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Thread: The language laws & The bilingual and multilingual regions

  1. #1

    The language laws & The bilingual and multilingual regions

    Unique? How about backwards? In most of Europe it is normal for people to be not only bilingual, but multilingual. Here in Quebec, there are laws to try and keep the population UNILINGUAL French and being bilingual is actually discouraged. The rest of the world is knocking down borders and other barriers but here we want to make new borders and build walls. Yeah, we're unique all right.
    Last edited by Mod 10; 08-31-2012 at 11:17 AM.
    And the Lord said unto John, "Come forth and receive eternal life." But John came fifth and won a toaster.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techman View Post
    Unique? How about backwards? In most of Europe it is normal for people to be not only bilingual, but multilingual. Here in Quebec, there are laws to try and keep the population UNILINGUAL French and being bilingual is actually discouraged. The rest of the world is knocking down borders and other barriers but here we want to make new borders and build walls. Yeah, we're unique all right.
    Techman, you're right to a point. With certain politicians and journalists, yes, there certainly appears to be a movement designed to "keep 'em on the farm". But in my everyday meetings with co workers, friends and acquaintances, language is that last thing people get worked up about. In almost every conversation I have, talk slips back and forth between French and English... sometimes in the same sentence. I can't count the number of times I've heard conversations where one person says something in one language, somebody else answers in the other, and everybody understands. Yes, there might be accents and wrong tenses and genders on occasion, but nobody gets upset with that. Now, this is Montreal. I wouldn't expect this to be the case in Chicoutimi or Sept Iles, but even there I don't think the language issue is the biggest preoccupation.

    We unfortunately have a class of politicians, journalists, academics and self professed intelligentsia here in Quebec who persist in playing this card. And unfortunately, I don't see that changing on Tuesday.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Techman View Post
    Unique? How about backwards? In most of Europe it is normal for people to be not only bilingual, but multilingual. Here in Quebec, there are laws to try and keep the population UNILINGUAL French and being bilingual is actually discouraged. The rest of the world is knocking down borders and other barriers but here we want to make new borders and build walls. Yeah, we're unique all right.
    This is not true... Most people in France speak only French. Most people in Germany speak only German. Most in Italy speak only Italian. The only countries in Europe where a significant percentage of their population speak more than 1 language are Switzerland and Holland. Travel outside of Paris and see how far you get speaking English. Travel anywhere in Germany and try to speak only English... You will have about as much success as speaking anything but French outside of Montreal. Montreal is one of the few truly bilingual cities in the world.

  4. #4
    You're comparing countries to the CITY of Montreal. Most people in Quebec outside of Montreal only speak French. Most people in the regions of Quebec have never even seen someone who wasn't white and French speaking except in a movie or on tv. Does that reflect Montreal? Not hardly. Montreal is a cosmopolitan city, yes. But it is hardly unique in the world. And if the PQ had their way, no language other than French would ever be heard on our streets.
    And the Lord said unto John, "Come forth and receive eternal life." But John came fifth and won a toaster.

  5. #5
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    It's unfortunate that the politicians always bring up the language debate and put the population against one another whether it be french or english.

    It's very discouraging and a diservice to the quebec people that the government is trying to keep them uniligual french. By doing so the quebec people miss alot of orportunities to further themselves because they cannot compete for better jobs because they don't speak english, they can't travel outside of quebec because they can't communicate in english.

    By forcing new immigrants into french schools they only harm their own people in the work force. As the so called true quebecers will only be able to speak french, the immigrant worker that was forced into french school will sometimes end up being able to speak 3 languages (french, english, and their mother tongue).

    So the unilingual french quebecer will end up bitching and complaining........WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!!.......
    "Just When I Thought I Was Out.....They Pull Me Back In!!!"

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Techman View Post
    You're comparing countries to the CITY of Montreal. Most people in Quebec outside of Montreal only speak French. Most people in the regions of Quebec have never even seen someone who wasn't white and French speaking except in a movie or on tv. Does that reflect Montreal? Not hardly. Montreal is a cosmopolitan city, yes. But it is hardly unique in the world. And if the PQ had their way, no language other than French would ever be heard on our streets.
    That is pretty much exactly what I said, if you actually read what I wrote... You said it is common for people to be multi-lingual in Europe. this is simply not true.

    Your view that Europe is a continent of bilingual people where walls are being torn down is bs... Outside of very few cities in Europe do people actually speak more than 1 language. In fact, i bet you can't even name more than 3 cities in Europe that are more multi-lingual than Montreal.

    Despite the politics, Montreal is more truly multilingual than it has ever been. There used to be a large Anglo community surrounded by a Franco community. Now, there are more bilingual people than there ever were. The government can legislate whatever the f@ck it wants, this reality will not change...

  7. #7
    The government can legislate whatever the f@ck it wants, this reality will not change...
    No, the reality of Montreal will not change which is why I keep repeating that these laws are totally useless and do nothing more than cost this city and this province billions of dollars in revenue.

    As for bilingual and multilingual regions, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...es_and_regions

    Yup. We're unique.
    And the Lord said unto John, "Come forth and receive eternal life." But John came fifth and won a toaster.

  8. #8
    Well, I have no idea what point you are trying to make anymore... I responded to this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Techman View Post
    Unique? How about backwards? In most of Europe it is normal for people to be not only bilingual, but multilingual.
    this is simply not true...

    Quote Originally Posted by Techman View Post
    The rest of the world is knocking down borders and other barriers but here we want to make new borders and build walls.
    This is simply not true either... Check out European immigration policy, or the 3000 mile border fence between the US and Mexico...

