Exactly, gun loving and extreme religious guys are sometetime ticking bombs.
8 Dead In Atlanta Massage Parlor Shootings
- Thread starter EagerBeaver
- Start date
even if he targeted them because those were the ones that were 'tempting' him, fact remains he targeted these asians, and so therefore, to me, it fits the description of a hate crime, a hate crime targeting asian women. Like I posted initially, xenophobia or misogyny? turns out to be both (imho).
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Okay, so I'm going to pop in here to address a few things.
First of all, someone mentioned something similar happening in Canada, and others denied it. A similar attack at a massage parlour did take place, as Paola mentioned. Here's a link to an article covering it https://www.google.ca/amp/s/beta.ctvnews.ca/local/toronto/2020/2/25/1_4827215.html. If you're going to argue that the Canadian version was less deadly, I present you with Canadian gun control laws.
Secondly, there's been a lot of talk on whether this was a hate crime, as it may or may not have been targeting Asian Americans, potentially only targeting sex workers (for being temptation for his sex addiction). Either way, it was a hate crime. If he was targeting females, even if it was sex workers specifically, it was a sexually motivated hate crime on women. If it was because they were (asians) working in an Asian establishment , it was a double hate crime against Asian women.
Either way, this was an egregious attack targeting (mostly?) Asian sex workers, and the only discussion you should be having about it is about how to prevent terrible nonsense like this from happening in the future, and how you, as clients, can work to protect sex workers. Seriously, why else discuss this on a sex-work-centric Forum?
- an Asian-Canadian/American SW
Also, y'all continue to blame Trump for shit like this. Don't get me wrong, he absolutey did provide an atmosphere that welcomed people to express their true beliefs, but he isn't the cause of racism/ sexism/ anti-SW beliefs; this shit has been engrained in society for a while, in many ways, and one of the ways you can support these communities is to be supportive of marginalized communities in discussions like this, and to support said communities with your finances and votes.
First of all, someone mentioned something similar happening in Canada, and others denied it. A similar attack at a massage parlour did take place, as Paola mentioned. Here's a link to an article covering it https://www.google.ca/amp/s/beta.ctvnews.ca/local/toronto/2020/2/25/1_4827215.html. If you're going to argue that the Canadian version was less deadly, I present you with Canadian gun control laws.
Secondly, there's been a lot of talk on whether this was a hate crime, as it may or may not have been targeting Asian Americans, potentially only targeting sex workers (for being temptation for his sex addiction). Either way, it was a hate crime. If he was targeting females, even if it was sex workers specifically, it was a sexually motivated hate crime on women. If it was because they were (asians) working in an Asian establishment , it was a double hate crime against Asian women.
Either way, this was an egregious attack targeting (mostly?) Asian sex workers, and the only discussion you should be having about it is about how to prevent terrible nonsense like this from happening in the future, and how you, as clients, can work to protect sex workers. Seriously, why else discuss this on a sex-work-centric Forum?
- an Asian-Canadian/American SW
Also, y'all continue to blame Trump for shit like this. Don't get me wrong, he absolutey did provide an atmosphere that welcomed people to express their true beliefs, but he isn't the cause of racism/ sexism/ anti-SW beliefs; this shit has been engrained in society for a while, in many ways, and one of the ways you can support these communities is to be supportive of marginalized communities in discussions like this, and to support said communities with your finances and votes.
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when I first heard of the news I thought it was gang related ... then sex related until I found out that they were mostly Asian victims which makes it really a hate crime .... it’s a shame that he was able to take so many lives and I hope this dude pays dearly , although for what he did there is no penalty or punishment harsh enough
It's very possible that this particular shooting has nothing to do with "racism". Just a frustrated incel, stupid enough to blame humanity and particularly women for his problem, not being able to be a true man. But nobody can deny that there was a vicious guy, president of USA, who exacerbated during four long years the most racist, xenophobic, misogynistic, etc instincts within the "people", to seed discord and grab all the votes he could. He didn't get enough and tried to steal the election pretending he should be the winner. The reality being he is a cheater, a sore loser. The vast majority of people how voted for him are surely honest and common sense ones but there is a fringe who was manipulated or excited by him. There are also those "coucou" who get a hard-on looking at a gun, the incels and other freaks from far-right, as the ones assaulting the Capitol. And all those arms.... ARMS ARE FOR HUGGING!!!! Nobody can deny that calling SARS-Cov2 "the Chinese Virus" did stigmatise the asian community. We saw it in USA and also in Canada and around the globe.
