Cuba in the World Baseball Classic - Let Them Play!

[CryWolf]

Here are some excerpts from SI:

"I can see why Cuba dominated the international competition," Manny Acta, the Dominican Republic manager, said after the Dominicans were bumped off by the Cubans in the semifinals. "Their pitching is legit. They can throw guys out there every single day that can pitch in the big leagues."

"Selig wanted a World Baseball Classic. He got it. He wanted to "grow the game." The WBC, after the final on Monday night, will have drawn nearly 750,000 fans to 39 games from Tokyo to Puerto Rico to San Diego -- an average of more than 18,700. It's created enormous excitement in a lot of countries, many of them fielding the best teams ever assembled."

"A Cuba-Japan final may not be what Selig conjured up in his most private WBC fantasy. But a championship game nearly free of Major League Baseball players, as it turns out, isn't such a bad thing after all."

That says it all!!!

 

[EagerBeaver]

So why does everyone want to get out? Why is the US Coast Guard constantly having to send back Cuban refugee boats? Why has Cuba had numerous defections at sporting events especially international baseball events? Because the country is great?

 

[eastender]

Usual Reasons

So why does everyone want to get out? Why is the US Coast Guard constantly having to send back Cuban refugee boats? Why has Cuba had numerous defections at sporting events especially international baseball events? Because the country is great?

You will never have a country where 100% of the people are happy.Canada was a refuge for many Americans who did not want to fight in Viet Nam.Numerous other examples from other countries may be found.

For an athlete,setting aside the financial disparity,it is a question of proving that you can be the best amongst the best.Example Yao Ming.

In the alternative you can ask if the USA is so great why does it have to illustrate its supposed greatness by imposing various sanctions on the Cuban people?

 

[CryWolf]

Let's make a bet.

How many cubans will defect after the game?

 

[picasso]

Bad chemistry

Sports and politics don't mix. Excellence in the field of play in global tournaments like this WBC or the upcoming World Cup naturally evokes national pride. But national pride still doesn't have anything with one political system being superior to another. The danger and all the close-mindedness that comes with it happens when you try to make the connection between sports achievements and political systems. Can we say 1936 Olympics in Berlin?

 

[Nugie]

Wow. Interesting game.

Small ball - errors = still winning.

 

[HonestAbe]

Good games, ironic tournament.

Congratulations to Japan on a hard fought victory over Cuba.

Most interesting stat of the night as displayed during the game.

Total number of Major league players who participated in the tournament: 170

Total number of major league players in the championship game: 2, Ichiro and 1 other (relatively obscure) Japanese player.

Notable ironies:

MLB sponsors a World Baseball Classic, everyone is in awe of the big names in the lineup for the US (and the Dominican Republic) who are the overwhelming favorites to win because of the huge Major League presence on the roster. Instead they lose to Canada, Mexico, and Korea and don't even make the semi's.

Cuba, a team downplayed somewhat by many so called "experts" gets to the final despite an attempt on behalf of the Bush Administration to ban them from the competition. Scheduling and officiating are both questioned as to favoritism towards the US which is also hosting the tournament. The championship features only one well known major league baseball player. Life is full of Ironies, enjoy them when you can.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Cuba used its two best pitchers in the semifinal game against the Dominican Republic, and apparently there was some drop off after those two, as Japan scored 10 runs.

Congratulations to Japan on a great tournament.

 

[EagerBeaver]

btyger,

I think Matsui did not play for two reason, (1) the Yankees asked him not to, and (2) he had a knee injury which is only now getting better.

BTW I agree with all of your comments as stated above about Cuba. I was going to respond in the same fashion to FML's post. He has obviously never spoken to any of the large number of Cuban Americans in South Florida. If he had he would be deeply ashamed of himself. I hope some Cuban exiles are reading this and will interject at some point in this thread. I happened to have worked for a Cuban American exile some years ago so I have some familiarity with their feelings.

