Montreal Angels Apology and Request to Return to MERB
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Insincere at best
The moderator said Jeff edited his post twelve times and that the "ominous tone" was rising with every edit until the last, possibly when he was warned by someone it would earn consequences on MERB.
Even though this is back-channel, I have heard credible stuff about a girl getting beaten up by her agency manager right in the Chablis lot, and another one getting all her car windows smashed overnight after leaving an agency. Let's face it: certain aspects of prostitution in Canada are legal while many others are tolerated by the authorities. One fact remains: the cash nature of the transactions and the resulting tax evasion still make it black market. Unsavory characters tend to gravitate there.
The snippets of the original post I read reveal no "poor understanding of English" as pleaded by Jeff. I started learning English very early in life and I am sure I would have known very early on what these words mean when assembled together.
I say that if Jeff comes in with transparency and true desire to earn the respect of the girls, the clients and the board, possibly he should be allowed to be here. His current "apology" sounds more like he is making excuses and the said excuses are just not sticking with me. Sorry, try again.
One of the things that I like about being on MERB is exactly that some standards are enforced by a sort of consensus: levels of service, prices to a certain extent and exposure of threatening/dangerous behaviors.
Keep up the good work.
The moderator said Jeff edited his post twelve times and that the "ominous tone" was rising with every edit until the last, possibly when he was warned by someone it would earn consequences on MERB.
Even though this is back-channel, I have heard credible stuff about a girl getting beaten up by her agency manager right in the Chablis lot, and another one getting all her car windows smashed overnight after leaving an agency. Let's face it: certain aspects of prostitution in Canada are legal while many others are tolerated by the authorities. One fact remains: the cash nature of the transactions and the resulting tax evasion still make it black market. Unsavory characters tend to gravitate there.
The snippets of the original post I read reveal no "poor understanding of English" as pleaded by Jeff. I started learning English very early in life and I am sure I would have known very early on what these words mean when assembled together.
I say that if Jeff comes in with transparency and true desire to earn the respect of the girls, the clients and the board, possibly he should be allowed to be here. His current "apology" sounds more like he is making excuses and the said excuses are just not sticking with me. Sorry, try again.
One of the things that I like about being on MERB is exactly that some standards are enforced by a sort of consensus: levels of service, prices to a certain extent and exposure of threatening/dangerous behaviors.
Keep up the good work.
since when was the escort business a daycare for grown-men...
this is an adult business, so ppl have to expect some adult shit to go down.
and yes, i've dealt with "bookers" who were drunk, f'ed up on something and have been threatened...
1st time, i was concerned
2nd time, i was pissed off and we got into a yelling match.
3rd time, i didn't bother giving the dumbass extra airtime.
why are people making this situation sound unique as if we've never heard about this on Merb?
listen, none of it is acceptable.
i don't need to play this "shades of grey" game of thinking it's OK to get screwed over as long as no one is threatening to come to my house/hotel to ...
from my side of the fence as a client, don't steal from me + don't threaten me.
just deliver what's agreed to and we're all happy.
to top it off, now merbites are social workers too?
i'm not going to sit around and pretend i'm part of some morality police looking to protect the integrity of the biz and the girls... but i do expect a bunch of 1-liner clowns to surface and mouth off now.
this sets a precedence ... i guess the next advertiser that threatens merbites ( or their girls ) gets a permanent ban as well right!? in fact any agency we can provide proof of having threatened clients gets a lifetime ban right?
Sounds good to me. (Sorry I don't share your amorality, ee.)
Yes, merb, at its best, is more than simply a review board. If merb has the ability to serve as a resource for the safety of both clients and providers, then it is a better place. Let me echo Sapman's sentiment in lauding the mods for the work they're doing here to that end. Keep up the good work.
so rump, for shits and giggles... why aren't u lobbying for the removal of the Street Walker and the MP sections. Same for In-call.
you talk of wanting to create a safer place for girls in the business...
you're going to tell the world you've never heard an agency owner strongly "insist" the girl you're finishing a call with take the next call even though there's a crimson tide flowing from between her legs and or she's so sick that she might pass out for whatever reason. did you ever call out those owners on this board and share your concern for that SP's safety.... think long and hard.
Must confess that I never have. I am, however, very discriminating about the agencies with whom I deal.
Must confess that I've never had the occasion to do so, but if I did, you can bet I would. I consider that my responsibility. And yours.
