College football fans?
- Thread starter sybaritic
- Start date
Don't look now but I called this one way back on December 5.
(I also had Georgia over W.Virginia and Notre Dame over Ohio State )What a game! Mr. Vince Young gave us the single greatest performance by Quarterback in a NCAA Championship Game EVER!
GO 'Horns!
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Penn State vs Seminoles
Also this game was really good, Joe Paterno still have it , maybe his last year but it was a good game too .
I still thinking that the horns or USC can defeat some NFL teams
Also this game was really good, Joe Paterno still have it , maybe his last year but it was a good game too .
I still thinking that the horns or USC can defeat some NFL teams
Vince Young
It was a great game. Vince Young pretty much singlehandedly won the game. USC appeared to have a lot of trouble tackling him and could not make any defensive stops the last 6 minutes of the game. I thought USC's defense was a weakness all year as evidenced by the Notre Dame game which USC was fortunate to win. Texas won the game the hard way with big plays under tremendous pressure and coming from 12 points behind.
Congratulations Longhorns!
I heard that Young is coming back to Texas next year due to none of the teams with high NFL draft picks having a need at QB except New Orleans. For financial reasons it is best for Young to play another year at Texas. He will be the clear Heisman favorite next year. I agree with Spin that this was the single greatest performance by a QB in a big college game that I have ever seen.
It was a great game. Vince Young pretty much singlehandedly won the game. USC appeared to have a lot of trouble tackling him and could not make any defensive stops the last 6 minutes of the game. I thought USC's defense was a weakness all year as evidenced by the Notre Dame game which USC was fortunate to win. Texas won the game the hard way with big plays under tremendous pressure and coming from 12 points behind.
Congratulations Longhorns!
I heard that Young is coming back to Texas next year due to none of the teams with high NFL draft picks having a need at QB except New Orleans. For financial reasons it is best for Young to play another year at Texas. He will be the clear Heisman favorite next year. I agree with Spin that this was the single greatest performance by a QB in a big college game that I have ever seen.
"For financial reasons it is best for Young to play another year at Texas. He will be the clear Heisman favorite next year."
EB- I dont know about that, he will probably be the second pick this year and the number 1 pick next year, does he sacrafice a year's salary just to stay in school and be the number 1 pick next year ?, either way he will be making a gazillion dollars and he will be set for life, if it was up to me i would turn pro, on a side note i get a kick out of these spoiled athelete's who make millions of dollars and then when they sign a new contract they say that they are relieved because the new contract guarantee's their family security, making it sound like they were struggling trying to make ends meet with the millions that they were making before.
EB- I dont know about that, he will probably be the second pick this year and the number 1 pick next year, does he sacrafice a year's salary just to stay in school and be the number 1 pick next year ?, either way he will be making a gazillion dollars and he will be set for life, if it was up to me i would turn pro, on a side note i get a kick out of these spoiled athelete's who make millions of dollars and then when they sign a new contract they say that they are relieved because the new contract guarantee's their family security, making it sound like they were struggling trying to make ends meet with the millions that they were making before.
joe t,
He is being advised by people who know more than you or I to stay in school for financial reasons. Leinhart is going to be the #1 picked QB, to New Orleans in all likelihood. Young has been told he has a better chance of being a higher pick with more money next year. It just so happens that the high picking teams DO NOT NEED QUARTERBACKS except NO, which will likely pick Leinhart. That means Young has no guarantee of being picked in the top 5. Teams draft based on need. Why waste a high pick on Young when the other teams with high picks do not need QBs?
This is what the scouts are saying. Personally, I believe Young will be better in the pros then Leinhart. But I am not being paid the money to scout these guys.
He is being advised by people who know more than you or I to stay in school for financial reasons. Leinhart is going to be the #1 picked QB, to New Orleans in all likelihood. Young has been told he has a better chance of being a higher pick with more money next year. It just so happens that the high picking teams DO NOT NEED QUARTERBACKS except NO, which will likely pick Leinhart. That means Young has no guarantee of being picked in the top 5. Teams draft based on need. Why waste a high pick on Young when the other teams with high picks do not need QBs?
This is what the scouts are saying. Personally, I believe Young will be better in the pros then Leinhart. But I am not being paid the money to scout these guys.
Time will tell.
