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Apple releases iPad...

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Techman

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Anything you say, Boss. Apple, however, considers the first day of sale to be April 3, the day you could walk in to Best Buy or an Apple store and pick one up. But who are they to argue with you?

Apple were accepting orders and charging credit cards on March 12. If you are accepting payment for something, then that's the first day of sale. It was the same bullshit they tried to pull on the first day of in-store availability claiming that it sold X amount on that day when in fact that included all the pre-sale numbers as well. It's just standard public relations bullshit. there were also websites claiming numbers as high as 1.8 million units sold up until Apple released their sales figures.

Let the hype continue.
 

rumpleforeskiin

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Apple were accepting orders and charging credit cards on March 12. If you are accepting payment for something, then that's the first day of sale.
Again, I'm thrilled to learn that you've been placed in charge of determining when the iPad went on sale. Oh, and for the record, my card was charged on April 2, when the iPad shipped. Unlike Microsoft, Apple doesn't charge before it ships or release operating systems before they're ready.

I'm sure you've got a long list of tech products that sold 1 million in under one month. BTW, from conversations I've had here in PMs and with friends at home, the iPad is drawing great interest from those who've never owned an Apple product. I'm sure you've got some "proof" that this isn't true.

It also looks like Apple may have some 'splainin' to do in the near future because the US FTC and DoJ are considering launching an anti-trust inquiry against Apple and their restrictive practices regarding their developer policies for the iPhone/iPad OS platform.
Would this be because Apple has a monopoly on the tablet market?

Let the envy continue.
 
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Techman

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No, they have a monopoly on the iPad market and they are preventing developers from having the choice to make their applications available for multiple platforms. Why would I be envious of a product that requires ownership of a real computer to make it functional and upgradeable? Why is it so difficult for you to understand that not everyone goes blank eyed and brain dead when Apple comes out with a new toy?

As for tech products...I'm sure that you would have to consider an operating system a tech product. Windows 7 sold over 100 million copies in under 6 months and is forecast to reach around 300 million by the end of the year.

Other than yourself, I don't know anyone who has shown even the slightest interest in buying an iPad. I've already gone over the reasons why in other posts and see no reason to do it again here. But then again, most of my friends are somewhat knowledgeable when it comes to computers so I guess that explains the difference.
 

Merlot

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Hello all,

As for tech products...I'm sure that you would have to consider an operating system a tech product. Windows 7 sold over 100 million copies in under 6 months and is forecast to reach around 300 million by the end of the year.

http://www.slashgear.com/74-ipad-buyers-were-mac-owners-66-had-iphones-claims-analyst-0580394/

Apple may describe the iPad as a new segment, but are they also carving out a new audience for the company? According to Piper Jaffray analyst Gene Munster, first-day sales of the new tablet don’t seem to suggest that’s the case. He interviewed 448 iPad early-adopters and discovered that 74-percent were existing Mac users and 66-percent had an iPhone. Just 4-percent expected the iPad to replace their existing computer, and only 1-percent thought it might replace their iPhone.

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive..._young_the_social_the_pop-culture_addicts.php

However, when Rapleaf delved into the ages of the fans, they discovered that iPad fans were a lot younger than your typical Facebook user. While 61% of the U.S. Facebook market is under 35, nearly 50% of the iPad fans were between 18 and 25.

No doubt the iPad is a very successful and profitable product. But if 74% of its buyers are previous Apple customers and Apple only had about 10% of overall the computer/tech market up to the end of 2009, then any overall market gain will be minimal. In the last few days I've asked many who are about 16-25 years old one question. "So, have you bought an iPad yet?" The answers have been: "it's too big, my iPhone does a lot more, not for $500, what for, I don't want to be stuck buying Apple stuff?" If that attitude represents much of the 18-25 year old demographic who are 50% of iPad buyers then it is very doubtful sales will go over 10 million in a year...though that number would surely be considered extremely successful. In fact projections say 2.5-5 million for 2010. Again, bravo...but nothing near sales of Windows 7.

