I listened to the radio broadcast. This ruling only applies to Ontario. The lawyer interviewed expects it will go the Canadian Supreme Court on appeal.
Breaking news: Court tosses prostitution laws' provisions
- Thread starter joeblow
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I listened to the radio broadcast. This ruling only applies to Ontario. The lawyer interviewed expects it will go the Canadian Supreme Court on appeal.
K
Kansas Frank
I hope more brave attorneys will take up the cause, especially as the case goes up the appeals process, on a pro bono basis.
Now, if only the losy US economy would improve, Yankees like me can visit Montreal more often.
All SC could go Full Service... Wow ! Can't wait
Do not rejoice too quickly...
An appeal will be filed:
french:
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualite...s-sur-la-prostitution-ottawa-ira-en-appel.php
english:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/09/29/mcguinty-prostitution.html
(note that the Ontario Liberal Government supports the appeal and keeping everything as it is).
This is far from settled...
This is the most interesting quote I've found so far. In the small town of Dierdorf, Germany, there was an empty warehouse, vacated by the closing of a plant a number of years earlier. The female mayor of the city approached the FKK club, World, asking them to come to her town to turn the empty warehouse into an FKK. The club Finca now operates there. While the girls working there come mostly from Eastern Europe, all of the other jobs (cooking, cleaning, administration) go to locals.Globe and Mail said:
I can easily see similar clubs opening in the countryside around Montreal, welcomed by the locals for the jobs they provide.
Fulll text of the ruling, Ontario Superior Court of Justice:
http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2010/2010onsc4264/2010onsc4264.html
In the words of Justice Himel:
"The conclusion I have reached is that three provisions of the Criminal Code that seek to address facets of prostitution (living on the avails of prostitution, keeping a common bawdy-house and communicating in a public place for the purpose of engaging in prostitution) are not in accord with the principles of fundamental justice and must be struck down. These laws, individually and together, force prostitutes to choose between their liberty interest and their right to security of the person as protected under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I have found that these laws infringe the core values protected by section 7 and that this infringement is not saved by section 1 as a reasonable limit demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society."
Bravo to the applicants, TERRI JEAN BEDFORD, AMY LEBOVITCH and VALERIE SCOTT, for their courage and determination!
http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2010/2010onsc4264/2010onsc4264.html
In the words of Justice Himel:
"The conclusion I have reached is that three provisions of the Criminal Code that seek to address facets of prostitution (living on the avails of prostitution, keeping a common bawdy-house and communicating in a public place for the purpose of engaging in prostitution) are not in accord with the principles of fundamental justice and must be struck down. These laws, individually and together, force prostitutes to choose between their liberty interest and their right to security of the person as protected under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I have found that these laws infringe the core values protected by section 7 and that this infringement is not saved by section 1 as a reasonable limit demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society."
Bravo to the applicants, TERRI JEAN BEDFORD, AMY LEBOVITCH and VALERIE SCOTT, for their courage and determination!
Best for who? The women who are being arrested and give criminal records? Why do you think these women decided to challenge these laws?
You think the Gov't will nationalize and run brothels? NO WAY! Too contriversial! No Politician would go for that! There will still be strip clubs and rub&tugs! They will just be full service without the fear of a raid. As for taxes, what all cash-service-oriented-business do you know of that declares every cent collected? GET REAL!
Ronnie,
Retired Naughtylady
This is all fun and speculations...in a distant (years)future.The law and the charter are federal ,the judgment is at a lower provincial level and "on hold"(stayed for 30 days) so not even yet considered "valid".The defendants will appeal,that can take years as everyone know, and even if the appeal confirm that judgment there could be another appeal to the Supreme Court(like the Tremblay case in Montreal).We are looking at 10 years may be...
For the sake of argument,it is very probable that eventually the governement takes control of the sex trade like they took control of alcool,gambling,marijuana,...this is just another vice,remember the bootleggers,the "barbottes" etc
As far as taxes are concerned they are already on it with the restaurants and soon other businesses...as it is planned and widely known...
The prostitutes or sex workers are already supposed to file and pay taxes(remember this is not an illegal trade) and a lot of sex businesses already collect and pay taxes and file reports...
As stated by naughty lots of cash businesses evade the revenu department but that is what they are working on as of now.Making it legit and licensed will only help them...
