ukraine, specifically mentioning Victoria Nuland and John McCain, two high-ranking American officials who appeared on the streets of central Kiev at the height of the Maidan showdown between police and protesters.

He also mentioned specific US government organizations, such as USAID, which has been operating in Ukraine since the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the National Endowment for Democracy, which he remarked “apparently organize very well on Facebook and Twitter,” suggesting a possible method of organizing the protesters for an anti-government rally.

Stone asked the question why so many Ukrainian policemen were killed and wounded during the occasionally violent rallies, “Yet no one has investigated this in the new government?”

Indeed, there has been much speculation that the so-called Maidan snipers were working in the pay of those who were trying to orchestrate the protests, and it was their aim to shoot members from both sides to trigger deeper social unrest.

To emphasize his point that the US has been playing games in Ukraine for a long time, Stone made a historical reference to 1949, when Defense Secretary James Forrestal, together with the cooperation of the CIA, created a guerrilla force codenamed ‘Nightingale’ that was comprised of ultra-nationalist Ukrainians.


US involvement w/ Ukraine goes back to 1949 when CIA created a guerrilla army codenamed Nightingale, made up of ultra-nationalist Ukrainians

— Oliver Stone (@TheOliverStone) December 31, 2014

For five years, according to Stone, the CIA was parachuting Ukrainian infiltrators into the country.

Stone implored his audience to see the “big picture,”which is that the United States “has never given up on using Ukraine as a launching pad to the underbelly of the Soviet Union, now a reduced Russia.”

“This Cold War 2.0 policy continues in a most deadly fashion, and whether they know it or not, the Ukrainian civilian population in the middle has suffered greatly from this ideological crusade,” Stone said.

http://rt.com/news/219211-stone-ukraine-us-policy/

http://rt.com/news/218899-stone-kiev-massacre-cia/

Heading to Kyiv soon....yay..!

Comme mon père me disait, il y a 2 sujets que tu dois éviter: la politique et la religion. Ça vient toucher trop les gens, ils deviennent totalement émotifs et perdent leurs rationnels. En général, ça finit toujours en escalade et chicane. Dommage parce que ce sont des sujets qui nous permettrait de grandir comme être humain.

I suggest you to go to Ukraine one day. It is quite interesting country , you know. I had business trip to Kiev. I visited many cool places and went to go to adelle massage parlor where I had massage session. I got a lot of positive impressions and relax a lot. I have plan to visit Ukraine again.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I was in Kiev 2 months ago. A very cool place.Beautiful...nice people. Had quite a few chances for an outcall service through the website (less than 5) for Kiev. .. especially relax something site ..lots of hotties.

Did not get to do it since most I liked were fully booked for my 2 days there. I also visited Sofia and Budapest.

I've never seen more hot women in my life. Looks like Stalin and Hitler couldn't kill them all.

Octavian - It's too bad that we don't have the global Communism that you would love to see. Then no one would be able to be more successful then you and you would no longer have to be envious of what others have (unless you are a party member). Sounds like Utopia for ne'er-do-wells.

I have never read such none sense like what you posted above.