Montreal Escorts

A thought about our community: feminism

General Gonad

Enlightened pervert
Dec 31, 2005
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Athana said:
Do you really think that we are homeless????

OH COME GG!! Why don't you stop putting all the SP's down & WAKE UP buddy........ you're the one that looks like a looser!!

We're in 2007 not in 1907 mister GG.

Youhooooo!!! come back!!! :rolleyes:

Athana,

I am referring to the overwhelming majority of sex workers who are homeless and who are on the streets slugging away every day. And, despite what you think, there are more than a few agency and independent SPs in Montreal who are being pimped and who have also suffered from abuse in their lives. These SPs are not losers but they exist. I am not judging them but merely stating a fact. Another fact is that drug abuse is rampant among SPs and while they're not homeless, most live in shit holes and do not manage to save a penny. That is another fact so please stop taking these facts personally. Just because this does not represent you, it doesn't mean that it's not out there.:rolleyes:

GG
 

General Gonad

Enlightened pervert
Dec 31, 2005
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legalize it, not just de-criminalize it!!!

traveller_76 said:
That would be called legalizing prostitution.


04-10-2007

(Associated Press)

Sex workers demand the Nevada model.

Thousands of sex-workers demonstrated in the streets of several major North-American cities yesterday, demanding that the Nevada model be applied in their jurisdiction. They chanted slogans like "Let the government pimp us!"; many others burned their bras, forcing police officers in New York to intervene before "an orgy got started, which would have been totally unacceptable," said a NYPD official. Several women were arrested for indecent exposure.

Jennifer Smarts, the chief-organizer of the Montreal demonstration and head of Prostitutes for the Legalization of Prostitution (PLP) explained, "We really think it is unfair that women in Nevada have better working conditions than us - I mean, if you were a prostitute, wouldn't you rather give half your paycheck to the government instead of a pimp?" Asked by a news reporter from the BBC whether she felt there was "a double standard in the fact that clients of Nevada escorts aren't obliged by law to pass medical tests?", Smarts smiled: "You want to see double standards? Picture these 36DD."

In total, 38 women were arrested, in New York (8), Boston (2), Toronto (6), Philadelphia (20), and Montreal (2). No injuries were reported except for a BBC reporter, who required medical attention for shock.

t76,

I stand corrected: I am for legalizing prostitution. I believe that a true feminist would advocate the legalization - and not just the decriminalization - of prostitution using the Nevada model. I agree with Jennifer Smarts, you're better off giving half your paycheck to the government and not a pimp.

On another note, I wonder if that BBC reporter was treated for shock after being flashed by Ms. Smarts 36DDs.:D

GG
 

General Gonad

Enlightened pervert
Dec 31, 2005
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traveller_76 said:
Indeed, were it not for 'true' feminists like Jennifer Smarts, there wouldn't be so many chapters of 'Prostitutes for the Legalization of Prostitution' across Canada and the US :rolleyes:

The world needs more Jennifer Smarts and less Andrea Dworkins.:rolleyes: The solution to a lot of problems in prostitution would be to legalize it, regulate and tax it. Of course, no politician would ever proceed with actually putting forth a bill that makes this much sense.:rolleyes:

GG
 

General Gonad

Enlightened pervert
Dec 31, 2005
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traveller_76 said:
Actually, thanks to politicians who didn't care about sex-workers' opinions we got the Nevada model.

True about Andrea Dworkin. She, like you, would agree with this statement:

What input did the politicians need? Perhaps you can back up your statement with facts. Are there fundamental problems with the Nevada model that make it unsafe for sex workers?:confused:

The only opposition I can see from sex workers is that instead of keeping all the money for themselves, they'll have to give a certain percentage in taxes. Welcome to our world.:rolleyes:

GG

P.S. I did not know Andrea Dworkin had such insight.;)
 

General Gonad

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Dec 31, 2005
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Prostitution - Regimes Of Prohibition, Criminalization, And Regulation

This article is excellent and worth reading.