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I am so annoyed by the virtue-signaling pundits who insist on the racial aspect of the crime, and who refuse to talk about the security issues faced by sex workers in general,
because defending sex workers doesn't get them any virtue points, but crying racism does.
because defending sex workers doesn't get them any virtue points, but crying racism does.
^^
Ducon I don’t give a damn about virtue-signaling ... but we are on an escort review board so more or less we all know or read a few of the things sex workers go through ,,, “security issues “ being one of them ... I haven’t read on it much but it seems the work of a mentally ill person who hit the trifecta and therefore did enough to insult all “parties” .... I’m really saddened and sorry it happened but we’re not all after virtue points , but I will give you a like
Ducon I don’t give a damn about virtue-signaling ... but we are on an escort review board so more or less we all know or read a few of the things sex workers go through ,,, “security issues “ being one of them ... I haven’t read on it much but it seems the work of a mentally ill person who hit the trifecta and therefore did enough to insult all “parties” .... I’m really saddened and sorry it happened but we’re not all after virtue points , but I will give you a like
As far as security issues in general at massage parlors, some have security/surveillance cameras or security goons on premises. If as the reports indicated the perp was a past client of the MPs that he shot up, there would be no reason for anyone to be suspicious until he pulled out his gun and opened fire.
Yeah that's true enough. It was absolutely misogynist and possibly xenophobic and racist on some level as well. Horrible in any case.
I read one of his victims was a White woman, so you may want to rethink the racism angle.
Most likely he was just an angry, disturbed guy who wanted to kill people.
Most likely he was just an angry, disturbed guy who wanted to kill people.
Asian Massage Parlors do use security cameras outdoors and in public areas but not in the rooms. The security cameras were instrumental in quickly identifying the suspect.
However the Asian parlors do NOT use "security goons." In fact, most parlors never have a male employee or owner present on the premises. This makes them very vulnerable to crime though violent crimes in Asian massage parlors are very rare. You are much more likely to witness a murder in a bar or club than in an Asian massage parlor.
I don't like to use the phrase "hate crime." Murder is murder and rape is rape, no matter what the motive. Motive can be important in establishing the guilt of a defendant but there is no need to create special categories or crimes that are terrible in and of themselves.
Nevertheless, if the accused in this case hated anyone he hated prostitutes who happened to be Asian. He sought out sex in the easiest and cheapest incall place to get it, and in the U.S. that means Asian massage parlors. There is no evidence that he hated Asians in general or women in general.
As for "sex addiction," most psychiatrists do not believe that you can be "addicted" to sex (which is why it does not appear in the DSM), though people can and do suffer from harmful compulsive sexual behaviors. In the case of the accused in this case, his reference to sex addiction is an attempt to gain sympathy for the commission of a heinous crime. He supposedly spent six months being treated for his "addiction"--maybe we should shut down the institution that "treated" his "addiction" for malpractice.
I hear what you're saying, but it's not clear that asian massage parlours are the easiest and cheapest places to get action, that in itself sounds wrong to me.
And also, maybe, these are the places that have fed his compulsions because of an underlying attraction to asian women, which he perveted into a hatred. It may be exactely that, a hatred towards asian women in particular. Either way, in the end, a community as a whole feels attacked.
I guess what you are saying is that the term 'hate crime' has to have a political or ideological element attached to it to it to be labeled as such. I would argue that there are hate crimes on an individual basis, and hate crimes on a socialogical basis. This was a hate crime on an individual basis. Not sure if the maga world had an impact on him.
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There is every evidence that he hated women seeing as nearly all that he murdered were women, so it definitely is a hate crime.
Unfortunately there will always be lunatics like this and women in the sex trade are always more vulnerable than any other profession and can never be too cautious.
