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Merlot

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Ok, guys first let me tell you i am perfectly aware of what the Union did before, and during the war. I never said they where angels, but at the same time, no community, aucun peuple, is completely white...(as perfectly good, not talking about race...) They commited atrocity yes, but again every country, every regime did... Me wearing the color of the red army is a tribute to the sacrifice the 25 millions russians and members did. There was no retreat in the red army, and even my ring tone when i receive a text is "No retreat Comrad" . Stalin was far from being perfect, some even said he was nearly bas bad as hitler, im aware of it, but he still lead the Union to victory, and even tough he made the mistake of allowing the Nazis to start the war, he ended up defeating them.

Hello HM,

Obviously no one can impress upon you the magnitude of evil this regime committed. Stalin was a monstrous inhuman animal...Period!!!

He gets credit for rapidly industrializing Russia. But how? Treating millions like slaves wrenching them out of their lives into his projects. When he needed labor he forced deportation or arrested people as he wished. When he needed money, food, whatever he took it, regardless of the consequences causing mass famine that killed 3.5 million Ukrainians and millions more in other areas. Half of those who went to the Gulags never committed or were never tried for a crime. Millions died of disease, starvation, and/or exhaustion.

To say every country committed this kind of mass inhumanity is awful mischaracterization...totally untrue. The Stalin regime stripped the rights of every human being under it's control using anyone at will, often without even the pretense of legalities, which were typically a rubber stamp sham anyway.

Saying he led the country to victory is ignoring the grossest incompetence nearly any leader in history ever committed. It was his fault through the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact that the Germans had the opportunity to take Europe and commit all those atrocities, and nearly take the Soviet Union. It was his fault the Red Army performed so badly it was nearly destroyed when he eliminated so many top commanders. It was his fault by his incompetent choices and brutal methods that those 25 million Russians died during the war and up to 20 million before the war.

"No retreat Comrad", a slogan that has little to do with fact before mid-1943 after the battle of Kursk in July, and again largely caused by Stalins orders. The Russians suffered two massive retreats that nearly destroyed the army from June to December of 1941, and June to February of 1942. At Kursk the Russians were greatly prepared because the Allies had broken the German code and the Russians knew what was coming, so the damage was contained. But as you saw in "Enemy at the Gates", "No retreat Comrad" was more about being SHOT if you did than a badge of honor.

You can say Stalins grossly brutal inhumanity was what was needed to survive the Germans, but it wasn't just a war time strategy of survival, it was how a psychotic monster like Stalin always treated human life...including his own son.

He was a Monster...nothing less, and up to 50 million lives before and during the war were the cost.

When you wear the CCCP in reference to Stalin, whatever else it meant, you also invoke the monstrous idea that human life was something with no rights at all...to be spent as one person wished with no sympathy or humanity whatsoever.

...here are about 100millions people who died...

That's getting carried away. The number considered most reliable is 40-50 million, but including unaccounted for starvation caused by the war it could be higher, though not that high.

But yes, this subject should not be treated lightly or glorified in video games, especially when we see here that those games have replaced the truth of epic monstrosity. Anyone who can say this was a common feature in any country has either totally lost perspective or is incredibly lacking real information.

Halloween Mike, you cannot honor the dead...and their KILLER, Stalin, too. Sure, the battle losses were inflicted by the Germans, but it was Stalins incompetent choices that made it happen, and grossly multiplied the magnitude of the enormous losses; and that's besides the millions who died before the Germans ever got involved.

Unless you are 40 or over, many people do not even know what CCCP is.

Just about everyone knows what a Swastika means and some wear it anyway.

Stalins regime tends to get less coverage in American classes due to the great emphasis on Hitler, and Stalin ending up as an Allie in the war, but the facts are in the books.

Good luck,

Merlot
 

MtlNewbie

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Jan 24, 2009
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Oh Alyssa, even I knew that! I guess it's cuz I'm older than you. :)

I remember watching a documentary on Stalin and they had some kind of speech and everyone was clapping after, but nobody would stop because they were worried what would happen to them if they stopped. So the clapping went on for a really really long time. According to the documentary, the person who stopped clapping first disappeared after that.

