Double Standard

[eastender]

A recent thread about a popular MP - Borissa, raised the question of a rate increase.That is not the issue I wish to discuss here.

Why the double standard? In over 30 years I have yet to hear or read that an SP ( strip club dancer,masseuse,HDH,etc) told or wrote that a service customer should underachieve financially.

Granted that everyone is entitled to get the greatest subjective value for their money BUT everyone is also entitled to transact their time and skills for the greatest subjective return.

Why single out the providers?

 

[General Gonad]

Why the double standard? In over 30 years I have yet to hear or read that an SP ( strip club dancer,masseuse,HDH,etc) told or wrote that a service customer should underachieve financially.

eastender,

Once again, your logic is impeccable. I do not understand clients who tell SPs or MPs what they should charge. I tell them my maximum and that is it. If asked, I can give them ballpark figures about what indies charge but I will never impose prices on anyone.

GG

 

[General Gonad]

actually the monkey would probably do a better job than some of the professionals ive had over the years and be a little less hairy than some and more attractive than a few ivie seen as well
oliver bad attitude kloseoff
my opinion -like assholes we all have one

Olie,

Welcome back, I miss that witty humour of yours. Hopefully I will never run across one of these MPs, but if I do, I'll bring along some bananas.

GG

 

[Cosmo]

A recent thread about a popular MP - Borissa, raised the question of a rate increase.That is not the issue I wish to discuss here.

Why the double standard? In over 30 years I have yet to hear or read that an SP ( strip club dancer,masseuse,HDH,etc) told or wrote that a service customer should underachieve financially.

Granted that everyone is entitled to get the greatest subjective value for their money BUT everyone is also entitled to transact their time and skills for the greatest subjective return.

Why single out the providers?

eastender,

WE are the clients,the custumers,WE go to her for a service.
Have you ever had a sp/mp feel sorry for charging big bucks for her service ,be it good or lousy?
Should we always shut up and put up?

This is the first time I see clients defending a raise so agressively,it's like they're happy to pay more.
Btw,I do have peoples who want me to underachieve,they are called bosses and clients.
A 33% raise is IMHO unfair and unreasonnable.
Anyway,Oliver said it best in his post,we never tell her what to charge,and she reads the board and posts under another handle.
All we are saying is that we feel that a 20$ raise is too much,
Did we murder someone?

 

[EagerBeaver]

If there is a price increase due to practical economics (high demand = higher prices), there should never be a problem with such an increase because it is nothing more than a market adjustment. I recall some years ago there was a significantly controversial thread when Asservissante, at the time one of the more popular LDL agencies, increased its fee for a 1 hour session from $140 to $160, which is currently the market price. Martin, the operator, posted at the time to explain that he could not continue to operate charging $140 because he was losing his best girls to other agencies. What then happened was that a number of the so-called "I want something for nothing" hobbyists chimed in, demanding that Martin reduce his own fee if he wanted to keep his girls, and some also suggesting a boycott of the agency was in order. Essentially these posters believe that agency operators and SPs should work for nothing in order to keep them satisfied as customers.

Now $160 is the 1 hour market rate for an outcall escort.

The simple response to anyone who complains about a price increase is that if it was in fact an artificial increase not based on the law of supply and demand, the market will cause an adjustment over time. The consumer will not pay the increased price if same or better quality can be found at the lower price, and the price will again be forced down.

If, on the other hand, the price increase is based on a high demand for a provider, such as in some cases of LDL ladies moving on to HDH agencies, then the SP will work a bit less but be able to make a better fee for herself. There is one former LDL agency SP I know of who turned Indy, charged HDH rates and the demand for her services remained constantly high over the course of time. She is certainly entitled to charge that fee, or higher if she decides she wants to work a little bit less. The demand for her services remaining constant over time has proven that she is worth what she charges. As she gets older, of course, that may change.