I don't know if Young will stay or come out. My GUESS, is he will come out. No other quarterback has ever put on that kind of dominating performance both throwing AND rushing. I think Vince was quite motivated last night because of the landslide Heisman voting which seemed to outright disrespect his accomplishments this year. Especially after he was already a fabulous player last year and had a nearly identical performance against Michigan. I still think Reggie Bush will be the number one pick but I can't imagine any other lottery team taking anyone other than Young at number 2, and that includes Leinart.
You simply don't pass up on a player of his caliber whether you have a starting QB or not. David Carr is by no means unexpendable if the Texans can get someone else to trade for him. There is already talk of some teams who had lottery pick QB's in the past two years taking Young and shopping the other guys out. Besides Bush, Young is the most dynamic player in college today and ranks among the best of all time as far as college ball goes. His numbers and his record at Texas are indisputable evidence of this, example, he just became the FIRST player EVER to rush for 1,000 yards and throw for 2,500 in a SINGLE SEASON! If you watched the game last night your eyes did not deceive you, he is THAT good.
Don't forget all the teams which aren't in the lottery who may covet him and be willing to make a big trade to acquire him from a lottery team. This could mean multiple picks and/or big names being exchanged. However much money Youngs family may have, assuming best case scenario that they are wealthy southern black folks (not a common demographic per capita), they have no where near the amount of money Young will get as a top 2 pick.
IF he comes back to Texas for one more year he risks a career ending injury and no big payday, ZERO dollars. I personally think it would be foolish for anyone to do this and the overwhelming majority of players as talented as he is have shown consistently that they feel exactly the same way. Then again there is always the odd duck who goes against the grain. We'll have to wait and see. I think after the NFL combine Young will be firmly considered to be the number 2 pick in the draft unless he pulls up lame.
As for the title game, WOW! A great game to say the least. Could have gone either way. Leinart seemed a little less than gracious in his post game remarks. No doubt losing is a foreign feeling to him, but I hope it isn't an indication of immaturity on his part. I have to say Texas got a couple of gifts in the form of the Touchdown Young pitched out to his RB when his knee was obviously down and the replay officials didn't even think to review it. Then the bonehead play of the game with Reggie Bush lateralling to a teammate at the end of a fabulous gallop which turned into only his second fumble of the year and prevented at the very least a field goal. These two plays would have made a huge difference in the game. Also controversial was Pete Carolls; decision to go for a fourth and short before Texas game winning final posession while close to mid field. The Trojans failure to come up with the conversion gave Excellent field posession to the Horns' and may have cost them the game.
Take nothing away from anyone in this game though. Both teams played extremely well and one had to lose. Looking at the other BCS games I thought Penn State and Ohio State showed just how good they both are and that the Big Ten is all around the best conference. Joe Pa is a coaching genius as evidenced by his use of timeouts at the end of the first half of the Orange Bowl which resulted in a go ahead touchdown with seconds left when most coaches would have ran to the locker room. Winning that game without their starting RB Tony Hunt and then losing Pozlusny late in the game when defensive stands were crucial were tremendous handicaps which Joe Pa didn't even flinch at. Joe Pa is one of the classiest figures in sports of all time. Bobby Bowden had his young FSU squad playing excellent D and they will undoubtedly be a force to reckon with for the next 3 years seeing as FSU started no less than 26 freshman during the year. They will be nothing but better.
I wouldn't be one bit surprised if Notre Dame is ranked number one next year due to the favorable(unreasonable/crazed) bias which permeates the football world towards them. They will be good I'm sure but I didn't see a team this year that impressed me so much to say they will compete for a title next year. I didn't even think they played very well against Ohio State. 3 losses makes me wonder if they belonged in a BCS game at all. But the Notre Dame name is all about money so I'm not surprised. It will depend on what they can add for talent in the off season as to where they are ranked to start next season.
USC will plummet in the ratings without Leinart, Bush, and White. Texas will lose several defensive starters and most likely Vince Young as well so they will drop quite a bit. Penn State loses starting QB Michael Robinson and word on Paul Posluznys' MRI will play a big part in whether or not he returns as a Butkus award winner.