The girls to me are human beings. I care for every one I've met, regardless of the wonderfulness of the session. I see none as a piece of meat to be discarded.
I don"t know the whole story and I really am not intrested.I have used Montreal Angel"s service many many times .for me they are one of the most decent agencey I have done business.no bull straight forward very puncoual and very often follow up with cutomer service.
some times we all get carried away when get pissed off as a client of an escort or the agencey owner.this agencey is not a B&S and very often have nice sp"s working for him.hope he is back withmerb.
amazona
some times we all get carried away when get pissed off as a client of an escort or the agencey owner.this agencey is not a B&S and very often have nice sp"s working for him.hope he is back withmerb.
amazona
so am i to understand you don't see the absolute irony of your statement above relative to your Alyssa Roze mission statement:
...yet you're standing on a soapbox preaching about the safety of the boys + girls??? really now... are you so sure the so-called "primates" of the "real jungle" understand you're being playful with your chosen signature?
I would like to remind everyone to read the starting post in this thread again before I start handing out suspensions. Members were asked to keep their point on topic. Perhaps I was not clear enough but the topic is whether you do or do not accept the apology presented by Montreal Angels and whether they should be permitted to return to MERB. This thread was not created to rehash the events that happened and which are clearly visible and available for all members in the original thread.
From here on out I expect everyone to make their posts short and to the point. The opinions in this thread will be used to help the moderators make a decision and writing multiple paragraphs is not necessary. I have re-opened the original thread for those who wish to get back into that discussion, but do not continue it here in this thread.
Thank you.
From here on out I expect everyone to make their posts short and to the point. The opinions in this thread will be used to help the moderators make a decision and writing multiple paragraphs is not necessary. I have re-opened the original thread for those who wish to get back into that discussion, but do not continue it here in this thread.
Thank you.
Hey all,
Please define..."adult shit". Well we know you seem to be ready to excuse threats clearly meant to attack clients personal lives. What else? We know that in this business situations can exist where the escorts are coerced to perform acts they don't want to do ...owners may coerce the ladies for sex to get appointments ...drugs and alcohol can be used ...gangs can take over and create virtual slavery, etc. Is that the adult shit? So you are implying that this ADULT SHIT is just par for the course. The more I read you and your generally dismissive views of "adult shit", then consider the possible implications of the gross attitude and temperament displayed by the owner of MA...I start to lean more and more against him coming back.
When I see clients suggesting "adult shit" is just something natural in the business and that we should let pass harsh attacks on clients that might also be turned on the ladies, then I start to see a path toward cold a-morality and inhumanity that we should not dismiss.
Thanks for the help.
PEEEEUUUUUU!
Mod8, I think the attitudes clients have about what was obviously a gross attack by an agency owner are very relevant for perspective on this issue.
Merlot
Please define..."adult shit". Well we know you seem to be ready to excuse threats clearly meant to attack clients personal lives. What else? We know that in this business situations can exist where the escorts are coerced to perform acts they don't want to do ...owners may coerce the ladies for sex to get appointments ...drugs and alcohol can be used ...gangs can take over and create virtual slavery, etc. Is that the adult shit? So you are implying that this ADULT SHIT is just par for the course. The more I read you and your generally dismissive views of "adult shit", then consider the possible implications of the gross attitude and temperament displayed by the owner of MA...I start to lean more and more against him coming back.
When I see clients suggesting "adult shit" is just something natural in the business and that we should let pass harsh attacks on clients that might also be turned on the ladies, then I start to see a path toward cold a-morality and inhumanity that we should not dismiss.
Thanks for the help.
PEEEEUUUUUU! Mod8, I think the attitudes clients have about what was obviously a gross attack by an agency owner are very relevant for perspective on this issue.
Merlot
Hello everyone,
Please remember that MERB is not a regulatory body for the escort industry. While some unsavory things may happen in relation to this hobby, we have no control over such things. The only thing we as moderators have any control over is how advertisers and hobbyists comport themselves here on MERB. Montreal Angels were banned because of a post they made here on MERB, they were not banned for any actions they may or may not have taken in the running of their business. How they run their agency and how they deal with their customers is not the business of MERB or it's moderators and does not factor in any decision we will make.
If a customer is not happy with the service they receive from this or any other agency, MERB is here for them to report it in a review. Any discussion of how this or any other agency runs their business is not relevant to this situation.