GG


Prostitution - Regimes Of Prohibition, Criminalization, And Regulation

The 1980s and 1990s saw different faces of prostitution presented in American media. The 1980s case of Sydney Biddle Barrows, the "Mayflower Madam," and the 1990s case of Heidi Fleiss, the "Hollywood Madam," brought public scrutiny, even celebrity, to the world of elite call girls who earn thousands, even tens of thousands, of dollars per day for their services. Over the same period, the expansion of crack cocaine consumption in poor urban neighborhoods contributed to the appearance of the "crack whore." The "crack whore" has become an urban American social type, a persona that is at once a depiction of the most severely drug-addicted, impoverished street prostitutes as well as a rhetorical figure summoned up in policy debates over "welfare reform" and the "war on drugs." Socioeconomic studies of the lives and livelihoods of such drug-addicted prostitutes reveal that their income is often less than the federal minimum wage (Maher and Daly).

Academic, political, and criminal justice policy debates frequently hinge on whether one takes the "entrepreneurial call girl" or the "crack whore" as the paradigm case of prostitution, that is, whether the underlying "cause" of prostitution is free individual choice or socioeconomic and psychopharmacological compulsion. Arrest statistics showing that the vast majority of those charged with prostitution offenses are low-income urban ethnic-minority women are commonly cited to support the latter position. Yet, empirically, it is difficult or impossible to falsify the counterclaim that there exist large numbers of prostitutes who go about their business providing services and contributing to the economy in low visibility, informal market sectors and who are rarely or never arrested. Ultimately, there remains a lack of conclusive empirical findings and criminal justice policy is often mired in the politics of folk moralizing embodied in the warring media stereotypes of glamorous call girl versus pitiable crack whore. As a result, most American jurisdictions retain criminal statutes strictly prohibiting prostitution with little or no change from a century ago.

The legal prohibition in force in all U.S. jurisdictions except Nevada's rural counties is something of an anomaly in the global context. In most of Western Europe, India, Southeast Asia, Canada, Australia, the Pacific, and much of Latin America the policy regimes governing prostitution tend not to criminalize sexual commerce itself (which is usually not fully legal, but rather "decriminalized"). Instead, these countries generally criminalize prostitution-related activities such as solicitation, advertising, living off another person's earnings from sexual commerce, and recruiting and transporting persons to engage in prostitution (in the United States, most of these activities are also criminally sanctioned in addition to prostitution per se). The criminalization of activities associated with prostitution shades subtly into other regimes that are intended to regulate the conduct of prostitution while at least implicitly tolerating it (see Davis).

In Western Europe and certain other regions such decriminalization and regulatory approaches have led to a dual market in prostitution. Most European Union residents can engage in prostitution without criminal sanction, yet at the same time there also exists a widespread illegal secondary prostitution market made up of tens of thousands of migrants from Eastern Europe, Asia, and Latin America. These migrants practice prostitution in an underground economy, for lower earnings and in lesser conditions, fearing arrest, deportation, and coercive violence from their employers.

In virtually no country has prostitution been entirely accepted as a legitimate profession with the full social rights, worker protection, pensions, and other benefits accorded to other laborers and business enterprises. Whether legally prohibited, decriminalized, or regulated, wherever prostitution is practiced it remains a liminal social space subject to regimes of social control. Increasingly, no matter whether prostitution per se is legal or not, criminal justice and other social control strategies are directed toward minimizing the negative externalities (undesirable effects upon third parties or on society in general) that result from prostitution transactions.

A growing tendency is to make use of strategies for spatially segregating prostitution and activities associated with it in order to manage or minimize perceived externalities. This echoes the long-time practice in many cities where overt prostitution is de facto shunted into specific enclaves, often called "red light districts." These have usually been "low-rent" neighborhoods, that is, low-valued land-use urban zones, in or near ethnic minority or migrants' residential areas. It is illustrative of the spatial logic of minimizing the social costs of prostitution that the only place where it is legally tolerated in the United States are certain rural counties of Nevada—areas with very low population densities whose economic development alternatives include military weapons testing sites and toxic waste dumps.