I don't know if Young will stay or come out. My GUESS, is he will come out. No other quarterback has ever put on that kind of dominating performance both throwing AND rushing. I think Vince was quite motivated last night because of the landslide Heisman voting which seemed to outright disrespect his accomplishments this year. Especially after he was already a fabulous player last year and had a nearly identical performance against Michigan. I still think Reggie Bush will be the number one pick but I can't imagine any other lottery team taking anyone other than Young at number 2, and that includes Leinart.
You simply don't pass up on a player of his caliber whether you have a starting QB or not. David Carr is by no means unexpendable if the Texans can get someone else to trade for him. There is already talk of some teams who had lottery pick QB's in the past two years taking Young and shopping the other guys out. Besides Bush, Young is the most dynamic player in college today and ranks among the best of all time as far as college ball goes. His numbers and his record at Texas are indisputable evidence of this, example, he just became the FIRST player EVER to rush for 1,000 yards and throw for 2,500 in a SINGLE SEASON! If you watched the game last night your eyes did not deceive you, he is THAT good.
Don't forget all the teams which aren't in the lottery who may covet him and be willing to make a big trade to acquire him from a lottery team. This could mean multiple picks and/or big names being exchanged. However much money Youngs family may have, assuming best case scenario that they are wealthy southern black folks (not a common demographic per capita), they have no where near the amount of money Young will get as a top 2 pick.
IF he comes back to Texas for one more year he risks a career ending injury and no big payday, ZERO dollars. I personally think it would be foolish for anyone to do this and the overwhelming majority of players as talented as he is have shown consistently that they feel exactly the same way. Then again there is always the odd duck who goes against the grain. We'll have to wait and see. I think after the NFL combine Young will be firmly considered to be the number 2 pick in the draft unless he pulls up lame.
As for the title game, WOW! A great game to say the least. Could have gone either way. Leinart seemed a little less than gracious in his post game remarks. No doubt losing is a foreign feeling to him, but I hope it isn't an indication of immaturity on his part. I have to say Texas got a couple of gifts in the form of the Touchdown Young pitched out to his RB when his knee was obviously down and the replay officials didn't even think to review it. Then the bonehead play of the game with Reggie Bush lateralling to a teammate at the end of a fabulous gallop which turned into only his second fumble of the year and prevented at the very least a field goal. These two plays would have made a huge difference in the game. Also controversial was Pete Carolls; decision to go for a fourth and short before Texas game winning final posession while close to mid field. The Trojans failure to come up with the conversion gave Excellent field posession to the Horns' and may have cost them the game.
Take nothing away from anyone in this game though. Both teams played extremely well and one had to lose. Looking at the other BCS games I thought Penn State and Ohio State showed just how good they both are and that the Big Ten is all around the best conference. Joe Pa is a coaching genius as evidenced by his use of timeouts at the end of the first half of the Orange Bowl which resulted in a go ahead touchdown with seconds left when most coaches would have ran to the locker room. Winning that game without their starting RB Tony Hunt and then losing Pozlusny late in the game when defensive stands were crucial were tremendous handicaps which Joe Pa didn't even flinch at. Joe Pa is one of the classiest figures in sports of all time. Bobby Bowden had his young FSU squad playing excellent D and they will undoubtedly be a force to reckon with for the next 3 years seeing as FSU started no less than 26 freshman during the year. They will be nothing but better.
I wouldn't be one bit surprised if Notre Dame is ranked number one next year due to the favorable(unreasonable/crazed) bias which permeates the football world towards them. They will be good I'm sure but I didn't see a team this year that impressed me so much to say they will compete for a title next year. I didn't even think they played very well against Ohio State. 3 losses makes me wonder if they belonged in a BCS game at all. But the Notre Dame name is all about money so I'm not surprised. It will depend on what they can add for talent in the off season as to where they are ranked to start next season.
USC will plummet in the ratings without Leinart, Bush, and White. Texas will lose several defensive starters and most likely Vince Young as well so they will drop quite a bit. Penn State loses starting QB Michael Robinson and word on Paul Posluznys' MRI will play a big part in whether or not he returns as a Butkus award winner.
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HonestAbe said:
Not correct. If he came back to Texas he would get an insurance policy to cover the possibility of injury, probably through Lloyd's of London. Many college athletes with pro potential have been insured under their policies.
Young is said to be leaning towards going back. Need I remind you that if he comes back and wins the Heisman Trophy that will also mean more endorsement dollars and revenue potential. His agents are not stupid and they know all of the above.
