Bradley Manning is now Chelsea Manning
http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/22/us/bradley-manning/index.html?hpt=hp_c2
http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/22/us/bradley-manning/index.html?hpt=hp_c2
Bradley Manning gets 35 years in U.S. WikiLeaks case
- Thread starter Iznogoud
- Start date
BC,
What is it you want? Do you need the Empire State Building to come down on thousands of people so you can feel comfortable about his guilt and sentence. Why is it some people seem to need the gore of death and destruction to get what a guy like this did. Does anyone really need twisted burned out buildings and scattered body parts to understand what is at stake. Does prevention change what this guy really is? A traitor...and aid to terrorists.
You clearly aren't judging the case on it's own merits the same way you accuse the government of doing when you are making it very clear your own agenda really has nothing to do with this case and is just an opportunity for a general anti-U.S. rant.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162...ning-i-want-to-live-as-a-woman-named-chelsea/
It may not be relevant, but get ready to call this "guy"...miss. I have no firm idea what conflict goes through a person who wants to change sex, but I would imagine anyone in that state of being was having inner conflicts is probably not the right person to be responsible for releasing military secrets, even if it wasn't treason.
Damn straight! He...hmmm...is lucky that won't happen.
,Merlot
So, luck huh? 700,000 files are released and you call it luck no one got hurt or killed? Or maybe there was nothing in those files to hurt or kill anyone over. Maybe all the names and locations were blacked out. Or maybe no one has got the balls to do any crimes towards any names in those 700,000 files. But luck? come on.
You guys may remember that 2-3 weeks ago, there was this big scare all over the world (brrrrr chilling to the bone) USA embassies closed throughout the middle east, CNN annoucing "terror threats keep the world on edge", big big scare. So what happened? nothing. So does that mean that was no threat? No thats not what it means but it doesnt mean that there was a threat. I guess we all got "lucky" nothing happened.
You guys may remember that 2-3 weeks ago, there was this big scare all over the world (brrrrr chilling to the bone) USA embassies closed throughout the middle east, CNN annoucing "terror threats keep the world on edge", big big scare. So what happened? nothing. So does that mean that was no threat? No thats not what it means but it doesnt mean that there was a threat. I guess we all got "lucky" nothing happened.
For me the issue is what is classified as a 'Military Secret'. Things like weapon specs, troop movements and plans are clearly military secrets. But when a crime or questionable behavior is covered up by classifying it as a military secret, does revealing it make you a traitor or a whistleblower? Gun camera footage from an Apache killing a reuters reporter is not really a military secret, but does the government get punished for using secrecy to cover it up? Should a crime be swept under the rug because public knowledge of it could empower your enemies? There are secret courts to invade your privacy, but are there secret courts punishing people for secret crimes?
He took an oath. Ok, so this oath is to do anything the gov't tells you, dont question it just do it. So anyone who took that oath could commit any crime as long as its to protect whatever that oath will tell him/her to protect. Sounds like brainwashing. Also sounds good if you want to shoot a movie where the bad guys are in the gov't.
So again, I will state what the USA is supposed to stand for, Freedom for everyone regardless of gender, race, religious views and whatever. Justice for everyone, no one is above the law and everyone is innocent until proven guilty. The pursuit of happiness. So we should all know this is all phoney balloney, you call it anti-US rant if you want, I call it hypocrisy. And I sure would like to apply this standard to anyone or organisation. Nobody likes and hypocrite, why should I like my hypocrite gov't? My gov't is the canadian one and its not better over there. Theyre just lapdogs for the US.
Name game for you guys. How do you call an american defending america? a patriot
How do you call anybody else defending their homeland? Insurgents
I also have a tv game for you. Just watch american television at nights if you can and tell me how many class acts you can spot. If you think the FDA is there to protect "the people" how come all those class acts against x y z products to get your penis hard, get your pressure down or help you get through pregnancy but leaves your baby deformed or even dead, please call now and you may be entitled to a big cash settlement. Exemples abound for hypocrisy but please by all means, believe it all blindy. Like that traitor in the Matrix says "Ignorance is bliss".