Mod 8
Please remember that MERB is not a regulatory body for the escort industry. While some unsavory things may happen in relation to this hobby, we have no control over such things. The only thing we as moderators have any control over is how advertisers and hobbyists comport themselves here on MERB. Montreal Angels were banned because of a post they made here on MERB, they were not banned for any actions they may or may not have taken in the running of their business. How they run their agency and how they deal with their customers is not the business of MERB or it's moderators and does not factor in any decision we will make.
If a customer is not happy with the service they receive from this or any other agency, MERB is here for them to report it in a review. Any discussion of how this or any other agency runs their business is not relevant to this situation.
Mod 8
It very well might (set a precedent, a good one I might add), is that a problem for you? The way you put the question sounds like it may be. I may be overreaching, but it sounds like you are "worried" about losing access to some of your favorite girls in the process.. Nice.
It is not a problem for me and I will tell you why: someone wiser to the "Marquess of Queensbury" rules will come in to fill the void and recruit those girls (and attract clients) wise enough to distance themselves from abusers.
Mods: I believe this is on topic as it points out that lifting the ban will foster a climate of impunity. Maintaining the ban will make it clear certain behaviors are not tolerated
If we just step back a minute and check out **MERB Suspensions: Check here for why and how long** it gives a good idea why certain bans are permanent.
Check it out and make your own conclusions.
My vote ... Keep the ban permanent
Check it out and make your own conclusions.
My vote ... Keep the ban permanent
To address evillethings' quote, as I said in my last post we have no control over anything that happens in the hobby away from MERB. If anyone is on the receiving end of threats or physical abuse, that becomes a case for the police, not MERB moderators. If, however, someone threatens a member on the board or by PM, then yes, a suspension would be the result. The length of said suspension would depend on the nature of the threat.
Guys, the mods discussed the possibility of making a poll, either public or private. Both options have at least 1 drawback serious enough:
1- A public post will not lead to many people participating, some fearing retaliation. Many members make the mistake of telling their MERB handle when booking a girl and this makes things a bit delicate in this situation.
2- A private poll is private to everybody, including the mods. This would allow anybody to register a ton of handle and fuck-up the results.
This thread is here to get the pulse of the members. Those who want to pitch-in and participate in public can do it. Those who prefer to tell us their opinion in PM or email can do it also. But there's no "count" attached to this thread.
Why? 2 main reasons:
1- If this would be a poll, we know some members would try to read the numbers without looking at the thread and would think the numbers are binding, no matter how skewed or unrepresentative the sampling is.
2- A thread without a poll is, in our opinion, the best way to get a valid opinion since we can read people's point of view. Adding a poll would result in people voting without explaining.
I repeat, those who don't want to post in public can PM or email us, no matter if it's for or against a return.
Thanks
1- A public post will not lead to many people participating, some fearing retaliation. Many members make the mistake of telling their MERB handle when booking a girl and this makes things a bit delicate in this situation.
2- A private poll is private to everybody, including the mods. This would allow anybody to register a ton of handle and fuck-up the results.
This thread is here to get the pulse of the members. Those who want to pitch-in and participate in public can do it. Those who prefer to tell us their opinion in PM or email can do it also. But there's no "count" attached to this thread.
Why? 2 main reasons:
1- If this would be a poll, we know some members would try to read the numbers without looking at the thread and would think the numbers are binding, no matter how skewed or unrepresentative the sampling is.
2- A thread without a poll is, in our opinion, the best way to get a valid opinion since we can read people's point of view. Adding a poll would result in people voting without explaining.
I repeat, those who don't want to post in public can PM or email us, no matter if it's for or against a return.
Thanks
And also some other things like previous suspensions. I guess that when mod decide on the length of a suspension they also consider some other aspects also, dealing with informations the best they can.
I do not advocate for a permanent ban but a very significant one. I would suggest not giving a fix length and let the mods decide when it is appropriate to lift it. People can change and deserve to be given a second chance when they do. The message given by many members is quite clear: the guy's attitude is a very serious problem. I am quite sure most of them care a lot more for the girls then themselves. You asked us what we think. You get a quite clear answer from many. This is an occasion for us speak out loud and say that we, as a community, have no tolerance for abuse on both girls and clients in this business.
I disagree with a public poll. If you are to take part of a decision on such issue, I think you have to justify your point of view.