If he stays in school he will make more money if he wins the Heisman and is #1 pick in the 2007 draft, and that is exactly what he is being told. His agent is probably working on a % basis so if Young gets more money he gets more money. This is how things work in reality fellas. No question Young will get a lot of money no matter what he does, but he will be worth more if he stays in school based on the needs of the high picking teams in the 2006 draft.
I should also note that while I agree that Young is a great player and his game last night was an unprecedented big time performance, the scouts have MAJOR ISSUES with his throwing mechanics which need to be further refined and developed. I have heard from Texas's own coaches that Young was apparently not well coached in QB fundamentals in high school and youth football. Again, these scouts are paid the big money to assess, not the knee jerk armchair QBs in this thread. So I will go with what they say.
I'd take Leinart over Young in the draft too, but I personally prefer the style of Leinart (more gun less run).
I would even take Leinart over Bush - I think Leinart could be that solid, talented guy who quietly just wins (Aikmen, Brady) it seems those guys don't come around as often as great RB's do.
I also like NCAA better so I hope he stays at Texas. If he stays in, barring injury, he goes #1 overall next year (this year maybe 1/2/3 ???) and that's money. I don't know what I would do, but I'd love to have that decision to make.
I would even take Leinart over Bush - I think Leinart could be that solid, talented guy who quietly just wins (Aikmen, Brady) it seems those guys don't come around as often as great RB's do.
I also like NCAA better so I hope he stays at Texas. If he stays in, barring injury, he goes #1 overall next year (this year maybe 1/2/3 ???) and that's money. I don't know what I would do, but I'd love to have that decision to make.
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Cash Problem?
Those insurance policies cost a lot of money EB. Where do you suppose he would get it from? His "agent?" As a college athlete he isn't allowed to have an agent, if he gets one he loses his college eligibility, so if he follows your advice and breaks NCAA rules, he is definitely going to the NFL this year. Even if he was able to come up with the premium for that insurance policy it won't pay out nearly as much as a multi-year contract as a top two pick in the draft, which he would undoubtedly be this year. If he waits a year he is assured of nothing. He could have a terrible year marred by nagging injuries or more serious ones as has already been discussed. Best case scenario if he waits is he is the number 1 pick next year rather than number 2 and some sports writers point out that he may not even be the number 1 QB taken in the '07 draft with Notre Dames Brady Quinn coming out. You know how everyone orgasms over the idea an Irish QB from Notre Dame and the tendency amongst many idiots to bring up the "black quarterback debate."
Currently the local DA is talking with Young and his family about how they can converse with "agents" without violating NCAA rules. Then he was on Leno the other night and was quoted as saying he has NOT made up his mind yet and he wants to see what the NFL thinks about him. This is a clear indication that if he thinks he can get a big payday he is as good as gone. ESPN's Mel Kiper points out that all the momentum is in Youngs favor at this point as far as the draft goes and other ESPN articles show that almost all criticisms of Young and predictions as to the draft were made BEFORE the Championship game was played and that the current buzz amongst NFL personnel is that of elation as to Young.
Endorsements won't come automatically, he'll have to win the Heisman and another National Championship to generate anywhere near the endorsements Eli Manning enjoyed because of his family name. He would also have to play in a big market like NY to make a serious amount of endorsement money as a rookie QB. Seeing as Eli already occupies one of those spots only the Jets are left and surprise, surprise, Chad Penningtons' future is in doubt right now because of his recurring shoulder injury. Perhaps the Jets who are a lottery team this year would try to trade up to take Young? It won't necessarily happen but it goes to illustrate the point that Young will be taken top two this year because he is worth so much to so many different teams. Most likely scenario would be for New Orleans to take Young 2nd overall since they need a QB desperately and while were leveling criticisms at Young for his throwing style lets not forget the oft repeated questions amongst NFL scouts about Leinarts arm strength. Couple that with Leinarts lack of mobility compared to Young and put them in the NFL on teams with average at best offensive lines and Young becomes the clear choice since Leinart will end up on the seat of his pants for much of the season and be a prime candidate for injuries due to his getting hit all the time.