There has been talk of lifting the embargo in the last 10-15 years, but the Cuban American lobby in Florida is all powerful. A lot of the posters here also got very poor grades in history and conveniently forget about some of the events that led to the embargo in the first place. To name only one, Cuba allowed offensive missiles to be placed on their territory pointed at the USA. That was an act of war. It led directly to President Kennedy shutting down travel and all financial and commercial transactions with Cuba, broadening an embargo he had already instituted. Obviously the political climate that led to the embargo has changed since that time, and in recent years the tide has been changing in favor of lifting the embargo.

When Castro dies the situation likely will change with Cuba.

 

[eastender]

Abridged History

btyger,

I think Matsui did not play for two reason, (1) the Yankees asked him not to, and (2) he had a knee injury which is only now getting better.

BTW I agree with all of your comments as stated above about Cuba. I was going to respond in the same fashion to FML's post. He has obviously never spoken to any of the large number of Cuban Americans in South Florida. If he had he would be deeply ashamed of himself. I hope some Cuban exiles are reading this and will interject at some point in this thread. I happened to have worked for a Cuban American exile some years ago so I have some familiarity with their feelings.

There has been talk of lifting the embargo in the last 10-15 years, but the Cuban American lobby in Florida is all powerful. A lot of the posters here also got very poor grades in history and conveniently forget about some of the events that led to the embargo in the first place. To name only one, Cuba allowed offensive missiles to be placed on their territory pointed at the USA. That was an act of war. It led directly to President Kennedy shutting down travel and all financial and commercial transactions with Cuba, broadening an embargo he had already instituted. Obviously the political climate that led to the embargo has changed since that time, and in recent years the tide has been changing in favor of lifting the embargo.

When Castro dies the situation likely will change with Cuba.

When Batista fled Cuba,Jan 1,1959,Fidel Castro took over and tried to establish better relationships - visited the USA and the UN.The USA(Eisenhauer and Kennedy)treated him as they did many other new regimes in Central and South America from the era,who dared challenge their interests(oil and UFC) they tried to overthrow/kill the leader(Bay of Pigs).The missiles were installed after the failed Bay of Pigs invasion or after the USA had effectively committed an act of war,using your terminology.

The USA obtained different results in Chile with Allende.

While the comments of Cuban exiles may be interesting, a balanced debate should include the comments of Cubans still living in Cuba.

Looking back from today's perspective the embargo looks more and more like a hissy fit in retaliation for the Bay of Pigs fiasco.

 

[spin]

I was going to respond in the same fashion to FML's post. He has obviously never spoken to any of the large number of Cuban Americans in South Florida. If he had he would be deeply ashamed of himself.

What type of response do you think you're going to get from an exile?

EagerBeaver I am very surprised at your attitude toward Cuba, why not go to Cuba and ask the Cubans if they are better off in Cuba or would they rather live in the Dominican Republic or Haiti or Mexico - The Cubans look down of these countries as being uneducated and poor!

Why don't you speak to any of the large number of Mexican Americans in California and ask them what they think of Mexico - Maybe an embargo is just what the Mexicans need.

btyger, The US Embargo is a huge factor in Cuba's continued economic problems, imagine the richest country in the world 90 miles away and you can't make 1 cent from tourism or trade. I can only imagine the economic problems Canada would have should the US decide to place an emargo - wouldn't matter who else still did business with us! It would be a nightmare!

How can you possible pass judgement on a country you have never visited?

No one forgot anything about history EagerBeaver, some of us have simply moved on. Cuba did not act alone - those offensive missile's you refer to were not built in Cuba!

Well done Japan! I'm already looking forward to the next WBC.

 

[EagerBeaver]

spin,

Are you kidding me? What kind of response do you think you are going to get from a citizen in a country where people are routinely jailed and tortured for the slightest wisp of criticism of the government? Which is why FML's post is laughable. You really think the Cubans are going to speak their true feelings about their government to a tourist?

I am using the term exile loosely, to define all Cubans who are in this country (the USA) due to having fled the Castro regime. I have worked for one, and I am also currently representing a few as clients. The stories they have told me were upsetting to say the least, as they have been back to the country in recent years and I am much more accepting of what I hear from them than anything I have read in this thread. Suffice it to say the Cuban government is the most paranoid government in the world bar none.