Cheers,

Merlot
 
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Merlot

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Hello all,

As for tech products...I'm sure that you would have to consider an operating system a tech product. Windows 7 sold over 100 million copies in under 6 months and is forecast to reach around 300 million by the end of the year.

http://www.slashgear.com/74-ipad-buyers-were-mac-owners-66-had-iphones-claims-analyst-0580394/

Apple may describe the iPad as a new segment, but are they also carving out a new audience for the company? According to Piper Jaffray analyst Gene Munster, first-day sales of the new tablet don’t seem to suggest that’s the case. He interviewed 448 iPad early-adopters and discovered that 74-percent were existing Mac users and 66-percent had an iPhone. Just 4-percent expected the iPad to replace their existing computer, and only 1-percent thought it might replace their iPhone.

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive..._young_the_social_the_pop-culture_addicts.php

However, when Rapleaf delved into the ages of the fans, they discovered that iPad fans were a lot younger than your typical Facebook user. While 61% of the U.S. Facebook market is under 35, nearly 50% of the iPad fans were between 18 and 25.

No doubt the iPad is a very successful and profitable product. But if 74% of its buyers are previous Apple customers and Apple only had about 10% of the tech market up to the end of 2009, then any overall market gain will be minimal. In the last few days I've asked many who are about 16-25 years old one question. "So, have you bought an iPad yet?" The answers have been: "it's too big, my iPhone does a lot more, not for $500, what for, I don't want to be stuck buying Apple stuff?" If that attitude represents much of the 18-25 year old demographic who are 50% of iPad buyers then it is very doubtful sales will go over 10 million in a year...though that number would surely be considered extremely successful. In fact projections say 2.5-5 million for 2010. Again Bravo...but far far below sales of Windows 7...even if they are not truly comparable products.

And, even though interesting at first, this whole thread has become childish & right down stupid. Just my two cents.

It's a "lovely" exercise between a tech expert and an Apple investor.

Cheers,

Merlot
 
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Dee

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I'm not quite sure what I'm permitted to post here... I don't and won't reciprocate in the personal attack department in this thread... I will honour the Mod's request not to cut and paste... I'll include links as others have done... if this is offensive, Mods please let me know and I'll delete the links... my personal opinion is based on my experience but I also learn from those who know more then I.... for example Techman and comments on the Web...

This link provides a pro and con discussion on the WiFi iPad vs the 3G/WiFi model.... is it worth the extra cost? My opinion: it sure is... on my iPhone I'm constantly usually the 3G as WiFi is so often not available where I am and want to use the web.

http://mashable.com/2010/05/02/ipad-3g-review/

Here's an interesting and fun poll... you will see that Flash beats HTML5 - I'm a bit surprised by this but here it is:

http://mashable.com/2010/05/01/apple-adobe-poll/

Here is an intelligent and interesting article entitled:

"Apple Didn’t Kill Flash, HTML5 Did"

.. it speaks to mobile devices..

http://mashable.com/2010/04/29/apple-flash-html5/

Let's keep the conversation civil, recognize that there is more then one point of view and learn.
 

Below500k

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Hey y'all, getting testy again in here (pun intended) ?

I'll chime in on a couple...

Flash is dead. In the first place, Flash was never supposed to be used the way it is currently most popular, wrapping video. It was/is a vector (that is line art not motion picture) animation program that had web interaction elements built into it. And it was good at it. It filled a great niche because at the time, the only other alternative was animated gif's that were beyond cheesy and large in size (remember bandwidth was slow at that time), or the more serious Java which is also a bitch on the client side. A few years later, the byproduct of wrapping those animations was a video compressor that also served a great niche in that most browsers could deal with it in a respectable way... but none of them were very happy about it because it was, and still is a resource hog in comparison to any other NATIVE browser tech. It is for all intents and purposes a Javascript wrapper that interacts via a brute force plug in. The only reason it is acceptable is that the alternatives were no better, and had less features. Until HTML5.