Unfortunately there will always be lunatics like this and women in the sex trade are always more vulnerable than any other profession and can never be too cautious.
Many posters in this thread are confusing the killer's intent with his motive. They are not the same thing, though they can be.
For example, the Charleston, SC killer Dylann Roof, murdered nine black people in a church. The investigation clearly showed that Roof was a horrible racist-he wrote and spoke often about his hatred of black people. Then he deliberately picked out a black church as a target and murdered nine black people.
So Roof was clearly motivated by racism and he clearly intended to kill black people. Roof's crime pretty clearly fits the legal definition of "hate crime" and it definitely fits the definition of 1st degree murder. However, the most important aspect of establishing his guilt was his clear intention to kill people. It doesn't really matter whether he was motivated by hatred of blacks or hatred of church-going Christians. Establishing his specific motive of racism was helpful in establishing his guilt but it wasn't absolutely necessary to do so. In some cases, though, establishing motive can be more important, for example, when the police have difficulty in identifying a suspect, they consider suspects who might have had a motive to commit a crime.
There is no evidence that the Atlanta killer Robert Long was motivated by racism:
www.powerlineblog.com
Perhaps some evidence that Long was a racist will emerge later, but as of now there is no evidence that points to racist motivation. For example, Long had been a customer at two of the three spas. Long was a self-confessed "sex addict." According to people who knew him, Long had never expressed racist feelings either verbally or in writing. He was a tormented man but he wasn't tormented by racist feelings. Rather he was tormented by guilt over his compulsive and dysfunctional sexual behavior.
We are of course curious about Long's motivation but it is not as important as his intent in establishing his guilt. There is no doubt about Long's murderous intent. He didn't walk into three spas and have his gun accidentally and carelessly discharge in the direction of eight people, thus killing them. He picked out places that he was very familiar with and hated for his own bizarre reasons, walked in, targeted his victims and killed them. It was not self defense or an accident. He killed them and he clearly intended to kill them. That is murder. The motive doesn't really matter in proving his guilt.
Nevertheless, it is only natural to ask ourselves: "Why did he do this?" What was the motive?
Six of his eight victims were Asian prostitutes. Why? Because he hated Asians? No, he hated himself for patronizing Asian parlors. Why did he patronize Asian parlors? Because he felt compelled to fulfill his sexual desires and the easiest, safest, cheapest way to pay for sex in many parts of the U.S. (and especially in Atlanta where there are many Asian parlors) is to go to an Asian parlor. He hated himself for feeling compelled to go to the parlors and so he tried to destroy the parlors (ironically, these killings might eventually lead to the shutdown of the industry in Atlanta). It's too bad that he didn't just kill himself rather than the eight victims.
Unfortunately in the current political climate of obsession with race, many media types and politicians (especially Biden) immediately seized on this case as an example of anti-Asian racism. They are especially delighted to have what they assume to be racism by a white guy against Asians. And of course they believe that Trump was the ultimate source of Long's anti Asian racism. I suppose they believe that it's time to impeach Trump for a third time and this time the charge can be "hate crime murder."
For example, the Charleston, SC killer Dylann Roof, murdered nine black people in a church. The investigation clearly showed that Roof was a horrible racist-he wrote and spoke often about his hatred of black people. Then he deliberately picked out a black church as a target and murdered nine black people.
So Roof was clearly motivated by racism and he clearly intended to kill black people. Roof's crime pretty clearly fits the legal definition of "hate crime" and it definitely fits the definition of 1st degree murder. However, the most important aspect of establishing his guilt was his clear intention to kill people. It doesn't really matter whether he was motivated by hatred of blacks or hatred of church-going Christians. Establishing his specific motive of racism was helpful in establishing his guilt but it wasn't absolutely necessary to do so. In some cases, though, establishing motive can be more important, for example, when the police have difficulty in identifying a suspect, they consider suspects who might have had a motive to commit a crime.