I also read some books on Russia during that time that recreated the atmosphere at that time and basically you could just call in your neighbor and make something up and they'd never be seen again and this could happen at any time. If you ever did anything that could even be remotely be considered against communism, you'd disappear.
 

Halloween Mike

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Apr 19, 2009
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Merlot, i think i am gonna go back and read more, your arguments have sense and i want to investigate that. Maybe i haven't saw the entire things he did. But when i say i am still in my teen years i mean in term of partying, having fun, not settling down right now as some people do at my age, i am not mentaly retarded either :)

In any case yeah i guess it could be better to simply lock this thread. I didn't tough it would draw such reactions, literaly, when i made it up.
 

Techman

The Grim Reaper
Dec 23, 2004
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There was no retreat in the red army

I LOVE that line! Like Merlot said, if they tried to retreat they would be shot by their own commanders. Your love of the defunct Soviet Union fits perfectly with your views of Quebec politics. I'm sure you'd have no objections to a fully socialist government here where they would take all the decisions away from the populace and become the ultimate nanny state.

That explains a lot!
 

Merlot

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Nov 13, 2008
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Merlot, i think i am gonna go back and read more, your arguments have sense and i want to investigate that. Maybe i haven't saw the entire things he did. But when i say i am still in my teen years i mean in term of partying, having fun, not settling down right now as some people do at my age, i am not mentaly retarded either :)

In any case yeah i guess it could be better to simply lock this thread. I didn't tough it would draw such reactions, literaly, when i made it up.

Hello HM,

I didn't mean to imply you are a bad person or lacking mentally or anything of the sort. But it is heartbreaking to see such a vicious animal like Stalin is so misunderstood that anyone might admire him at all. To me it becomes mind-boggling that anyone does not have a fair idea of what he really was or did. But then, I guess I am more dedicated than the average person to finding out, maybe much more.

And yes, younger people are far more focused on having fun than reading about stuff like this merciless creature.

If you prefer video: "Monster: A Portrait of Stalin in Blood". It's comprehensive and accurate, but long...if that is an issue.

I also do not agree with the Soviet Union-Quebec presumptions being made by Techman, but I can see where information is lacking in one area it might also be lacking in another.

Techman, I haven't seen much about Socialism or Communism in HMs comments. It sounds closer to "warrior" worship...so to speak. Once properly trained, lead, and motivated the WW II Russian soldier was considered extremely tough.

Good luck,

Merlot
 

Techman

The Grim Reaper
Dec 23, 2004
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I wouldn't compare a country that murdered 20 million of its own people to Quebec.

...

Another person who doesn't know how to read. Where did I compare anything to Quebec? Maybe you should take some time and actually read what I wrote. :rolleyes:
 

Sol Tee Nutz

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Apr 29, 2012
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Look behind you.
I thought this was a thread about clothes that get a reaction? In my younger days I had a tee shirt with 2 stick people, a guy standing and having sex with a bent over girl and with a " Me " and arrow point to guy and " your mom " with arrow pointing to girl. It got quite a few laughs.
 

Halloween Mike

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Apr 19, 2009
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I thought this was a thread about clothes that get a reaction? In my younger days I had a tee shirt with 2 stick people, a guy standing and having sex with a bent over girl and with a " Me " and arrow point to guy and " your mom " with arrow pointing to girl. It got quite a few laughs.

That one sounds funny...

Merlot, i will check eventually for this video, i would like to know more of course. You seem to have such an hate for Stalin, more than many people have even for Hitler, are you from russian origins or does this subject touch you personally?

Techman, I haven't seen much about Socialism or Communism in HMs comments. It sounds closer to "warrior" worship...so to speak. Once properly trained, lead, and motivated the WW II Russian soldier was considered extremely tough.

It started like that, but there elements in communisme i apreciate. I hate to see how capitalist turned out, how there is extremely poor peoples, and extremely rich and the riches even have fiscal paradise to avoid to pay the governement and such. But to be honest i think every sytem has its flaw.
 

Joe.t

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That one sounds funny...