In nearly all other American jurisdictions where prostitution is prohibited, it exists nonetheless and is in effect regulated through various spatially differentiated control strategies. Dallas, Texas, is an example of what has been called the "Control Model" (Reynolds). Here, police pressure is exerted to keep prostitution all but invisible in Dallas, except for some poorer neighborhoods. A certain amount of hotel and call girl/boy prostitution is tolerated as long as it remains confined to the convention trade and the more highly visible streetwalking is confined to poorer minority communities in the region.

San Francisco, a city that prides itself on its cosmopolitan tolerance, has been a long-time example of the "laissez-faire model" of prostitution regulation (Reynolds). One might describe this as a regime where nothing is legal but everything is permitted. Historically, overt street prostitution has flourished in the Tenderloin district and certain other lower-income neighborhoods. It is periodically suppressed by police pressure, just enough to minimize unsightliness that might offend the tourist trade. Much like Western European regulatory policies, San Francisco police strategy has often been to prosecute incidents of theft and violence associated with street prostitution but not to pursue the sexual offenses themselves. Call services and other less visible forms of prostitution are only rarely targeted by vigorous police enforcement.

In the 1970s, the city of Boston decided to use zoning law to localize de jure the city's "adult businesses" within a single neighborhood called the "Combat Zone." Although prostitution was not legalized, it was to a large extent effectively enclosed along with adult cinemas, pornography shops, and massage parlors. This extremely influential strategy has been called the "zoning model" (Reynolds). It sets up something rather like a sexual version of the "free trade zones" that exist in seaports and border towns, exempted from ordinary tariffs and regulations. Such spatial concentration of sex-oriented business may in fact lead to greater efficiency for sexual commerce because of lower search and transaction costs. However, the zoning model's greatest influence has been as a strategy for localizing and managing the risks and externalities associated with prostitution and other sexual commerce.

In the 1990s, other cities (notably Portland, Oregon) have employed zoning in a different fashion. Rather than quarantining sexual commerce by zoning it into a specific urban area like Boston's Combat Zone, now zoning is used to exclude prostitutes by establishing "prostitution-free zones." Drawing upon new urban strategies such as business improvement districts and area-specific gang-abatement injunctions, people who have been identified as known prostitutes are legally banned from whole sections of the city. The "cleansing" of New York City's Times Square in the 1990s is another example of such exclusionary strategies.

These adaptations of zoning law for the suppression, displacement, and spatial regulation of vice are part of a broader policy shift from strictly criminal repression to a flexible mix of criminal and civil sanctions in the crafting of new regulatory regimes. Although no jurisdiction has maintained customer-arrest levels equal to the arrest of prostitutes, there has been a new attention to this disparity. Some cities, notably San Francisco and Portland, have established programs modeled on so-called traffic schools for automobile driving infractions. Although these "therapeutic" programs are in principle available to prostitutes as well as to their customers, they are commonly referred to as "john schools" and have reportedly been little used by arrested prostitutes (Meier and Geis, pp. 52–53).


http://law.jrank.org/pages/1880/Prostitution-Regimes-prohibition-criminalization-regulation.html
 

General Gonad

Enlightened pervert
Dec 31, 2005
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A critical view of the Nevada model

I found this critical article:

http://www.ericacbarnett.com/2007/09/legalization_not_the_whole_ans.htm

Note, however, the comments on the article where they question the findings.

GG

Legalization: Not the Whole Answer

Like many feminists, I'm torn about legalizing prostitution. (I'll leave the pro and con arguments for others to make; they're pretty intuitive.) But if there's one thing a recent article in the UK's Guardian makes clear, it's that the current system in Nevada, the only place in America where brothels are legal, isn't working for women. During a two-year investigation, the Guardian reports, author Melissa Farley visited eight legal brothels in Nevada, interviewing 45 women and several brothel operators. The women reported horrific working conditions, including violence and sexual abuse, starvation, and loss of ordinary human rights.