In my opinion, Adobe bought MM to kill it, not to further develop it and will let Flash die the way that it did it's other rival/competing products (Dreamweaver, Freehand and Fireworks). Adobe never "got" the net too well. I could tell you stories of conversations I had with Adobe people about their thoughts on the web 15yrs ago when they firmly believed that Acrobat would be what Flash eventually became, but that would be a longer post that would bore the cocks off of everyone except maybe TM.

Anyway, mark the time, within 2yrs., Flash will be non-existent, except for cheapskates like TM's clients who will refuse to spend a couple of grand to have someone from India spend 2 weeks to redo their oh so precious interactive sites <grin>.

And as a very heavy web user I say good riddance - I cannot tell you how many times I've cursed those horridly developed useless intro page animations. Just because you can add swirling logos synchronized to midi versions of Green Day "music" does not mean that you should. God I hate what flash has allowed poor web designers to do. And for the record, yes, I want to skip the intro.

So, to bring this back home, I think it is great that Apple is once again taking the lead on this. I remember when everyone was outraged about that funny colored computer that (GASP!) didn't even have a floppy drive. No one would buy it, there are much faster machines, you can't even get in there and add a card to it. Make no mistake about it Apple's decision to remove floppies was the single biggest factor in the consumer adoption of all of the removable storage that we use today. I'm not saying that they would have never been, but that move was a landmark in computer history. As was the iPod (for the music industry, and higher capacity micro drives and NAND memory). As was the iPhone (for multi-touch). Not the first, but just the right mix at the right time.

So get this straight, weather you like it or not, the iPad is just another one of these devices. Kindle is dead. All other tablets, um, well, unless you are a medical or military professional you've probably never even heard of any, let alone used one. The right mix, at the right time.

Apple invented the concept of the personal computer with a minimal lifespan that was meant to be used by people who do not care about it's inner workings. No tech. It is a vision for the end user, period. They had a great slogan that sums up their philosophy, The hub of your digital life. Not of your work, not of your relationship with your technician nor a software writers livelihood. They were talking about how average people can use a well designed appliance to do cool things easier via the simplest interface possible.

The iPad is just the next thing. You should get used to that type of appliance. Remember that we are the first of our generation (computer users). Talk to your grandfather about steam locomotives and I'm sure he'll have a twinkle in his eye and talk romantically about what a privilege it was. These days we are pissed that it still takes 4 hrs and costs 50 because we just can't stomach driving the 401.
 
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hornypilgrim

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wow, announcing the death of flash??? what was it that Huckleberry Finn said about his own death? Do some people really it's between flash and h.264??? flash will play h.264 just fine, thank you. It's about locking in the developers for making animation/apps for their platform, not about which codec is being used.

Google h.264 in flash vs the video tag, and your will find, surprise surprise, the resource usage for the two are the same. Don't believe everything you read.

No, I 'didn't talk first hand with Adobe folks', <sigh>

As for the ultimate winner of the tablet market - my prediction: forget msft, their offerings are nothing but bloatware. Vista/7 is really unusable is you are serious about doing work on your cpt.

Jobs never learned, so he will lose big, Again. The reason, Again, is he tried, Again, for a closed eco system. The more open eco system will win, Again. However, the winner does not even have one single commercial device on the market yet.

Google will win while aapl will be left with, Again, single digit market share selling to fan boyz while the whole world passes them by. And adobe will keep on selling their CSx by having an export to Chrome after killing the export to iSomething.

Support closed eco systems and the end price is you pay through the nose for the same functionality. Support the open eco/source system, and you end up with cheap powerful solutions from multiple sources. Examples abound: firefox, vlcplayer, and yes, even this bulletin board + the internet that it runs on. But you will have to actually put out the efforts to 'choose' for yourself, not dumb clicking on viral links etc.
 

rumpleforeskiin

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You can't even get the iPad anywhere in Canada. So what is this topic doing on a Canadian board?.
It will be soon, Doc. Apple had no idea it was going to sell as fast as it has and had to delay the international launch by a month.