The only thing which could lower Youngs' stock right now would be not having a good combine workout. As far as his throwing motion if you listened to the analysts before and after the championship game you would have heard repeatedly that Youngs throwing motion, while awkward, does not appear to be in any way a detriment to his value since he has such incredible throwing accuracy in addition to arm strength. This is a BIG (6'5" 240lb) QB who runs like a gazelle and can heave the ball a mile or thread a needle with it. There hasn't been another like him in the NFL. Randall Cunningham arguably the closest comparison was no where near as rugged as Young nor as good a passer. There have been other quarterbacks in the NFL who were succesful throwing sidearm. Even if Young refines his motion a bit he is better off doing it in the NFL where the paychecks are much bigger than in college. The overwhelming majority of athletes of his caliber opt to go to the pros' as soon as they know the big money is there for them. I suspect things won't be too much different for Mr. Young.
Correction as to my earlier post. Young became the first player in NCAA history to rush for over 1,000 yards and pass for 3,000. I previously stated over 2,500 yards passing. I wouldn't want to short change the guy. His passer efficiency rating this year btw was 163.8, good enough for third in the nation.
Those insurance policies cost a lot of money EB. Where do you suppose he would get it from? His "agent?" As a college athlete he isn't allowed to have an agent, if he gets one he loses his college eligibility, so if he follows your advice and breaks NCAA rules, he is definitely going to the NFL this year. Even if he was able to come up with the premium for that insurance policy it won't pay out nearly as much as a multi-year contract as a top two pick in the draft, which he would undoubtedly be this year. If he waits a year he is assured of nothing. He could have a terrible year marred by nagging injuries or more serious ones as has already been discussed. Best case scenario if he waits is he is the number 1 pick next year rather than number 2 and some sports writers point out that he may not even be the number 1 QB taken in the '07 draft with Notre Dames Brady Quinn coming out. You know how everyone orgasms over the idea an Irish QB from Notre Dame and the tendency amongst many idiots to bring up the "black quarterback debate."
Currently the local DA is talking with Young and his family about how they can converse with "agents" without violating NCAA rules. Then he was on Leno the other night and was quoted as saying he has NOT made up his mind yet and he wants to see what the NFL thinks about him. This is a clear indication that if he thinks he can get a big payday he is as good as gone. ESPN's Mel Kiper points out that all the momentum is in Youngs favor at this point as far as the draft goes and other ESPN articles show that almost all criticisms of Young and predictions as to the draft were made BEFORE the Championship game was played and that the current buzz amongst NFL personnel is that of elation as to Young.
Endorsements won't come automatically, he'll have to win the Heisman and another National Championship to generate anywhere near the endorsements Eli Manning enjoyed because of his family name. He would also have to play in a big market like NY to make a serious amount of endorsement money as a rookie QB. Seeing as Eli already occupies one of those spots only the Jets are left and surprise, surprise, Chad Penningtons' future is in doubt right now because of his recurring shoulder injury. Perhaps the Jets who are a lottery team this year would try to trade up to take Young? It won't necessarily happen but it goes to illustrate the point that Young will be taken top two this year because he is worth so much to so many different teams. Most likely scenario would be for New Orleans to take Young 2nd overall since they need a QB desperately and while were leveling criticisms at Young for his throwing style lets not forget the oft repeated questions amongst NFL scouts about Leinarts arm strength. Couple that with Leinarts lack of mobility compared to Young and put them in the NFL on teams with average at best offensive lines and Young becomes the clear choice since Leinart will end up on the seat of his pants for much of the season and be a prime candidate for injuries due to his getting hit all the time.
The only thing which could lower Youngs' stock right now would be not having a good combine workout. As far as his throwing motion if you listened to the analysts before and after the championship game you would have heard repeatedly that Youngs throwing motion, while awkward, does not appear to be in any way a detriment to his value since he has such incredible throwing accuracy in addition to arm strength. This is a BIG (6'5" 240lb) QB who runs like a gazelle and can heave the ball a mile or thread a needle with it. There hasn't been another like him in the NFL. Randall Cunningham arguably the closest comparison was no where near as rugged as Young nor as good a passer. There have been other quarterbacks in the NFL who were succesful throwing sidearm. Even if Young refines his motion a bit he is better off doing it in the NFL where the paychecks are much bigger than in college. The overwhelming majority of athletes of his caliber opt to go to the pros' as soon as they know the big money is there for them. I suspect things won't be too much different for Mr. Young.