I have never used the MA agency so I have no personal experience with them. However, I don't believe a poll should decide whether or not Jeff/MA comes back. I think based on the logic of what the Mods have already posted he should be allowed back. Here is what the Mods posted:
Most of the posters who have rejected the return of MA have done so on moral grounds, or on safety grounds. However those issues are not within the regulatory purview of MERB, as stated by the Mods. There are many bait and switch agencies advertising on MERB, and there is also a bait and switch sticky warning against those same agencies. In the past, calls to strip those agencies of advertising rights have been uniformly shot down by the Mods.
While physical threats stand on a different footing than bait and switch tactics, they are the purview of the Montreal police department, not MERB. In effect, those who are calling for MA's permanent ban are asking the Mods to strip a proprietary right which in theory only law enforcement has the right to take away. In effect, these posters are requesting the Mods to behave as police officers and enforce laws that may not have been broken. My question to them is, will you also pay these Mods to have the salary of police officers (including meal money for donuts and coffee every day)?
I think MA made a grave mistake, and they have already been punished badly. Many posters have already commented they will not do business with them and I am sure they will not. Everyone here is free, based on the information provided here and elsewhere, to use them or not use them.
But to permanently ban them based on the posting of a threat- one we have no evidence was ever acted upon - in effect allows the Mods to act as police officers by proxy. I don't recall any advertiser ever being permanently banned by MERB, and it is basically for the same reasons. The Mods are not here to make morality judgments or law enforcement judgments regarding advertisers, and a permanent ban in this case does one or both, which is unprecedented, even for the so called bait and switch agencies who advertise on MERB, and who have been well established as bait and switch agencies for many years.
MA should be free to conduct their business and win back, or totally lose, this community. This community is free to use or not use them. They are only paying for the right to advertise. We all have information to make a decision and use them or not.
There has been a lot of posts about threats to clients and girls. To me a lot of this falls under the heading of rumor, innuendo and bullshit, and I don't know how much is true and how much isn't. On the internet with fake handles anyone can claim anything. If someone has proof of threats and the making good on threats, go to the Montreal police department and shut the fuck up! Otherwise I will assume you are a blowhard with an agenda. If criminal laws are broken you don't whine on a board, you go to the cops. The real cops.
All that being said, I am troubled by the episode and the very poor judgment of MA, and I hope they learn something from this affair.
Most of the posters who have rejected the return of MA have done so on moral grounds, or on safety grounds. However those issues are not within the regulatory purview of MERB, as stated by the Mods. There are many bait and switch agencies advertising on MERB, and there is also a bait and switch sticky warning against those same agencies. In the past, calls to strip those agencies of advertising rights have been uniformly shot down by the Mods.
While physical threats stand on a different footing than bait and switch tactics, they are the purview of the Montreal police department, not MERB. In effect, those who are calling for MA's permanent ban are asking the Mods to strip a proprietary right which in theory only law enforcement has the right to take away. In effect, these posters are requesting the Mods to behave as police officers and enforce laws that may not have been broken. My question to them is, will you also pay these Mods to have the salary of police officers (including meal money for donuts and coffee every day)?
I think MA made a grave mistake, and they have already been punished badly. Many posters have already commented they will not do business with them and I am sure they will not. Everyone here is free, based on the information provided here and elsewhere, to use them or not use them.
But to permanently ban them based on the posting of a threat- one we have no evidence was ever acted upon - in effect allows the Mods to act as police officers by proxy. I don't recall any advertiser ever being permanently banned by MERB, and it is basically for the same reasons. The Mods are not here to make morality judgments or law enforcement judgments regarding advertisers, and a permanent ban in this case does one or both, which is unprecedented, even for the so called bait and switch agencies who advertise on MERB, and who have been well established as bait and switch agencies for many years.
MA should be free to conduct their business and win back, or totally lose, this community. This community is free to use or not use them. They are only paying for the right to advertise. We all have information to make a decision and use them or not.
There has been a lot of posts about threats to clients and girls. To me a lot of this falls under the heading of rumor, innuendo and bullshit, and I don't know how much is true and how much isn't. On the internet with fake handles anyone can claim anything. If someone has proof of threats and the making good on threats, go to the Montreal police department and shut the fuck up! Otherwise I will assume you are a blowhard with an agenda. If criminal laws are broken you don't whine on a board, you go to the cops. The real cops.
All that being said, I am troubled by the episode and the very poor judgment of MA, and I hope they learn something from this affair.
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