So again, I will state what the USA is supposed to stand for, Freedom for everyone regardless of gender, race, religious views and whatever. Justice for everyone, no one is above the law and everyone is innocent until proven guilty. The pursuit of happiness. So we should all know this is all phoney balloney, you call it anti-US rant if you want, I call it hypocrisy. And I sure would like to apply this standard to anyone or organisation. Nobody likes and hypocrite, why should I like my hypocrite gov't? My gov't is the canadian one and its not better over there. Theyre just lapdogs for the US.
Name game for you guys. How do you call an american defending america? a patriot
How do you call anybody else defending their homeland? Insurgents
I also have a tv game for you. Just watch american television at nights if you can and tell me how many class acts you can spot. If you think the FDA is there to protect "the people" how come all those class acts against x y z products to get your penis hard, get your pressure down or help you get through pregnancy but leaves your baby deformed or even dead, please call now and you may be entitled to a big cash settlement. Exemples abound for hypocrisy but please by all means, believe it all blindy. Like that traitor in the Matrix says "Ignorance is bliss".
While true he never killed anyone directly, his outing of that agent (Valerie Plame) led to informants getting caught & in some cases it led to their execution. We all know that Dick Cheney & Karl Rove were behind this scandal, but Libby was the one who wound up taking the blame. He was a scapegoat. But he was still partly to blame for what happened & deserved a harsher penality. Outing a spy, in my book, is no different than spying against your own country.
Doc,
I was writing about the difference between Manning's sentence and Libby's. I'm not making excuses for what he did or try to diminish it. What he did (Libby) was serious and got (in my opinion) what he deserved, he and Cheney were/are very close. Libby decided to keep his mouth shut and not involve anyone else and was betting Cheney would get him a pardon.
As for what Manning did, although nobody really knows exactly what information he revealed I suspect the potential damage is much worse, hence the 35-year sentence. And as i stated earlier, he's lucky he didn't get life. So now he's saying I wasn't in my right mind because I'm actually a woman. BS, right from wrong is black and white no matter what your going through in your personal life, unless your schizophrenic.
Anybody dead yet from 700,000 stolen files? Im still waiting for a victim name. While waiting, I searched google with "victims of bradley manning" and all that popped up was the opposite... Bradley manning victim.
Damm that hermaphrodite monster, I hope he doesnt reproduce himself with herself, thatd be fucked up. Also, everybody knows the world is a fair place, for the just, where virtue is always rewarded and "bad guys" always punished, crime doesnt pay people!! get that through your thick skulls. NB : that was sarcasm, just to be sure
Damm that hermaphrodite monster, I hope he doesnt reproduce himself with herself, thatd be fucked up. Also, everybody knows the world is a fair place, for the just, where virtue is always rewarded and "bad guys" always punished, crime doesnt pay people!! get that through your thick skulls. NB : that was sarcasm, just to be sure
If you honestly cannot understand how revealing military secrets puts peoples lives in danger then that's pretty sad. Who's to say it hasn't happened already, more than once, or in 2 weeks from now or 2 years from now.
When you sign up for military service you sign up for the whole 9 yards, you don't get to pick and choose. He chose wrong, he got his day in court, he/she's in jail. End of story, or so we hope, because the extent of the damage Manning did will never be revealed and I don't doubt there will be some.
True justice would be to give him his hormone therapy and once complete let him loose among the prison population. I've always been for allowing pedophiles this same treatment.
When you sign up for military service you sign up for the whole 9 yards, you don't get to pick and choose. He chose wrong, he got his day in court, he/she's in jail. End of story, or so we hope, because the extent of the damage Manning did will never be revealed and I don't doubt there will be some.
True justice would be to give him his hormone therapy and once complete let him loose among the prison population. I've always been for allowing pedophiles this same treatment.