I have observed that most posters really don't understand or care about the bigger economic picture and the market forces that are at work here. All they really care about is what it is going to cost them. And the biggest complainers about price increases are usually those with either the least income or the least disposable income for hobbying activities (DIFHA). So this has to be taken into consideration in reading some of these posts.

 

[General Gonad]

Great post

The simple response to anyone who complains about a price increase is that if it was in fact an artificial increase not based on the law of supply and demand, the market will cause an adjustment over time. The consumer will not pay the increased price if same or better quality can be found at the lower price, and the price will again be forced down.

If on the other hand the price increase is based on a high demand for a provider, such as in some cases of LDL ladies moving on to HDH agencies, then the SP will work a bit less but be able to make a better fee for herself. There is one former LDL agency SP I know of who turned Indy, charged HDH rates and the demand for her services remained constantly high over the course of time. She is certainly entitled to charge that fee, or higher if she decides she wants to work a little bit less. The demand for her services remaining constant over time has proven that she is worth what she charges. As she gets older, of course, that may change.

I have observed that most posters really don't understand or care about the bigger economic picture and the market forces that are at work here. All they really care about is what it is going to cost them. And the biggest complainers about price increases are usually those with either the least income or the least disposable income for hobbying activities (DIFHA). So this has to be taken into consideration in reading some of these posts.

EB,

I have to say, that is a great post. I might be more left of center in my economic views than you, but I do agree that ultimately market forces drive most rates (except for monopolies). It should be noted that wages in the general population have not risen dramatically in the last decade. I suspect that intense competition from abroad in both manufacturing and now service sectors will keep a lid on wage inflation. This means that you cannot expect dramatic increases in the price of SP/MP services as long as wage inflation remains subdued. Any artificial mark-up in prices that are not taking into account actual market forces will be counter-productive.

GG

 

[eastender]

Interesting .............

eastender,

Once again, your logic is impeccable. I do not understand clients who tell SPs or MPs what they should charge. I tell them my maximum and that is it. If asked, I can give them ballpark figures about what indies charge but I will never impose prices on anyone.

GG

Interesting approach - effectively a convergence of their minimum and your maximum.A bit of wiggle room for both parties.

 

[eastender]

Not Quite

we were never telling her what to charge.
she does read the board and posts under a handle.

my 10 yrs experiance i stated my personal opinion
50-1 hr for a standard massage and release is pretty much standard
up to 60 in my opinion is acceptable norm for a standard massage with release.

studios
many of the girls get nothing as a salary and only get their tips so they are mroe or less forced to do otions with a handjob as the start.

a person who actually goes to a massage school there is 2 levels
practitioner and massage therapist-i researched this and somewhere have all my notes
to get the latter one would incure a $9000 cost--do you think any of these girls who work studio and private put this money out or were they on the job trained

as well the girls who go to school and get the degrees have to pay tax on their salery and of these otehrs who are on the board are in a cash business--so $60/hr under the table is a prety good salary and no education is required-a bottle of oils and a good grip for the finish

i could blind fold the clients and train a monkey to do this and the cost would be a banana per clinet which is more than a lot of girls get in studios =zip salery
actually the monkey would probably do a better job than some of the professionals ive had over the years and be a little less hairy than some and more attractive than a few ivie seen as well
oliver bad attitude kloseoff
my opinion -like assholes we all have one

So if the provider was $20.00 below this standard rate you would have posted and told her to raise her rate? Think not.

Basically the provider feels that her services are such that she is not afraid of a $20.00 competitive window that will benefit her competition.

Her training and whether she gets welfare or other issues do not matter.

 

[eastender]

Underachieve/Overachieve

eastender,

WE are the clients,the custumers,WE go to her for a service.
Have you ever had a sp/mp feel sorry for charging big bucks for her service ,be it good or lousy?
Should we always shut up and put up?

This is the first time I see clients defending a raise so agressively,it's like they're happy to pay more.
Btw,I do have peoples who want me to underachieve,they are called bosses and clients.
A 33% raise is IMHO unfair and unreasonnable.
Anyway,Oliver said it best in his post,we never tell her what to charge,and she reads the board and posts under another handle.
All we are saying is that we feel that a 20$ raise is too much,
Did we murder someone?

