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EagerBeaver

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naughtylady said:
EB>>> As a lawyer you of all people should know better than to assume that a marriage vows always include monogamy. I know several polyamourous couples who are legally married.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

Ronnie,

Official polygamy is illegal in most jurisdictions so I am not really sure what you are talking about (in Utah it was banned by State Constitution which is the only way Utah could get admitted as a State). If it is legal in Quebec, that is beyond the scope of my knowledge and it would be news to me.

The only way polygamy can be legally practiced in most jurisdictions is by not registering the second marriage. Then that subsequent marriage is not a marriage in the contractual sense, but it COULD be a common law marriage depending on the common law of the jurisdiction and its requirements for same. In any event, you did not read my post very carefully in which I talked only about monogamous relationships, and polygamy is by definition not monogamy.
 
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naughtylady

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EB>>> I talked about polyamoury, not polygamy. Polyamory is multiple loves NOT marriages. You are confusing polyamoury, with polygamy and polyandry (which are indeed illegal). What I am talking about are married couples who live a polyamourous lifestyle.

You said that marriage is by definition monogamous, I disagree. The general public assumes that. However if a married couple agrees to an hosest sexually open relationship then it is not cheating.

To give an example: I know this family in Ontario. He lives with his legal wife, the mother of his son, and her girlfriend. They have been together for several years. Nobody is cheating on anybody since there are no secrets kept. He has legal obligations to two of the women since he is married to one and has a child with another. The boy always has a caregiver who he knows and loves him. He is a happy, intelligent little boy, who knows about as much about his parents sex life as any other child--next to nothing.

Ronnie,
Naughtyaldy
 

Gambling Fool

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Now we are close

Hey HonestAbe,

I'll start by saying we're all guilty of something !!!

When I was replying to your last statement, the analogy you mention is exactly what came to mind.

About "having" to admit something, that was incomplete on my part, I ment if your SO believes something is going on, you should either admit it or stop the relationship. Because something like that on the mind can only lead to bad feelings and a worse relationship. And I agree with you about the overwhelming majority of couples will separate after this revelation. When you reach this point, I don't think it's a question about scoring points. I also agree with you about the guilt ridden person should go ahead and say it.

For the cost of the break-up. Well ... yes their is a major cost, lots of $$$. But you know that going in, so unless you agree beforehand on an "open" relationship, you will have to pay the piper.

For the rest, I guess I'm just a hopeless romantic. To me a relationship is based on fidelity, trust and communication. I would want my partner to tell me that they feel like seeing someone else. That leads to communicating about the bond we have. At that point, it is make or break. I find it much worse to find out about infedelity after the fact (and I have). And, personnally, this is a point of no return for me. So I can't say that ignorance is bliss if your SO doesn't know about it, it's too important to me so I wouldn't do it to somebody else.

I can accept that we are not made to be partners in love, it's tough to find the right person. But do not waste my time, as that is very precious to me.

BTW thanks for the civil and open discussion about this topic. Sometimes this board goes off the wagon and loses it. It's nice to see point and counterpoint.

Gambling Fool
 

HonestAbe

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Good Talk!

Hi Gfool,

Thank you as well for the excellent discussion and civility. I agree, too many posters take things personally and react angrily. A good honest discussion is quite stimulating for the mind!

I agree wholeheartedly with your "romantic sentiment" when it comes to how you treat your S.O. I too wish for an honest person who will not lie to me in any relationship. I once told a girl in college who I cared for very much that I wanted to have sex with several (specific) other girls, I asked if she would consider a menage a trois(hope I spelled that right) so it wouldn't be cheating. She said absolutely not, even though those girls had good looking boyfriends whom she could have enjoyed.

We were 21 and 19 respectively and I had hoped she would have been into some innocent "experimentation." But she wasn't so I broke up with her because I knew I wouldn't be able to overcome the urges I felt at that time in my life. She resented me for quite some time. I thought I did right by her but I guess your damned if you do and damned if you don't. After many years had passed I recently saw an old friend of hers and talked with him about her.

Amazingly, he said she still held a grudge against me over how much I hurt her. I told him that I had loved her very much, too much to cheat on her and put myself in the position of having to lie to her and sneak around behind her back while making her look like a fool in front of the world. I told him to tell her that I was very sad about losing her for several years afterward and if we had met in a different stage of our lives I undoubtedly would have asked her to marry me.

He must have told her because she came to see me at work the next week and we caught up on old times. We showed each other pictures of our children and parted with a big hug, she even grabbed my butt! I blushed and she gave me a wink as she walked out the door. I felt very relieved afterwards, like I had received forgiveness from a jilted lover. I must have given her back her "ego" in some way by telling her the truth about how I felt back then, how I realized what I had let go, and that ultimately it hurt me too. I was glad I didn't cheat on her.

I feel like most people can't handle open minded sexuality because of the posession issues they have with their S.O.'s. Monogamy is something we have forced down our throats from the time we are kids, as is guilt, over any kind of desire that would lead you from the conformist path. We are told to forgo sexual desires and thus a sexually fulfilling life style makes a pariah out of those who seek to explore their sexuality. Does "She's a slut" or "he's a dog", sound familiar? Whats wrong with liking sex with different partners? We love pornstars, but the girl down the street is to be disrespected because she likes to cum with more than one guy? Maybe thats because the people who are saying those things are jealous that their own sex-lives are pathetic and unfulfilling.


Open minded sexuality is not for everyone, mainly because of the reasons listed above. But I also respect two peoples right to be totally monogamous with each other if that is what they feel is right for them. As you put it, it is very hard finding the right person for you. If you think you have found that person and end up in a loving monogamous relationship only to find later that you are unfulfilled sexually, what are you to do?