Merlot, i will check eventually for this video, i would like to know more of course. You seem to have such an hate for Stalin, more than many people have even for Hitler, are you from russian origins or does this subject touch you personally?



It started like that, but there elements in communisme i apreciate. I hate to see how capitalist turned out, how there is extremely poor peoples, and extremely rich and the riches even have fiscal paradise to avoid to pay the governement and such. But to be honest i think every sytem has its flaw.

I'm with you Mike, in theory the best system in the world is communism, imagine, we all work and we all share, but it would never work because of three terrible diseases that every human is born with, greed, hatred and jealousy.
 

man77777

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Jul 28, 2011
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The number considered most reliable is 40-50 million, but including unaccounted for starvation caused by the war it could be higher, though not that high.

Well from what I read, we can say 30M for Mao and more than 50M for Stalin... So not so far from 100M for these 2 guys if we include everything...

Anyway, Halloween is not a bad guy, I think he understood he was wrong and now regret to have opened this thread that should be closed, as he asked himself...
 

man77777

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Jul 28, 2011
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Is there any dictators or terrorists in the history who was never financed by USA and England ? ;)
 

TD Bank

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Oct 27, 2011
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Al-Qaeda....................unless you think the Americans and/or Brits are behind them too.
 

man77777

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Jul 28, 2011
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So IYO, islamists were never armed and financed to fight against regime that US want to overthrow ?
 

Merlot

Banned
Nov 13, 2008
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Hello all,

I'm with you Mike, in theory the best system in the world is communism,...

Really? Are you making a purely philosophical reference, or are you proud of the lunatic murderous North Korean and former Soviet Russian regimes too?

Well from what I read, we can say 30M for Mao and more than 50M for Stalin... So not so far from 100M for these 2 guys if we include everything...

If you meant China and the Soveit Union I can see it. I was speaking only of Russia.

The Bolshevik revolution actually was financed by wealthy financiers in London and New York. Everybody should read this G.Edward Griffin book instead of getting their history lessons from wikipedia.

http://www.wildboar.net/multilingua...s/whofinanced/whofinancedleninandtrotsky.html

Octavian,

Tell me something. Why did you say the financing came from London and New York when your own reference highlights Germany too, and the "the Rothschild Formula played a major role in shaping these events". You speak of using Wikipedia references. I learned my information before the birth of Wikipedia, and I check further.

Your implication that the U.S. government approved of what happened rings hollow. You own source cites the Rothschild Formula as a major element then calls it's use DOUBTFUL. Which is it??? You imply the U.S. conspired when your own source cites that the plan was by financiers to subvert the cohesion and effectiveness of the U.S.. Because the goal of the "Rothschild Formula" is this:

http://thebankingsystem-billpaatz.blogspot.com/2012/02/rothschild-formula.html

The division of the United States into federations of equal force was decided long before the Civil War by the high financial powers of Europe. These bankers were afraid that the United States, if they remained as one block, would attain economic and financial independence, which would upset their financial domination over the world. – Otto von Bismark

If this mischievous financial policy, which had its origins in North America, should become indurated down to a fixture, then that Government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off debts and be without debt. It will have all the money necessary to carry on its commerce. It will become prosperous without precedent in the history of the world. That country must be destroyed or it will destroy every monarchy on the globe. –Times of London


http://www.jaegerresearchinstitute.org/articles/formula.htm

The Rothschild Formula(1)
by G. Edward Griffin

Let us imagine a man who is totally pragmatic. He is smarter and more cunning than most men and, in fact, holds them in thinly disguised contempt. He may respect the talents of a few, but has little concern over the condition of mankind. He has observed that kings and politicians are always fighting over something or other and has concluded that wars are inevitable. He also has learned that wars can be profitable, not only by lending or creating the money to finance them, but from government favoritism in the granting of commercial subsidies or monopolies. He is not capable of such a primitive feeling as patriotism, so he is free to participate in the funding of any side in any conflict, limited only by the factors of self interest. If such a man were to survey the world around him, it is not difficult to imagine that he would come to the following conclusions which would become the prime directives of his career:

1. War is the ultimate discipline to any government. If it can successfully meet the challenge of war, it will survive. If it cannot, it will perish. All else is secondary. The sanctity of its laws, the prosperity of its citizens, and the solvency of it treasury will be quickly sacrificed by any government in its primal act of self-survival.