Ill play your little game deboner but for this one post. If im a guy thats working for the CIA NSA, or what ever covert fucking triple letters acronyms you want to come up with, and that im doing illegal stuff for the gov't "of the people" without "the people's" fucking consent or anyone's for that matter, burried under a web of lies, well yeah I want Manning to hang. Do I understand now? Yeah i understand that when under fire i'll basically push anything under the bus to save my hide. Now, do you understand that? Soldiers dont do that but politicians and fucking desk riders, you bet they will, like they did to that other guy they talked about in this thread, the Libby guy.
Do you understand that none of these behind the curtain decision making power and war mongerer wont be prosecuted for anything? even less go to jail, theyll just laugh it off "hey Georgy do ya rememba when we sent plenty of good US troops into Iraq to make money off the destruction of that country and dont forget securing that precious oil line oh yeah and we almost got those WMDs cause im pretty sure I saw them from here" so said Rumsfeld to Bush. Do you understand that lives are put in danger when Da Sarge tells you to follow orders and get yo punk ass to Iraq, bring those suckas freedom. You do know that soldiers died over there? without the help of Manning. Hmm that was only Iraq, before that there was... jeez dude, go there http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations then try and find another nations with such a record.
Have you seen the movie Team America from south park creators? oh right its just a comedy, what to these guys know? theyre moving fucking puppets, this cant be serious! Oh but the message was, just like the Simpsons, Family guy, American dad, all stupid cartoons right? yeah theyre fucking cartoons and theyre about the only ones left with some kind of real free speech and saying to the poeple watching, "youre prolly a dumb fat american, paying your bills until you cant but as long as you got football, tv and your fucking beer everything is good and we'll just have a good laugh together about since theres not much we can do".
So keep believing Manning is a monster and a mass murderer, traitor, gay, transgendre cause tv told you so and have a good life with your 6 years old cognitive powers.
Do you understand that none of these behind the curtain decision making power and war mongerer wont be prosecuted for anything? even less go to jail, theyll just laugh it off "hey Georgy do ya rememba when we sent plenty of good US troops into Iraq to make money off the destruction of that country and dont forget securing that precious oil line oh yeah and we almost got those WMDs cause im pretty sure I saw them from here" so said Rumsfeld to Bush. Do you understand that lives are put in danger when Da Sarge tells you to follow orders and get yo punk ass to Iraq, bring those suckas freedom. You do know that soldiers died over there? without the help of Manning. Hmm that was only Iraq, before that there was... jeez dude, go there http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations then try and find another nations with such a record.
Have you seen the movie Team America from south park creators? oh right its just a comedy, what to these guys know? theyre moving fucking puppets, this cant be serious! Oh but the message was, just like the Simpsons, Family guy, American dad, all stupid cartoons right? yeah theyre fucking cartoons and theyre about the only ones left with some kind of real free speech and saying to the poeple watching, "youre prolly a dumb fat american, paying your bills until you cant but as long as you got football, tv and your fucking beer everything is good and we'll just have a good laugh together about since theres not much we can do".
So keep believing Manning is a monster and a mass murderer, traitor, gay, transgendre cause tv told you so and have a good life with your 6 years old cognitive powers.
Hooboy
I removed a post much like that last one by deboner because frankly, you show no sign of lucid analytical thinking. It's not that the basic opinion you are posting couldn't have some legitimacy, it's that the basis of your opinion is coming from nonsense. Team America from south park creators, Simpsons, Family guy, American dad, most of these have very good intelligent satire based real events and situations. However, anyone who would consider putting forth these as a source of real facts to make a serious argument and use it to judge the real situation is badly lacking in the ability to identify true credible information.
You're deliberately distorting nearly everything you refer to like a propagandist then coloring it with the worst self-serving ignorant stereotypes. I would say get yourself into some primary source documents and try to learn something from honest serious researchers who don't have a political stake on either side, but your posts show you have no will for that...and indeed prefer to avoid FACTS.
By the way, if you knew anything you'd know your inference about the innocence of soldiers is grossly uniformed to the max.
As for Manning, he was trained in what to expect from his responsibilities and he knew from the start that military or any government intelligence would have a river of dirty secrets, yet he chose the job. He knew precisely what the consequences would be for revealing classified documents. Instead of resigning or transferring he CHOSE to trade his personal freedom for the consequences.