You could tell the truth and give up sex for the rest of your life or get a divorce, hopefully no kids are involved. You could start sleeping with other people in the neighborhood who, like you, are unfilfilled sexually. Or you could pull a Marty Brodeur and sleep with an In-law. You could engage in all kinds of high-risk activities that would hurt your S.O. tremendously not to mention get you divorced and poor in no time, or you could hobby in a faraway place under the guise of a business trip. If I could choose my own poison I would choose the one that inflicts the least amount of pain on me or any one else. If someone is going to lie to me all I ask is that they make them sweet lies so the poison doesn't offend my palate. Nature always seems to have trees falling in the woods, I hope I'm not there to hear it when it does.
 

Magda

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HonestAbe, what a wonderful story about your ex-girlfriend. It made me feel good. I also agree with you, that if you really feel the impulse toward infidelity, that doing it with as much kindness as possible, ie:not screwing her best friend, sisters, colleagues, etc...is the least one should do. It is one thing to cheat, and quite another to make a fool of someone whom you say you love on top of that.
 

Gambling Fool

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It's official

Hey HonestAbe,

It is now official, we agree !!! BTW I also enjoyed your post and the story about your ex. I also believe that society still has a way to go in the sexual revolution. The guys are supposed to screw as much as they can but the girls are supposed to remain virginal. I used to work in a bank and one time I had people from work over for supper (all the younger people). After supper, and a few drinks, we started talking about sex. It was the best discussion I've ever had. We could all ask exactly what we wanted without any regrets or judments by others. It was awesome. And I found out that these women we f?%$ing horny and enjoyed sex alot. Which is fine.

So people of the world, talk to each other, say what you want, and enjoy the shit out of each other.

Gambling Fool
 

Juliana

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Dear Gambling fool

Gambling Fool, congratulations on your quote.

I just want to say that i absolutely adore the quote on your posts. It is so true.
The people who i admire the most are those who are brave enough to be real from the within. When people tell the true and are thenselves, how can we denied the liberation they inspire us with.

I shall read it over and over just to remaind myself how be happier the most.

Thank you!!
 
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HonestAbe

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I know, I know

Board Stiff,

What can I say? I was at work. Plus I didn't expect it so all I could muster was a flushed face. She is still a hot number too...damn, I just wasn't prepared for that! It would have been very weird since I have never had "Good to see you again sex" with an old flame. Especially since it was well over ten years since I had seen her!

I will now sulk in my shame over missing out on a "Freebie." Have to admit when I saw your handle I thought oh,oh...he's gonna get on me for posting a tearjerker about my ex and make some comment about setting my future posts to sad background music. "Abe posted? Quick, break out the violin!" LOL.
 

Board Stiff

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HonestAbe said:
Board Stiff,
I have never had "Good to see you again sex" with an old flame. Especially since it was well over ten years since I had seen her!
I will now sulk in my shame over missing out on a "Freebie." Have to admit when I saw your handle I thought oh,oh...he's gonna get on me for posting a tearjerker about my ex and make some comment about setting my future posts to sad background music. "Abe posted? Quick, break out the violin!" LOL.

Abe,
Don't worry, I am only here to keep Jules in check...actually, I enjoyed your post quite a lot. I would have probably done the same as you, but i would have kicked myself in the butt. I do like the sad background music idea though, i don't if there is enough server space.
 
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Gambling Fool

Knowledge is power
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Thanks

Thanks Juliana.

I must admit that the quote comes from the movie "Coach Carter". It really hit home. I'm going through some stuff at work and the quote really made me think. I went on the internet and found it.

BTW it's a good movie and a true story.

Gambling Fool
 

HockeyFan4MSOG

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Wow nice debatical here.

I agree with EB on this and Gambling Fool.

The world is not black and white. Right and wrong, life is hard sometimes couples can't be physical anymore and some are actually swing and bring in others into the physical relationship.

Some partners when hit with sexual dysfunction or disability encourage their partner to fullfill their needs with SP or Toy ... www.realdoll.com

Alas, I was like EB and when my wife died of cancer I was faithful for several years after her passing.

Now why would someone pay for sex? Well one its legal in Canada and some places in Nevada in the US. (Europe and the rest varies?). Some people know they are not ready for an emotional relations. Some want to have fun but no one to have it with. (instant gratification). Some rather pay someone then outright use someone for mindless sex because their moral fiber says its less painful to the other person and less painful to them (guilt). The marketing ads sure look good!

Alas, because the person wants to! :p

Thesis over.
 

naughtylady

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Why would someone pay for sex?

You for got one of the reasons I hear most frequently: They have a career in which they travel alot (or work too many hours) and are not at home often enough to make a relationship work.

Also single and lonely: usually calls for last minute date.

and to explore parts of their sexuality that they don't have anyone else to explore with.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady
 

Uncle Kracker

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naughtylady said:
You for got one of the reasons I hear most frequently: They have a career in which they travel alot (or work too many hours) and are not at home often enough to make a relationship work.

Also single and lonely: usually calls for last minute date.

and to explore parts of their sexuality that they don't have anyone else to explore with.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

Yup, can't explain it any better then that...
 

HockeyFan4MSOG

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naughtylady said:
You for got one of the reasons I hear most frequently: They have a career in which they travel alot (or work too many hours) and are not at home often enough to make a relationship work.

Also single and lonely: usually calls for last minute date.

and to explore parts of their sexuality that they don't have anyone else to explore with.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady


Nah I put that in the wants to department ;)
 
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