For the sake of argument,it is very probable that eventually the governement takes control of the sex trade like they took control of alcool,gambling,marijuana,...this is just another vice,remember the bootleggers,the "barbottes" etc
As far as taxes are concerned they are already on it with the restaurants and soon other businesses...as it is planned and widely known...
The prostitutes or sex workers are already supposed to file and pay taxes(remember this is not an illegal trade) and a lot of sex businesses already collect and pay taxes and file reports...
As stated by naughty lots of cash businesses evade the revenu department but that is what they are working on as of now.Making it legit and licensed will only help them...
If incalls are made legal, the SP would have the right to ply her trade anywhere she chooses to. The siesta motels would do a booming business by renting rooms to SPs.
I doubt that local governments will be interested in regulating the Sex trade other than zoning. Communities with lots of children do not want it near them. Why do you think the legal "ranches" of Nevada, the only place where the trade is legal, are in the dessert in low population Counties of Nevada. The saying "Not in my back yard" will apply. But to license the sex workers, which I believe the city of Windsor does, would take a lot of resources. From reading the current laws of prostitution in Canada, the government does not want it in public, nor the average citizen wants it in public.
Zoning is the perfect solution, I think. If someone does not abide by zoning laws, they would have no excuse when the government shuts them down for zoning violations.
Good link, Roger. It is indeed an interesting and well writen article.
I'll quote a few more excerpts, and encourage everyone to read it:
"This is one of these cases where hypocrisy may be better than reform in dealing with public policy and social change. Because prostitution itself is legal, the Criminal Code regulates it through various prohibitions -- no public soliciting, no managing, no habitual locale, no recruitment, no minors. Observe the rules and it's full steam ahead. Offend the least sensible rules -- living off the avails -- while running an otherwise admirable operation, and the police will generally let you be.
The alternatives are either messy amendments to the Criminal Code that require MPs to vote for a liberalized sex trade, or appeals to the courts under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, claiming affronts to freedom of expression or such. The first is unrealistic, and the second is improbable, so official tolerance is the best option, with all the risks of arbitrary enforcement of the law that this implies."
Discretion is the soul of justice, and sometimes discretion effectively suspends whole sections of law in the face of changing values. Remember how we refused to execute murderers for years out of sheer abhorrence, despite the existence of the death penalty? Now we would do so out of simple humility, given our demonstrated skill in convicting the wrong people."
Food for thought.
Yes, good article.
There are valid arguments in favor on simply ignoring the law (i.e. tolerance).
More food for though:
As long as the law is on the books, it potentially creates long-term issues. For ex., depending on political winds, lack of enforcement can quickly become strict enforcement (see recent medical marijuana events). It can also lead to regional differences in how citizens' "rights" are treated: it is hard to justify why some Canadians should be treated differently than others. I guess it may be good for tourism, but it does not seem fair. Plus, the same person traveling from one point to another in the country would never know exactly what is permissible or not. Makes everything arbitrary - based on the whims of your local LE. Federal law should apply equally to all Canadians, no?
Finally, as long as a law is on the books, LE *will* try to use it against someone at some time or another, for whatever reason they see fit. Even if the charges are eventually dropped, the lawyer's bill remains. Ouch.
That being said, ignoring the law or tolerance may be the most realistic approach for the foreseeable future.
An interesting documentary on CBCNN titled "A Lady's Guide To Brothels" Two older British Ladies travel the world looking at working conditions with the intention of promoting the decriminalization of prostitution to protect SP's especially street girls. They have a very interesting perspective. Not sure it will ne shown again but perhaps it can be seen online at CBCNN. It is currently being shown at the time of this posting. Definitely worth a look.
If you are interested in the pro/con debate going on in the media, you might want to read this Cyberpresse article by University of Ottawa Dept. of Criminology professor Patrice Corriveau: "Les épouvantails de la décriminalisation de la prostitution." (rough translation: the scare stories about the decriminalization of prostitution).
A concise article that corrects many, if not all, of the misconceptions and outright lies seen or heard recently in reaction to the Court's decision.
You can find the article online (French only):
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/opinions/...e-la-decriminalisation-de-la-prostitution.php
The article is not available in the paper edition. Maybe in tomorrow's edition.
A concise article that corrects many, if not all, of the misconceptions and outright lies seen or heard recently in reaction to the Court's decision.
You can find the article online (French only):
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/opinions/...e-la-decriminalisation-de-la-prostitution.php
The article is not available in the paper edition. Maybe in tomorrow's edition.
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