    I don't support the language laws here either, but to say that it is worse here than in Europe or many other parts of the world is simply wrong.

  9. #9
    I don't support the language laws here either, but to say that it is worse here than in Europe or many other parts of the world is simply wrong.
    Find me ONE place in the rest of the world that has language laws anywhere close to ours. In fact, find me one place in the world that has language laws. Then tell me again how it's not so bad here.

    You are right about my first statement you quoted...I should have said most major cities in Europe that are comparable to Montreal in importance are more multilingual than we are here. And they don't have any language laws.
    And the Lord said unto John, "Come forth and receive eternal life." But John came fifth and won a toaster.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by johnhenrygalt View Post
    Montreal does have this bilingual aspect to it, but many cities have similar characteristics. Barcelona shares Catalan and Castillian as everyday languages. In many neighbourhoods of Houston, Los Angeles, Corpus Christi, El Paso, Miami and a few other cities in the USA people interchange Spanish and English, often in mid-sentence. In Brussels, French and Flemish co-exist, along with English, the working language of the EU. Both Russian and Ukrainian are spoken in the streets of Kiev. In Munich and Nuremburg many still speak Bayerisch along with the standard Hoch-Deutsch. French and Arabic are used interchangeably in Casablanca and Rabat. Hebrew, English and Arabic are spoken in Tel Aviv, not to mention Russian. French, English and a local creole (a dialect of French with Spanish and English mixed in) coexist in Port Louis, Mauritius. There are dozens more, if not hundreds, of other examples.
    Barcelona is another city that I would say is truly bilingual along with Brussels.
    I haven't traveled extensively in the south (San Antonio mostly), but given the rise of the right-wing/anti-hispanic politics of these states, I don't think we look too bad in comparison (ie: SB1070 in Arizona). I have never visited the Ukraine, Tel Aviv or Mauritius, so I can't comment. I have traveled extensively in Germany, and it is difficult to get by without speaking the language. The vast majority do not speak anything but German. My experiences of Africa are mostly limited to Algiers and Senegal. Despite their French colonial heritage lets just say that I wouldn't wander too far into the hinterlands speaking French too loudly...

    I still think this place is pretty special...

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Techman View Post
    Find me ONE place in the rest of the world that has language laws anywhere close to ours. In fact, find me one place in the world that has language laws. Then tell me again how it's not so bad here.

    You are right about my first statement you quoted...I should have said most major cities in Europe that are comparable to Montreal in importance are more multilingual than we are here. And they don't have any language laws.
    Dude, you are hallucinating...

    go be Turkish in Germany, or Mexican in Arizona, or Algerian in France, or Basque in Spain, or Tutsi in Rwanda, or Chechen in Russia, or Armenian in Turkey etc and tell me how bad we have it here.

    Again, I don't support the language laws here either, but to act like we are some kind of persecuted minority and things are so horrible here for anglos is laughable...

    oh, and some other countries that have or have had language laws:
    Belgium
    Croatia
    Finland
    France
    Germany
    Hungary
    Latvia
    Poland
    Slovakia
    Spain
    Former Soviet Union
    United Kingdom

    http://www.tlfq.ulaval.ca/axl/monde/...itique-lng.htm

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Techman View Post
    Most people in the regions of Quebec have never even seen someone who wasn't white and French speaking except in a movie or on tv. Does that reflect Montreal? Not hardly. Montreal is a cosmopolitan city, yes.
    That's not true Techman. As much as people don't speak good English out there, people will try to acomodate tourists in English most of the times. True some won't be willing or able to do so, but it's not gonna be desastrous. An no, PQ wants to protect French and it needs to be protected, but nobody said we had to get rid of the English language.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Techman View Post
    Find me ONE place in the rest of the world that has language laws anywhere close to ours. In fact, find me one place in the world that has language laws. Then tell me again how it's not so bad here.

    You are right about my first statement you quoted...I should have said most major cities in Europe that are comparable to Montreal in importance are more multilingual than we are here. And they don't have any language laws.
    Most countries in the world have language laws. Quebec is hardly unique.

  14. #14
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    Here we go again!

    Whenever you mention the coexistence of French and English ( and soon Mandarin, Punjabi.etc. ) Our good old Techman comes haunting us with Bill 101, the separatist et al.

    Joelcairo,ins’t very far I’m sure and Big Dady Cool and Oliver Kloseoff may do a comeback.

    Techman is a constant shit disturber when it comes to language issues and as I may have said before in some previous flaming posts , get over it man and if you don’t like the situation here in Quebec then leave.

    And Techman don’t even bother replying to this I won’t add to it.

    Now back to Maria’s comment , aside the fact that the Mayor is a living dead, the potholes, the constant roadwork and detours, and the cyclist and pedestrians not respecting the red lights, yes Montreal is a wonderful city to be in.

    Have a nice day!
    Last edited by b_cup_lover; 08-31-2012 at 09:23 AM. Reason: Syntax

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    Quote Originally Posted by b_cup_lover View Post
    Here we go again!

    Whenever you mention the coexistence of French and English ( and soon Mandarin, Punjabi.etc. ) Our good old Techman comes haunting us with Bill 101, the separatist et al.

    Techman is a constant shit disturber when it comes to language issues and as I may have said before in some previous flaming posts , get over it man and if you don’t like the situation here in Quebec then leave.

    And Techman don’t even bother replying to this I won’t add to it.
    I respect the fact that you don't see eye-to-eye with Techman, but is this a reason to insult him & not allow him to have an opinion? Personally, i welcome all kinds of different opinions on various topics i may or may not know about. That's how we educate ourselves and make us more aware of what's going on out there and around us.

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