There is no evidence that the Atlanta killer Robert Long was motivated by racism:
Media peddles unsupported racial narrative on Atlanta 'spa' shootings
Margaret Sullivan of the Washington Post has written a column with the unwieldy title '‘Not racially motivated’?: The Atlanta spa shootings show why the media should be wary of initial police statements.' Actually, the shootings demonstrate, for the millionth time, that the public should be wary...
www.powerlineblog.com
Perhaps some evidence that Long was a racist will emerge later, but as of now there is no evidence that points to racist motivation. For example, Long had been a customer at two of the three spas. Long was a self-confessed "sex addict." According to people who knew him, Long had never expressed racist feelings either verbally or in writing. He was a tormented man but he wasn't tormented by racist feelings. Rather he was tormented by guilt over his compulsive and dysfunctional sexual behavior.
We are of course curious about Long's motivation but it is not as important as his intent in establishing his guilt. There is no doubt about Long's murderous intent. He didn't walk into three spas and have his gun accidentally and carelessly discharge in the direction of eight people, thus killing them. He picked out places that he was very familiar with and hated for his own bizarre reasons, walked in, targeted his victims and killed them. It was not self defense or an accident. He killed them and he clearly intended to kill them. That is murder. The motive doesn't really matter in proving his guilt.
Nevertheless, it is only natural to ask ourselves: "Why did he do this?" What was the motive?
Six of his eight victims were Asian prostitutes. Why? Because he hated Asians? No, he hated himself for patronizing Asian parlors. Why did he patronize Asian parlors? Because he felt compelled to fulfill his sexual desires and the easiest, safest, cheapest way to pay for sex in many parts of the U.S. (and especially in Atlanta where there are many Asian parlors) is to go to an Asian parlor. He hated himself for feeling compelled to go to the parlors and so he tried to destroy the parlors (ironically, these killings might eventually lead to the shutdown of the industry in Atlanta). It's too bad that he didn't just kill himself rather than the eight victims.
Unfortunately in the current political climate of obsession with race, many media types and politicians (especially Biden) immediately seized on this case as an example of anti-Asian racism. They are especially delighted to have what they assume to be racism by a white guy against Asians. And of course they believe that Trump was the ultimate source of Long's anti Asian racism. I suppose they believe that it's time to impeach Trump for a third time and this time the charge can be "hate crime murder."
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He obviously hated women because he murdered them, the fact that they were Asian may or may not be a factor and is not really the issue.
He was obviously a deranged lunatic who went and murdered these defenceless women and deserves whatever maximum punishment is allowable by the law.
I don’t think the media should make such a big issue out of the fact that they were Asian especially now or the fact that they worked in a massage parlour in the end these women had families and people that cared about them just like any other, but of course it makes for better news if they keep pushing these angles.
Ultimately it just proves how dangerous it can be for women involved in the sex industry.
He was obviously a deranged lunatic who went and murdered these defenceless women and deserves whatever maximum punishment is allowable by the law.
I don’t think the media should make such a big issue out of the fact that they were Asian especially now or the fact that they worked in a massage parlour in the end these women had families and people that cared about them just like any other, but of course it makes for better news if they keep pushing these angles.
Ultimately it just proves how dangerous it can be for women involved in the sex industry.
Yup! Which is why many of us try to screen our clients as best as possible. It won't always prevent tragedies but it will more often than not.
Mental illness is a real problem. To me, this guy may just be a few sandwiches short of a picnic. labeling this is premature. IMHO if we only look at it as a hate crime we are shutting the door on other reasons for this. If this turns out to be a hate crime so be it, but jumping to conclusions before all the facts have been viewed is premature.
In a normal world, you'd be right. But today's mainstream media isn't interested at all in any rational reasoning, they only have One narrative: blame it on the orange guy. Every time they cover this subject on their shows throughout the day, if someone mentions that the crime was incited by the previous president's rhetoric, the entire staff at CNN/MSNBC gets a collective orgasm of satisfaction. The Asian community's sorrow is totally being used by these lame media.
I personally believe there are many other causes for the crime. New info just got released that he spent over 1 hour inside the spa before he left, it's not like he walked in and started shooting, he probably did it after he got the service. Seriously, the dude likes asians.
The dude likes Asians? Are you f-ing serious??? Because he spent a lot of time inside thats your theory... What a disrespectful comment for the people that lost their lives.
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