Hell, there's a baseball thread and Canada doesn't have a major league team, but I don't see you complaining about that.
 
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Techman

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Dec 23, 2004
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Below500K said:
Make no mistake about it Apple's decision to remove floppies was the single biggest factor in the consumer adoption of all of the removable storage that we use today.

Wait...let me get this right...Apple with less than 5% of the world's computers drove the other 95% to drop floppy drives and adopt the removable storage that's become common today? Yeah...OK, if you say so. Another example of how Apple fanboyz are so high on themselves.

hornypilgrim said:
Vista/7 is really unusable is you are serious about doing work on your cpt.

Yeah, right. That's why so many people use it, because it's unusable. I guess you must be a Linux fan. And if you actually think that there will ever be a Cloud version of Adobe CS anything to run on Google's Chrome OS, which is really just a browser with everything else running from the 'net, you're really living in a dream world.

Some people are so out of touch with reality it isn't funny.
 

bond_james_bond

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Below500k

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Sorry you don't understand TM. Flash will die not because of it's support of a format or not, it will die for two simple reasons... developers are able to do what it does - for the web - in a fully open, more suitable system for free with HTML5 - and - because Adobe's has no real use for it, it is not really a core component in it's business strategy. And just to clarify two points, I am talking about it's web adoption, and if Adobe does not do something drastic to it, like change it's technology and/or make it's application (all but) free.

And in case you doubt it, as your personality seems to be prone to, many years ago I had the good fortune to spent a couple of informal evenings with Warnock and the Knoll brothers in San Fran during a Macworld exhibition. Kai Kruse, a prominent photoshop filter creator, hosted a couple of dinners. I was at the exhibition and chatted Kruse up. At the time Kruse was the rock star of the graphic world, he hosted a couple of diners and an after party at the science museum where he played with his band. Sent a limo to my hotel to pick me up... sigh, those were the days!

As for Apple's influence, you can block your ears all you want, that does not make your opinion valid. Do some analysis that goes beyond your like-minded haters much beloved but shallow market share numbers. Look for historical data about firewire's adoption in devices, rewritable cd's sales, and external usb drives popping up, and tell me where you see the first dramatic spike. To be clear again, I did not say anything about Apple DRIVING anything, those are your twists.

I'm talking about industry influence. Actually that influence reached far beyond just the computer market. A year or so after that iMac came out, you could not swing a cat without hitting something that was colored translucent plastic. And in a single swipe, the mp3 playing device became known as an iPod - it is now the vernacular.

There are only a few companies in any sector that can claim that, and Apple is one of them. Just to be clear, I never said that they ultimately fully profited from that influence. No one has ever claimed that Jobs has been the best businessman, nor that he has not had his share of bizarre business decisions. But like Miles, or Coltrane, or others of that caliber of inventiveness and fortitude, the decision was made to do what he believed in and loved. Jazz greats will never sell as much as the Jonas Brothers. But to question or take away their influence on the world because of that market share? Puhleese.
 
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rumpleforeskiin

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Can Anyone Compete with the iPad?

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/ptech/05/04/tablet.competition.ipad/index.html?hpt=C2

"If you want to buy a consumer-friendly tablet computer today and you don't want to purchase Apple's iPad, you're pretty much out of luck.

The iPad currently has no real competitors, and the touch-screen computer is so far ahead of the market that it has some gadget makers running back to the drawing boards, according to technology industry analysts."
---
'Apple's success is "causing a lot of tablet entrants to rethink what they're bringing to market and how it's being used by consumers," said Van Baker, an analyst at Gartner Inc.

Baker's company predicted that, of the 10.5 million tablet computers he expects to be sold this year, the majority will be from Apple. On Monday, Apple announced it had sold 1 million iPads in the 28 days since the gadget went on sale.'
 