 

[spin]

What kind of response do you think you are going to get from a citizen in a country where people are routinely jailed and tortured for the slightest wisp of criticism of the government?

EagerBeaver,

Are you still refering to Cuba with that statement? As many trading partners of the good old U.S. of A. treat their citizens in the manner described above.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one as we could debate this topic forever with no conclusion.

Many people from many different countries arrive in the U.S.A. with horrific stories of torture and abuse, the US Gov't decided to pick on Cuba.

I have met many Cubans in Montreal and I have been to Cuba many times, not all Cubans want to leave EagerBeaver. As a matter of fact a close friend of mine is in the clothing business and recently had two Cuban gentlemen working in his warehouse (being paid $2.00 more an hour then minimum wage) who after being in Canada for 5 years decided to go back to Cuba, as they felt that the North American lifestyle was just not for them.

Different strokes for different folks my friend, remember no one is defining Cuba as Shangra La BUT I have yet to read one post that justifies the U.S. Embargo.

OK moving on to MLB, I have been smiling ear to ear since I woke up this morning and heard on Sportscenter that Mr. Soriano is still refusing to play the outfield for the HATED, FRANCHISE STEALING WASHINGTON NATIONALS!

Good for you Alfonso! We would have let you play 2nd here in Montreal.

 

[HonestAbe]

HA, Japan has long been full of great ballplayers. Does anyone know why Hideki Matsui didn't play?

Btyger,

None greater than Sadaharu Oh, Japans manager who is revered with near God like status by the Japanese. He formerly played for the Yomiuri Giants, Japans version of the Yankees, and set the record for homeruns which I believe stands to this day.

Problem is, Japanese baseball has always been scoffed at silently by the "experts" and the ignorant alike here in the US because of cultural bias(racism, if you like) against them. Their game was viewed as inferior to our own because they didn't have the big steroid infected guys hitting 500 foot home runs. The Japanese as a people are in general smaller than us, of course part of the reason for that is that their culture doesn't have a problem with obesity. However their lack of size equated to a perceived lack of power to hit the home run ball. Case in point, Sadaharu Oh. His homerun record was always discounted as achieved in the smaller Japanese parks and the rub on him was that he never would have been so great here in the US.

This attitude has changed recently since the likes of Ichiro and Matsui joined the league and proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that they most certainly can play as well or better than anyone we can put on the field. Sadaharu Oh would be relentlessly pursued by every team in the league today but during his time he received about as much attention from MLB as Bronson Arroyo does today. Cultural Bias, or racism, is still alive but more and more enlightened people are popping up every day. My guess is that the world baseball classic has sent shockwaves through those formerly ignorant baseball fans as to just how talented the rest of the world is at playing "our" game. First we learned our lesson in basketball, now baseball... OH MY GOD imagine if the rest of the world starts playing football!!

 

[HonestAbe]

"Oh" is actually a Chinese name. Sadaharu is of Taiwanese descent on his father side. For Japanese to workship such a mixed blood, he must be really something.

Actually he had to earn their love and admiration. Because of his mixed ancestry, his mother was Japanese, and as you have already pointed out his father was Chinese(Taiwan), so he was picked on quite a bit by his pureblood Japanese peers growing up. When he was signed by Yomiuri out of high school and given a record $60,000 bonus there were plenty of critics, all of them were utterly silenced by the end of his career. To criticize him after all he achieved would have made them look quite ridiculous. After checking twice I found that my previous thoughts were correct, his HR record still stands today as the most homeruns hit by ANY professional baseball player including MLB. He won 13 straight HR titles and 3 triple crowns, eat your heart out Babe Ruth.

Of course there is still some animosity between Oriental cultures, particularly between the Koreans and Japan as well as China and Japan. This is due to the horrific atrocities the Japanese committed against those nations before and during WWII. Japan today is no where near as discriminatory towards their neighbors nor do they subscribe to Hirohitos' belief that they were a superior race whose rightful place was ruling the world. Thats the Neo-con stance here in the US nowadays.