3:30 EST Bill - 36 will be debated in a few minutes http://www.cpac.ca/en

[EagerBeaver]

Arrestees have a bad habit of talking to the police even after they are told they can remain silent. Police use tatics like if you talk to us, it will be a lot easier for you. If you don't we will give your name and booking photo to the newspapers. You have had clients who have talked, haven't you?

Yes, before they came to me. It is a concern that people talk when they are scared and flummoxed by the cops and this does happen.

I represented a guy on gun charges about 7 years ago. He was fired from his job and was originally charged with threatening and breach of peace after he made a fucking scene at his place of employment, issued threats etc. After the cops arrived he started talking about his guns to one of them so they added another charge, I forget what it was. I ended up getting all the charges nolled with an agreement to give up his gun permit and sell all his guns, one of which was actually impounded by the cops before i got the case. Had the guns not been discussed with the cops, it was likely a straight unconditional nolle of the other charges based on my negotiations with the prosecutor. Employer did not want to press the charges and client had no record at that time. The client was a knucklehead and I recently heard he is now in jail for other weapons charges. Which means he probably was caught with guns after he gave up his permit and did some other stuff.

Unfortunately sometimes the case comes to you with a statement the client made to the cops and you can't undo it when it is in the police report, because it is an admission that is an exception to the hearsay rule and admissible in court. I have had many cases fucked up before they ever got to me, mostly civil cases from car accidents, which were fucked up due to admissions the clients made to the cops. There is nothing I can do to undo those admissions once the cop reports them. They come into evidence and the client looks like a liar if he denies them in Court in most cases.

So yeah, the "knucklhead client talking too much syndrome before he lawyers up" is always a concern.

 

[man77777]

Well, you both say it's not that difficult to get around the prostitution laws, but from what I know you both come in Canada to hobby.

The problem is not only the risk to be caught, but also the way this law will affect the prostitution market : less girls, 30yo+ SP, less concurence so lower service level, harder to find reviews, distrust between sp and costumers...

 

[EagerBeaver]

Well, you both say it's not that difficult to get around the prostitution laws, but from what I know you both come in Canada to hobby.

I hobby in both countries. In the USA it is more expensive but also more local. I can't come to Montreal every weekend.

 

[man77777]

I hobby a lot more in the US than Canada, but I do love my Montreal trips for the much better pricing for the same services. Like a 50-60 percent discount for the same type of girl with the same services.

Do you really find 18-22 hotties with great service and attitude in the US ?

The only experience I had in US was 3years ago. I searched a lot, asked a lot and found what was supposed to be one of the best girl in town. I paid 450$ (and I negociated a 50$ rebate !), she was a 7 in look, a lot of make up, fake boobs, probably not far from her 30's (advertised as 21), very nice and complimenting but fake and mechanical in all what she said and made...

 

[Merlot]

Hello all,

The problem is not only the risk to be caught, but also the way this law will affect the prostitution market : less girls, 30yo+ SP, less concurence so lower service level, harder to find reviews, distrust between sp and costumers...

Yes, I have to agree with all of this. As to risk, what I would worry about are regularly known locations like the Chablis and the possibility of sting operations at such places. I had met one lady in the extreme northern corner of Massachusetts years ago where there was some smaller local hotels only to find out later the area was well known for entertaining prostitutes, and there was a police operation with several arrests that took place not too long after I was there. The main cause was advertisers on Craigs List, which I never inquired about, but the raid was much to close for comfort.

Frankly, I will have a lot of trouble feeling comfortable about Incalls even if they shift locations frequently. But how much hassle is that for an agency. I do not want to risk being anywhere where it might become known that a string of hot ladies or their male visitors are frequently at a place. If I were an agency owner I'd be concerned about the greater risk of running and Incall operation.

It also seems very logical that even if the rules of evidence make it tough for the LE to prosecute clients there's still going to be a general higher trepidation on all sides that will as 77777 described affect the market, service, information access, price and general trust.

Good luck,

Merlot

 

[hungry101]

Do you really find 18-22 hotties with great service and attitude in the US ?