2. All that is necessary, therefore, to ensure that a government will maintain or expand its debt is to involve it in war or the threat of war. The greater the threat and the more destructive the war, the greater the need for debt.

3. To involve a country in war or the threat of war, it will be necessary for it to have enemies with credible military might. If such enemies already exist, all the better. If they exist but lack military strength, it will be necessary to provide them the money to build their war machine. If an enemy does not exist at all, then it will be necessary to create one by financing the rise of a hostile regime.

4. The ultimate obstacle is a government which declines to finance its wars through debt. Although this seldom happens, when it does, it will be necessary to encourage internal political opposition, insurrection, or revolution to replace that government with one that is more compliant to our will. The assassination of heads of state could play an important role in this process.

5. No nation can be allowed to remain militarily stronger than its adversaries, for that could lead to peace and a reduction of debt. To accomplish this balance of power, it may be necessary to finance both sides of the conflict. Unless one of the combatants is hostile to our interests and, therefore, must be destroyed, neither side should be allowed a decisive victory or defeat. While we must always proclaim the virtues of peace, the unspoken objective is perpetual war.

Whether anyone actually put this strategy into words or passed it along from generation to generation is not important. In fact, it is doubtful it has ever worked that way. Whether it is the product of conscious planning or merely the consequence of men responding to the profit opportunities inherent in fiat money(2), the world's financial lords have acted as though they were following such a plan, and this has become especially apparent since the creation of the central-bank Mandrake Mechanism(3) three centuries ago.


So in sum Mr. G. Edward Griffin is attempting to construct a plausible theory.

Cheers Bud,

Merlot
 

Halloween Mike

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In any case this thread dramaticaly degenerated over the initial subject of "do you draw attention by your presence" , including cloath, behaviors or anything else that may make people look at you like your an alien or something....
 

Sol Tee Nutz

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Apr 29, 2012
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Look behind you.
Another T-shirt I like is:
AD/HD
Highway to, Hey look a squirrel
 

Sol Tee Nutz

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Look behind you.
I agree, too much crap here.
 

Merlot

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Nov 13, 2008
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I was making reference to the ideology, nowhere in the Manifesto does it advocate murder, like always my statement went over your head like a 7/47.

Hey Joe,

You couldn't even get 747 right, originally. :lol: Nice to see you got help with the correction...finally.

Your usual boyish simplicity towards any ideas focuses on the nonexistent ideal, "theory"...not the reality:

Communism (from Latin communis - common, universal) is a revolutionary socialist movement to create a classless, moneyless, and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production, as well as a social, political and economic ideology that aims at the establishment of this social order.

Marxist theory holds that pure communism or full communism is a specific stage of historical development that inevitably emerges from the development of the productive forces that leads to a superabundance of material wealth, allowing for distribution based on need and social relations based on freely associated individuals


You love Chavez and Castro yet their attempts are failures...by definition. Marx and Engels would laugh if they could get over being disgusted.

Get it? Of course you don't. ;)

You seem to have such an hate for Stalin, more than many people have even for Hitler, are you from russian origins or does this subject touch you personally?

No Russian and nothing against Russians as an ethnic group. As for it being personal, I wouldn't think anyone would get emotional reading about this, but how could feeling people every be indifferent about real lives being disposed like popcorn.

People know about Hitler, to some point, and sane people loath him. There is much less said about Stalin, who in different ways was more ruthless and homicidal. No friend, family, or partner was ever safe never mind the average person. Stalin's rabid paranoia led to indiscriminate murder regardless of anything. When you look at the ruthlessness of the Russian Mafia you are seeing the legacy of a man and system that imprinted it's habit of brutal inhumanity on the present. When I hear people praise him...I see a person admiring a MONSTER!

Keep in mind, when I have seen this CCCP...I sometimes get disgusted, but mostly I just laugh about the absurdity. But I never think of bothering anyone about it .

Cheers,

Merlot
 
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