Techman

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Sorry you don't understand TM. Flash will die not because of it's support of a format or not, it will die for two simple reasons... developers are able to do what it does - for the web - in a fully open, more suitable system for free with HTML5 - and - because Adobe's has no real use for it, it is not really a core component in it's business strategy. And just to clarify two points, I am talking about it's web adoption, and if Adobe does not do something drastic to it, like change it's technology and/or make it's application (all but) free.

And in case you doubt it, as your personality seems to be prone to, many years ago I had the good fortune to spent a couple of informal evenings with Warnock and the Knoll brothers in San Fran during a Macworld exhibition. Kai Kruse, a prominent photoshop filter creator, hosted a couple of dinners. I was at the exhibition and chatted Kruse up. At the time Kruse was the rock star of the graphic world, he hosted a couple of diners and an after party at the science museum where he played with his band. Sent a limo to my hotel to pick me up... sigh, those were the days!

As for Apple's influence, you can block your ears all you want, that does not make your opinion valid. Do some analysis that goes beyond your like-minded haters much beloved but shallow market share numbers. Look for historical data about firewire's adoption in devices, rewritable cd's sales, and external usb drives popping up, and tell me where you see the first dramatic spike. To be clear again, I did not say anything about Apple DRIVING anything, those are your twists.

I'm talking about industry influence. Actually that influence reached far beyond just the computer market. A year or so after that iMac came out, you could not swing a cat without hitting something that was colored translucent plastic. And in a single swipe, the mp3 playing device became known as an iPod - it is now the vernacular.

There are only a few companies in any sector that can claim that, and Apple is one of them. Just to be clear, I never said that they ultimately fully profited from that influence. No one has ever claimed that Jobs has been the best businessman, nor that he has not had his share of bizarre business decisions. But like Miles, or Coltrane, or others of that caliber of inventiveness and fortitude, the decision was made to do what he believed in and loved. Jazz greats will never sell as much as the Jonas Brothers. But to question or take away their influence on the world because of that market share? Puhleese.

Yes, I remember Kai and the Kai Power Tool filter packs for Photoshop. I used quite a few of them back in the day. Doesn't really have anything to do with this discussion, though.:confused:

Firewire was never very widely adopted in anything other than video cameras as it was never really adopted as a PC standard the way USB was , and it was the universality of the USB connection that led Apple to include that connectivity in it's products years after it had become standard in PCs. It was also USB, a PC standard. that drove the proliferation of cheap USB expansion drives as well as other USB connected components. It had nothing to do with Apple. Next thing you know, when Apple finally get around to offering Blu-ray drives in their computers you'll be pointing to that as the key point in Blu-ray evolution.:rolleyes:

By the way, I'm not a lover of Flash. It can be a pain in the ass sometimes and it's one of the reasons I love using IE8 64bit browser because Flash can't run on it.

As far as the influence of Apple products in popular culture, I would say that it's more the success of the Apple marketing machine than it is the success of their products. Their products rarely prove to be anything new, they are generally old ideas in a new package with a great marketing machine behind them. The iPod didn't create the popularity of MP3, Napster did. Music piracy also did more to drive the sales of rewritable CDs than any computer manufacturer ever did. The iPod wasn't the first MP3 player and in fact they stole some of their technology from Creative Labs and were sued over it and lost. What Apple did was see an opportunity and took advantage of it after other companies had fought, and won, the legal battles over MP3.

The iPad is nothing new, despite what Steve Jobs likes to pretend. It's a jumbo iPhone, minus the phone and camera. But once again Apple has great marketing, which when combined with their established customer/fan base has led to a ton of hype over a product which is a simple evolution of already existing products.

I have nothing against the iPad as a product. If it fits your needs and you think you'll get your money's worth out of it, great! Buy it, enjoy it, have fun with it. But people who are pushing it as if it's the greatest invention in history are, to be honest, ignorant. It's not my fault that certain people haven't the slightest idea of the history of computing and think nothing ever existed until Apple brought their version of something to market. Whether it's ignorance, blind faith in Apple or simple stupidity I really don't know or even care anymore. I am not including you in this group as you are obviously very knowledgeable when it comes to these discussions and it's a pleasure debating with you.