I'm with you Man. I would be willing to pay 2X for some 18-22 girls that are equivalent to Montreal girls. I have not had very good luck in the USA. Last December I met a girl on EROs that advertized with some fake pics and said she was 30. She was attractive but she was more like 40-45 year old that played too much in the sun. She was unreviewed and I couldn't find another girl that could see me in the Charleston SC area (would never be an issue in Montreal). The service was great but she was a "6" for looks at best. I rated her a 6 for her first TER review. The next guy that saw her also gave her a 6. She e-mailed me and asked if I could remove my review from TER. I told her no. The next 8 reviews she got all rated her a 8. No fucking way...if they had ever been to Montreal they would never be able to fuck this girl for $250/hour.

 

[BookerL]

The four important letters - STFU (Shut the Fuck Up) are just as important in not getting arrested in the first place as they are after being arrested. If STFU is utilized, there will likely be no arrest at all in a prostitution case.

Hi all
And Patron congrats on excellent depiction and analysis of a criminal arrest !!!!
Truly the right is clearly as you stating in the 4 letters word "STFU" the individual that as the power to put you behind bars(conviction) is not a Police officer but your Honor the Judge !

Movies and lousy TV shows distort the public's view of how law enforcement works. The police do not enter hotels and certainly not in hotel rooms unless violence is involved with a complaint, or the hotel requests it. The hotels do not want the police doing stake-outs of their guests. This is true worldwide. So outcall to a hotel is the safest route for a john.

Mostly true but there exception when law enforcement believes that ownership is involve in a prostitution ring Has happen here in Montreal I personally know the owner of the Hotel .
Then will have warrants and have electronic surveillance!!!

Even when the girl has incall at the hotel or an apartment and the police know about it, they rarely enter the incall place. The standard operating procedure is to follow the john on a public street and ask him questions to try to get him to incriminate himself. And guess what, most people do! A person does not have to answer any questions other than to provide identification in some jurisdictions. Beyond that he is allowed to say that he will not answer any questions without an attorney present and ask if he is free to go. The police will ask him all sorts of questions, make a theatrical production of writing down his name & address, lie about everything they "know", but if the target just shuts the fuck up other than saying he will not answer questions without an attorney present and politely asks if he is free to go, he will never hear from them again. They need evidence even for an arrest and they only get it when the john incriminates himself

Having been involve in incall management there is a few variable that I personally experience undercover cop posing has John in the incall place with question as such what are you doing for the money all my girls where drilled not take the money in there hands and answer any question before the john was fully nakes!
Your modo STFU CERTAINLY applies self incrimination its most of the how its down to not forget Police officers all well trained li

Even when the girl has incall at the hotel or an apartment and the police know about it, they rarely enter the incall place. The standard operating procedure is to follow the john on a public street and ask him questions to try to get him to incriminate himself. And guess what, most people do! A person does not have to answer any questions other than to provide identification in some jurisdictions. Beyond that he is allowed to say that he will not answer any questions without an attorney present and ask if he is free to go. The police will ask him all sorts of questions, make a theatrical production of writing down his name & address, lie about everything they "know", but if the target just shuts the fuck up other than saying he will not answer questions without an attorney present and politely asks if he is free to go, he will never hear from them again. They need evidence even for an arrest and they only get it when the john incriminates himself

Theres is variables to this in Montreal having been involve in incall situation where undercover cops came to my place of incall posting has Johns yhe girls where drilled when ask what she was providing for that money she needed to wait for Johns to be fully undress safety procedure of screening new Johns!
Self incrimination is the easiest for law enforcement to get a conviction they all know that so they willing to intimidate to achieve there goal get the purp convicted ?

I realize that Canadian laws are different, but they cannot be that much different than US laws. It will not be illegal to hire an escort if this Canadian law passes, it will only be illegal to pay the escort for sexual services. Even if she has immunity from prosecution, there will still need to be some evidence beyond one person's word against another's for even an arrest. That evidence will not come from dramatic sources like DNA testing of condoms or cops busting down doors like it is depicted on idiotic TV shows. It will come from the dumbass john who answers a question from a cop that he did not have to answer.

yes Canadian Criminal law is different but with certain similarities I will not comment on your Us criminal examples as I know nothing of Us criminal laws !!
As for the Canadian ones and was first hand involve in arrest high profile cases of my 20 years tenure as escort booker and driver long police sheet no criminal record always applied the modo "STFU:its the law and you presume innocent until proven guilty by a court !
In Canada application of the criminal code is under Provincial purview and the two official languages of Canada as legal standings sometime creating ambiguity that will favor acquittal
Regards all
BookerL