Good luck,
Merlot
I removed a post much like that last one by deboner because frankly, you show no sign of lucid analytical thinking. It's not that the basic opinion you are posting couldn't have some legitimacy, it's that the basis of your opinion is coming from nonsense. Team America from south park creators, Simpsons, Family guy, American dad, most of these have very good intelligent satire based real events and situations. However, anyone who would consider putting forth these as a source of real facts to make a serious argument and use it to judge the real situation is badly lacking in the ability to identify true credible information.
You're deliberately distorting nearly everything you refer to like a propagandist then coloring it with the worst self-serving ignorant stereotypes. I would say get yourself into some primary source documents and try to learn something from honest serious researchers who don't have a political stake on either side, but your posts show you have no will for that...and indeed prefer to avoid FACTS.
By the way, if you knew anything you'd know your inference about the innocence of soldiers is grossly uniformed to the max.
As for Manning, he was trained in what to expect from his responsibilities and he knew from the start that military or any government intelligence would have a river of dirty secrets, yet he chose the job. He knew precisely what the consequences would be for revealing classified documents. Instead of resigning or transferring he CHOSE to trade his personal freedom for the consequences.
Good luck,
Merlot
Right, the Simpsons and the cartoons I was reffering to are the basis of my opinion... and you have "lucid analytical thinking"?? O...kay. Is that all you took from my post? So everything I wrote is false, distorted truth, propaganda? Even the link I posted I guess, did I invent that "US armed conflict" list as well? Really, USA went into Iraq to bring them freedom, you believe that? Are you sanely saying that im distorting reality for my own gain on an escort review board? and that the US gov't is always straight up with the people theyre suppose to serve? Lee Harvey Oswald single handedly shot JFK too? cause thats the official version. jeez, wake the fuck up dude. The only fact you guys have is that Manning leaked 700,000 files.
Is it a fact too that no plane crashed into the pentagon back on 9/11, its prolly just me seeing that every picture or video about that incident show no plane wreck? oh yeah and the first and only ever half broken black box ever recovered... tsss. The voice part was useless but the rest was ok but were not releasing any more infos. Go check flight 77's passenger list and tell you think its normal that a 239 passenger plane was filled to 23% capacity, with 46 out of 64 passengers were military people and they couldnt stop 4-5 high jackers armed with box cutters.
Is it a fact that when USA went into Iraq the 2nd time, on the basis of Saddam having WMDs in mass quantities, they found nothing of the sort but still continued the war even to this day, that was 12 years ago.
thats only 2 facts, out of many incidents, to support my fucked up view. I took those "facts" off the internet, where more than 1 web site report those "distorted truth", web sites like the Washington post, Cnn and others, all spewing garbage right?
Ill say this too, youre right, im no serious researcher. I dont go out in the field and ask real people real questions but I seriously doubt youre one of those either, so that dont impress me much.
May the Bruins never win the cup again
Is it a fact too that no plane crashed into the pentagon back on 9/11, its prolly just me seeing that every picture or video about that incident show no plane wreck? oh yeah and the first and only ever half broken black box ever recovered... tsss. The voice part was useless but the rest was ok but were not releasing any more infos. Go check flight 77's passenger list and tell you think its normal that a 239 passenger plane was filled to 23% capacity, with 46 out of 64 passengers were military people and they couldnt stop 4-5 high jackers armed with box cutters.
Is it a fact that when USA went into Iraq the 2nd time, on the basis of Saddam having WMDs in mass quantities, they found nothing of the sort but still continued the war even to this day, that was 12 years ago.
thats only 2 facts, out of many incidents, to support my fucked up view. I took those "facts" off the internet, where more than 1 web site report those "distorted truth", web sites like the Washington post, Cnn and others, all spewing garbage right?
Ill say this too, youre right, im no serious researcher. I dont go out in the field and ask real people real questions but I seriously doubt youre one of those either, so that dont impress me much.
May the Bruins never win the cup again
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