According to the Guardian,

The brothel prostitutes often live in prison-like conditions, locked in or forbidden to leave.

"The physical appearance of these buildings is shocking," says Farley. "They look like wide trailers with barbed wire around them - little jails." The rooms all have panic buttons, but many women told her that they had experienced violent and sexual abuse from the customers and pimps.

"I saw a grated iron door in one brothel," says Farley. "The women's food was shoved through the door's steel bars between the kitchen and the brothel area. One pimp starved a woman he considered too fat. She made a friend outside the brothel who would throw food over the fence for her."

Additionally, brothel prostitutes are required to register with the state of Nevada; down the road, that registration could make it hard for a prostitute or former prostitute to get a job, health insurance, or child custody. Additionally, while prostitutes have to be tested for sexually transmitted diseases every year, there is no equivalent screening for johns. The women, who typically live in the brothel and work for 12 to 14 hours at a time, generally pocket only half of their money, and are expected to pay for their own condoms, wet wipes, and sheets and towels.

Brothel owners, law enforcement, and anti-woman laws make it extremely difficult for prostitutes to leave a brothel, either short-term or permanently.

Mary, a prostitute in a legal brothel for three years, outlines the restrictions. "You are not allowed to have your own car," she notes. "It's like [the pimp's] own little police state." ...

Sheriffs in some counties of Nevada also enforce practices that are illegal. In one city, for example, prostitutes are not allowed to leave the brothel after 5pm, are not permitted in bars, and, if entering a restaurant, must use a back door and be accompanied by a man. ...

Farley found a "shocking" lack of services for women in Nevada wishing to leave prostitution. "When prostitution is considered a legal job instead of a human rights violation," says Farley, "why should the state offer services for escape?" More than 80% of those interviewed told Farley they wanted to leave prostitution.

Outlawing prostitution hasn't worked and never will; as with drugs, porn, religion, and other controlled substances, demand creates a market, and the market creates supply. But without protections to prevent the financial and sexual exploitation of sex workers, legalized prostitution amounts to little more than state-sanctioned slavery and sexual abuse.

>>>So I guess the Nevada model is far from perfect.:eek:

GG
 
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General Gonad

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traveller_76 said:
Funny how you're willing to acknowledge it when an internet article says so. By the way, Jennifer Smarts doesn't exist.

The article appeared in the Guardian and it was heavily criticized as biased reporting. I have given you credit where credit is due.;)

GG

P.S. Then who is Jennifer Smarts cited in this article?:confused:
 

General Gonad

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Dec 31, 2005
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traveller_76 said:
A woman I made up, same like the organisation 'Prostitutes for the Legalization of Prostitution' and the demonstrations today, across North America, and the BBC reporter treated for shock. How bright of you to figure out it had something to do with Jennifer's 36DDs. Constable Leboeuf doesn't exist either.

Good one...you got me.;)

good night.

GG
 

beautydigger

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Oct 11, 2005
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rumpleforeskiin said:
And which advantages are these? The advantage of earning 60% of what men earn for similar work? The advantage of being denied entirely the right to work in certain jobs? The advantage of not being able to walk many streets alone after dark? The advantage of being accused of being suggestive after assaults? Of which advantages do you speak?
. "There is no institutional or private employer in the US today that openly discriminates against women. Barriers have been removed, but inequalities remain. Men continue to dominate areas such as engineering and the physical sciences. The stubborn persistence of inequalities in these professions has been explained by a fashionable aggregate of dogmatic beliefs. Male domination is invariably attributed to hostile climates, negative stereotypes, and imperceptible but all-encompassing societal biases. All of these explanations are invisible, undetectable, and therefore irrefutable. Implicit is the belief that human biology is infinitely malleable and that there are no inherent sex-based differences in abilities and inclinations–a view that is contrary to all scientific research and human knowledge. The process of educational and professional training is claimed to be analogous to a "pipeline" instead of a sorting operation. Women have to be pushed through the pipeline even if it runs contrary to their natural inclinations and temperaments. The nebulous concept of Diversity is invoked as sort of a pagan idol that we are supposed to worship without question".
 

beautydigger

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Oct 11, 2005
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rumpleforeskiin said:
Of which advantages do you speak?
Here's one you might be familiar with....
Women get paid big bucks for sex.
 

beautydigger

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Oct 11, 2005
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rumpleforeskiin said:
The advantage of being denied entirely the right to work in certain jobs?