Correction as to my earlier post. Young became the first player in NCAA history to rush for over 1,000 yards and pass for 3,000. I previously stated over 2,500 yards passing. I wouldn't want to short change the guy. His passer efficiency rating this year btw was 163.8, good enough for third in the nation.
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HA-
Talking head analysts on ABC who discuss Young's throwing motion are not NFL scouts who are paid to provide an informed analysis. NFL scouts had concerns with Young's throwing MECHANICS before the game and I am suggesting that the euphoria of one game is not likely to change that analysis.
Regarding payment of an insurance policy you are assuming there will be cash payments by an agent, not necessarily so. First of all, it is done all the time. There have been several star college basketball players, notably Richard Hamilton when he was at UConn, who took out such policies. It was done very publicly and the NCAA was aware of it so agents are not paying for it. In some cases, player's parents have taken out mortgage on their homes, the collateral is equity and/or a lien on the signing bonus. I have been told that some insurance companies will also accept as full or partial payment liens against the signing bonus. It's a risk for them to do that, but risk is what the insurance business is all about. So it's not necessarily as financially onerous to get such a policy as one would think.
Career ending injuries for college athletes who eschew the pros and return to college for extra year(s) are actually very rare. The policy will only insure against on field injuries. It will not insure someone ending their career by getting into a motorcycle accident like Jason Williams, the former Duke University basketball star who wrecked his knee in a motorcycle accident after his rookie season with the Chicago Bulls.
Talking head analysts on ABC who discuss Young's throwing motion are not NFL scouts who are paid to provide an informed analysis. NFL scouts had concerns with Young's throwing MECHANICS before the game and I am suggesting that the euphoria of one game is not likely to change that analysis.
Regarding payment of an insurance policy you are assuming there will be cash payments by an agent, not necessarily so. First of all, it is done all the time. There have been several star college basketball players, notably Richard Hamilton when he was at UConn, who took out such policies. It was done very publicly and the NCAA was aware of it so agents are not paying for it. In some cases, player's parents have taken out mortgage on their homes, the collateral is equity and/or a lien on the signing bonus. I have been told that some insurance companies will also accept as full or partial payment liens against the signing bonus. It's a risk for them to do that, but risk is what the insurance business is all about. So it's not necessarily as financially onerous to get such a policy as one would think.
Career ending injuries for college athletes who eschew the pros and return to college for extra year(s) are actually very rare. The policy will only insure against on field injuries. It will not insure someone ending their career by getting into a motorcycle accident like Jason Williams, the former Duke University basketball star who wrecked his knee in a motorcycle accident after his rookie season with the Chicago Bulls.
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Vince Young - 2006 or 2007 NFL Draft
The basic issue overlooked by all posters so far is that the present NFL CBA
expires after the 2006 season and the a new NFL CBA may/should be in place for the 2007 College draft.
If the entry level salaries are capped - see the latest NHL CBA, then Vince Young as the number one pick in 2007 may make alot less than the any of the top 10 picks or lower in 2006.
An interesting roll of the dice.
The basic issue overlooked by all posters so far is that the present NFL CBA
expires after the 2006 season and the a new NFL CBA may/should be in place for the 2007 College draft.
If the entry level salaries are capped - see the latest NHL CBA, then Vince Young as the number one pick in 2007 may make alot less than the any of the top 10 picks or lower in 2006.
An interesting roll of the dice.
eastender said:
Good point EE,
All the more reason to cash in while the bank vault is still open.
EB,
Good point as well about the insurance policies only covering on the field injuries, all the more reason to cash in now, God forbid he gets in a car accident where he is at fault and has no one to sue or falls down a flight of stairs, or gets some crippling disease, etc... But I'm not suggesting that an agent will make payments for him for such a policy. I actually pointed out that he can't have an agent as you suggested he had working for him, as an NCAA athlete, to hire an agent would mean one thing only, he IS entering the draft.
All I'm saying basically is take the money when its on the table, don't wait and possibly lose out. He can always go back to college and finish his degree as most superstar athletes who care about the education in the first place do and any "agent" he talks to will undoubtedly tell him this. Recently such superstars as Shaquille O'neal and Vince Carter were awarded their degrees several years after they left school early. No one thought they were dumb to enter the draft as an underclassman, Vince Young would hardly be the exception to this ideology. The fact that "agents" are trying to talk to him at this point means the feeding frenzy has begun and that doesn't happen unless there is a lot of money to be made.