I just have a very low tolerance for hype and bullshit. For example, I get annoyed everytime I hear the ad on Team 990 that claims Chez Paree is 'Montreal's oldest gentlemen's club' when clubs like SuperSexe and Wanda's have been around much longer. It's pure bullshit but some people never question anything and just believe everything they read or hear or are just blind followers. Many Apple fans fall into that category and you can't have a valid discussion with them because Apple can never be wrong in their eyes.

This is my final post on this subject. The Apple fans can go ahead and turn this into yet another Steve Jobs love in and misinformation festival. :cool:
 

Doc Holliday

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Hell, there's a baseball thread and Canada doesn't have a major league team, but I don't see you complaining about that.

Is that so? Where's that team called the Blue Jays from? Yeah, the team that's 1.5 games ahead of the stinkin' Red Sox? :D

I've been saying since opening day that the Jays suck & will continue to suck, but i never expected the Red Sox to suck even more than the Blue Jays do! LOL!!!!

(It's a good thing for Boston that Baltimore is in that same division)
 
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Doc Holliday

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I just have a very low tolerance for hype and bullshit. For example, I get annoyed everytime I hear the ad on Team 990 that claims Chez Paree is 'Montreal's oldest gentlemen's club' when clubs like SuperSexe and Wanda's have been around much longer. It's pure bullshit but some people never question anything and just believe everything they read or hear or are just blind followers.

I agree. I miss the good ol' days when Chez' was possibly the best stripclub in town. I discovered it in the early 90's & always stopped by on a regular basis whenever i was in town. The place rocked!! These days, it reminds me of being at a funeral home on many nights......sad. :-(
 

rumpleforeskiin

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I have nothing against the iPad as a product.

This is my final post on this subject. The Apple fans can go ahead and turn this into yet another Steve Jobs love in and misinformation festival. :cool:
if indeed this is your final post, the misinformation will finally end. On the subject of misinformation, there has been no greater misinformation in this thread than "I have nothing against the iPad as a product."

You are right about one thing though. Apple didn't invent the GUI; all they did was perfect it. They didn't invent the MP3 player; all they did was perfect it. They didn't invent the tablet computer; all they did was perfect it, and perfected it to such a degree that within one month both Microsoft and HP have killed their plans to try to compete with it.

And, by the way, I understand your feelings toward Apple. If I made my living fixing broken computers, I'd hate Apple, too.
 
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rumpleforeskiin

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...but i never expected the Red Sox to suck even more than the Blue Jays do! LOL!!!!
Temporary, my man, temporary. I thought I might get a rise out of you.

I agree. I miss the good ol' days when Chez' was possibly the best stripclub in town. I discovered it in the early 90's & always stopped by on a regular basis whenever i was in town. The place rocked!! These days, it reminds me of being at a funeral home on many nights......sad. :-(
First strip club I ever went to was Chez Paree, about five years ago, in the company of one Doc Holliday.

Makes me wonder if it'll be as popular in Canada as it is currently in the States. Any idea how much it'll sell for?
The bottom end MacBook sells for $999 in the states, $1099 in Canada. I'm gonna guess that the low end iPad will cost no more than $550 CDN. That's actually a little more than it should sell for given the current exchange rate. Should be about $510. I suspect the reason they're exceeding the exchange rate is to give somebody we both know something to rant about.
 
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Doc Holliday

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First strip club I ever went to was Chez Paree, about five years ago, in the company of one Doc Holliday.

Was it that long ago? Wow! Time really does fly.......

Anyways, Club Wandas & Club Downtown still remain my all-time favorite stripclubs in Mtl.....back in the ol' days, i mean. I rarely go to stripclubs (a.k.a. Cash Grab Clubs) anymore.
 
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