Can you provide which jobs you are talking about?
 

General Gonad

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Dec 31, 2005
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beautydigger

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Getting back to the premise of this thread, here at merb I will be sent to the feminist gulags if I were to say feminists are primarily man haters. It appears that most SP’s are feminists, an SP will never admit she is a man hater here at merb, but she will voice other feminists values upon us.
 

happygolucky

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Aug 17, 2007
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beautydigger said:
Getting back to the premise of this thread, here at merb I will be sent to the feminist gulags if I were to say feminists are primarily man haters. It appears that most SP’s are feminists, an SP will never admit she is a man hater here at merb, but she will voice other feminists values upon us.

Exchange the word "feminist" for woman......

What person does not want equality for themselves, regardless of sex?

Why can't a woman want fairness in her life & why does that make her a man-hater?

What feminist values are bad? & how will just hearing her opinion make our lives worse?

Why can't we all be strong enough to just live our own lives for ourselves & help others to do the same?

Don't get me wrong, I will always be a male chauvinistic pig in my own way, I just don't see why a woman who wants the same freedoms as I enjoy, is a man-hater?
 

General Gonad

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Dec 31, 2005
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Not all feminists are radical man-haters

beautydigger said:
Getting back to the premise of this thread, here at merb I will be sent to the feminist gulags if I were to say feminists are primarily man haters. It appears that most SP’s are feminists, an SP will never admit she is a man hater here at merb, but she will voice other feminists values upon us.

So are gays primarily heterosexual haters?:rolleyes: Feminists come in all stripes. Some are a lot better at articulating and advancing the cause for feminism than others. My favorite one is Susan Moller Okin. I think all men should read her book, "Justice, Gender and the Family". Okin's brilliant analysis clearly demonstrates that social justice can never be reached as long as gender inequalities persist in the family structure. If you ever read this book, you'll come to appreciate feminism a lot more.;)

GG
 

beautydigger

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Oct 11, 2005
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happygolucky said:
What feminist values are bad? & how will just hearing her opinion make our lives worse?
If you read the first post, I do believe that prostitution degrades women is bad.
Also, I think you missed this part. " Is it a smart thing to have feminists and feminist sympathizers highly regarded in a community that encourages and celebrates prostitution"?
 

beautydigger

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Oct 11, 2005
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happygolucky said:
What person does not want equality for themselves, regardless of sex?
Try this one... one of the founders of the feminist movement

"Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice." - Andrea Dworkin
 

happygolucky

Banned
Aug 17, 2007
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beautydigger said:
Try this one... one of the founders of the feminist movement

"Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice." - Andrea Dworkin

This is just one view point, just like ONE man might believe that women should NOT be able to vote. It does not make all feminist misguided, just one & maybe only on this topic. If all feminist believed this, I would have to side with you, but there are so many kinds of feminists, most of them, like most of the people I know, are good & decent.

If you look hard enough you can find something wrong about everybody, we are all flawed. Still why not look for something beautiful?
 

beautydigger

Banned
Oct 11, 2005
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happygolucky said:
This is just one view point, just like ONE man might believe that women should NOT be able to vote. It does not make all feminist misguided, just one & maybe only on this topic. If all feminist believed this, I would have to side with you, but there are so many kinds of feminists, most of them, like most of the people I know, are good & decent.

If you look hard enough you can find something wrong about everybody, we are all flawed. Still why not look for something beautiful?
Every form of feminism today was spawned by this type of empowerment.
Back then there was no Radical feminism, just feminism.
 
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