As far as analysts go, I haven't heard anyone say that Vince Young won't go as a high first round pick at the LEAST. I have heard quite a few, and more and more analysts from a wide variety of sports networks, since he shocked the football world the other night, say that he belongs as a top 2 pick, over Leinart, but a tossup with Bush depending on team need. NFL scouts are focused on the combine right now. Thats where Vince will determine whether he is a top 2 pick or a top 10 pick. Leinart will have to ease some doubts as well. Of course Young only has til January 15th to petition the league for early entry so this debate won't have to go on for too long. We will know within the next 10 days in all likelihood.
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I am not a professional scout, but my feeling is that Young should be picked over Leinart, although I am hearing that scouts think Leinart should be picked first. I see Young as being a tougher player than Leinart, and he also brings to the table the running/scrambling dimension that Leinart does not possess. For some reason Leinart reminds me a lot of former USC Quarterback Todd Marinovich who was a bust of epic proportions in the NFL.
Young does have issues with his mechanics and release, but I feel those can be corrected with proper coaching, either with more time at the college level or in the NFL. The positives that Young does have are natural gifts. He compares very favorably to Daunte Culpepper of the Vikings in my mind. He may be a bit faster than Culpepper. Young's combination of speed and strength and agility at 6'5" is very rare.
It may be wise for Young to go pro this year for some of the reasons mentioned in this thread, but it is a calculated risk no matter what he does. It just so happens that this is a bad year for top rated QBs because of the needs of the teams picking high in the draft. If Leinart is the first QB picked by New Orleans, and the other high drafting teams draft based on need, there is no telling how far Young might fall. There are no certainties. If we all had crystal balls and our conjecture was accurate Young would be hiring us to tell him what he should do. But we don't have crystal balls and Young will not be reading this thread to determine what he should do.
Young does have issues with his mechanics and release, but I feel those can be corrected with proper coaching, either with more time at the college level or in the NFL. The positives that Young does have are natural gifts. He compares very favorably to Daunte Culpepper of the Vikings in my mind. He may be a bit faster than Culpepper. Young's combination of speed and strength and agility at 6'5" is very rare.
It may be wise for Young to go pro this year for some of the reasons mentioned in this thread, but it is a calculated risk no matter what he does. It just so happens that this is a bad year for top rated QBs because of the needs of the teams picking high in the draft. If Leinart is the first QB picked by New Orleans, and the other high drafting teams draft based on need, there is no telling how far Young might fall. There are no certainties. If we all had crystal balls and our conjecture was accurate Young would be hiring us to tell him what he should do. But we don't have crystal balls and Young will not be reading this thread to determine what he should do.
Daringly,
I suspect you are right, and that's why I think Young should stay in school. Personally I like him, but the scouts seem to agree with your analysis. And NFL teams will be listening to the scouts.
I suspect you are right, and that's why I think Young should stay in school. Personally I like him, but the scouts seem to agree with your analysis. And NFL teams will be listening to the scouts.
Daringly- I would not be so sure on that, there are rumours that Leinart does not want to play for NEW Orleans therefore the Saints will pick Young instead who i think is the better qb hands down, but i hope your prediction comes true because i would love nothing more than to see Young fall right into the lap of my Raiders(i have been dreaming and drooling over visions of Young to Moss, they will rule the AFC west for years to come).
Speed Kills
What a combo that would be! What exactly would a defense do to battle that kind of speed? Double Moss and Young torches you, blitz Young and Moss torches you. A real nightmare scenario for defensive coordinators. With Kerry Collins at the tail end of his career and his effectiveness waning the Raiders are yet another team that would absolutely love to have Young. Al Davis is drooling already. Can you say signing bonus$?
I think some of us may be underestimating the importance of the combine when all of these guys will show their athletic skills for all the teams to see. A bad performance at this "testing ground" event can spell a huge drop in the draft order for an otherwise excellent player. Likewise a head turning performance can mean a huge jump and millions of dollars. I like Young to blow the socks off of Leinart in such a contest because his 40 time will make Leinart look like Drew Bledsoe, his agility will make Leinart look like a nosetackle, and Youngs' arm strength will make him look like Hercules compared to Leinart. Leinarts sole advantage over Young may be his ability to make/change calls at the line but that is not an issue at the combine and nothing Young will not learn quickly under good tutelage. Young being markedly stronger, faster, and more agile than Leinart will not go unnoticed. The team which takes Leinart will have to build an outstanding O-line to protect him, a team which takes Young will be built for speed, with lots of rolling out of the pocket and options to maximize his abilities and run defenses ragged. Leinart will play a more "traditional" conservative QB role, hopefully for him he will not play the role of sitting duck.
Joe.t said:visions of Young to Moss, they will rule the AFC west for years to come).
What a combo that would be! What exactly would a defense do to battle that kind of speed? Double Moss and Young torches you, blitz Young and Moss torches you.
A real nightmare scenario for defensive coordinators. With Kerry Collins at the tail end of his career and his effectiveness waning the Raiders are yet another team that would absolutely love to have Young. Al Davis is drooling already. Can you say signing bonus$?I think some of us may be underestimating the importance of the combine when all of these guys will show their athletic skills for all the teams to see. A bad performance at this "testing ground" event can spell a huge drop in the draft order for an otherwise excellent player. Likewise a head turning performance can mean a huge jump and millions of dollars. I like Young to blow the socks off of Leinart in such a contest because his 40 time will make Leinart look like Drew Bledsoe, his agility will make Leinart look like a nosetackle, and Youngs' arm strength will make him look like Hercules compared to Leinart. Leinarts sole advantage over Young may be his ability to make/change calls at the line but that is not an issue at the combine and nothing Young will not learn quickly under good tutelage. Young being markedly stronger, faster, and more agile than Leinart will not go unnoticed. The team which takes Leinart will have to build an outstanding O-line to protect him, a team which takes Young will be built for speed, with lots of rolling out of the pocket and options to maximize his abilities and run defenses ragged. Leinart will play a more "traditional" conservative QB role, hopefully for him he will not play the role of sitting duck.
Daringly,
Very good points. Michael Vick had a terrible year this year and there are now questions about whether he is a starting NFL quarterback. We must also remember the Joey Harrington, Ryan Leaf and David Carr fiascoes. It is very dangerous to pick a quarterback high. NFL teams look at arm strength, quickness of release and ability to pass in the pocket.
I look at Young as being a bigger version of Vick. I thought Vick would be a good passer in the NFL because of his arm strength and ability to throw on the run but that hasn't happened. I like Young a lot, and while I think he should go higher than Leinart I can't sit here and tell all of you that he is a lock for NFL success. So many people said the same about Ryan Leaf, and those people have been laughed out of town.
Very good points. Michael Vick had a terrible year this year and there are now questions about whether he is a starting NFL quarterback. We must also remember the Joey Harrington, Ryan Leaf and David Carr fiascoes. It is very dangerous to pick a quarterback high. NFL teams look at arm strength, quickness of release and ability to pass in the pocket.
I look at Young as being a bigger version of Vick. I thought Vick would be a good passer in the NFL because of his arm strength and ability to throw on the run but that hasn't happened. I like Young a lot, and while I think he should go higher than Leinart I can't sit here and tell all of you that he is a lock for NFL success. So many people said the same about Ryan Leaf, and those people have been laughed out of town.
Daringly said:
I don't agree with that assessment. What do Carr, Harrington and Kyle Boller the QB for the Baltimore Ravens have in common? They were all schooled at the college level by Jeff Tedford, currently the Cal Bears head coach. None of them has done well in the NFL. That's because the Tedford system is unsuitable for the NFL and is only suited for the college level where the game is a lot slower and the QB has more time to make progressive reads while in the pocket. Can't blame it on receivers because Harrington had great receivers to work with. Can't blame it on RB because Boller had Jamal Lewis behind him.
Very true...
Excellent,astute post.
Add Trent Dilfer,Akili Smith and Aaron Rodgers(will see but he dropped sharply in the 2005 draft) and you complete the picture.Progressive reads are easier in the college game because beyond maybe one or two players per defence the QB is playing against players who will never play in the pros let alone the NFL.
picasso said:
Excellent,astute post.
Add Trent Dilfer,Akili Smith and Aaron Rodgers(will see but he dropped sharply in the 2005 draft) and you complete the picture.Progressive reads are easier in the college game because beyond maybe one or two players per defence the QB is playing against players who will never play in the pros let alone the NFL.
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