Bosses want you to overachieve WHILE underpaying you - big difference from your position.Clients want the best possible service/price ratio and to be in a position of synergy with the supplier.The lowest price for a product is worthless if the product is not available when you need it.

To put my point in the context of your post,all that I am asking is did the SP
tell you or would she tell you to remain in the position that you are so obviously unhappy with?

 

[eastender]

Marketing

i dont know anyone who gets a 33% increase

A typical jar of instant coffee will range in price from $2.99 - $6.99 for the same brand depending on the chain and the weekly marketing cycle.

 

[Cosmo]

A typical jar of instant coffee will range in price from $2.99 - $6.99 for the same brand depending on the chain and the weekly marketing cycle.

Except that there is no one who will go:''yeah they are right on about this increase,I agree with it,if brand A is charging 5$,why wouldn't brand B do the same?''
Borissa(we know she's reading and posting under different handle) and all other mp's must be LAO right now,reading that clients are willing to pay their 33% without any resistance at all,some even justifying it for her!
Next thing they will all adjust and raise their fees.
Like Oliver said a 60$/hour under the table is already quite ''reasonnable''.
Sorry eastender but my bosses and clients won't be too happy if I ask a 33% raise in the flick of the switch.
But there are no boards for them to complaint about,unlike this one.
So I'm just using wathever tools available to get my point across.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Daringly,

Agree with you 100%.

 

[Gee]

a person who actually goes to a massage school there is 2 levels
practitioner and massage therapist-i researched this and somewhere have all my notes
to get the latter one would incure a $9000 cost--do you think any of these girls who work studio and private put this money out or were they on the job trained

3800$ for Practitioner - 400 hours of class
5700$ for Massage Therapist - 600 additional hours of class
200-300$ for school books per level.
400+ (not including tax) $ For massage table so you can practice at home.
120$ (not including tax) for bolsters and a blanket for the winter
70$ (not including tax) per set of fitted sheets. (need at least 4)
12$ (not including tax) per bottle of massage oil (I'm almost done with my 3rd bottle and I still have 2 months of that 400 hour class left)

^just in case someone was wondering why I'm poor and not reviewing right now

 

[General Gonad]

Personal thresholds...

A recent example for myself is Miss. Beatrice of fks, i had intended to see her on my next montreal trip, she was charging i do believe $550/2hrs and she now has put her prices up to $700/2hrs. Even though i can easily afford that it has passed my personal threshold of what i am willing to pay, but i could not possibly be upset with her putting her prices up if other clients are willing to pay the new fees. If people won't pay she will drop her prices. That is how things work.

Daringly,

I agree with you, if you cannot afford someone, don't bitch about her prices, just avoid her. Now, the case of Beatrice is another story. Like you, I can also afford her but I have a personal threshold of $400/2 hours. Nonetheless, I recently saw an amazing young lady who I paid $500 for two hours ($450+ tip) and I didn't mind since I knew she was well worth it. I also once paid $500 for an incall which was simply an incredible experience. I did not tip her and felt bad but after some reflection, I felt her $500/2 hour rate is enough. After a certain point, tips become a joke when dealing with independents that charge these above average rates.

But if you keep making exceptions here and there, you risk becoming impervious to price increases. I still value my money so I will try to discipline myself to stick to my threshold. If I notice that I am way out to lunch with this threshold, or that I cannot book the type of women I am looking for, then I will review it or just stop altogether. It's that simple. I do not go to a Ferrari dealership to try and bargain down the price. The market is the market and we all need to deal with our financial constraints and/or thresholds. Like anything else in life, you need to be disciplined when "hobbying."

Finally, Lion Heart has told me that if you become an FKS member, which I haven't yet, then you can get $100 off the encounter. But still, I think FKS would be better off by just sticking to a $500/ 2 hour threshold. That is my opinion but they will not do it.

GG

 

[paulo]

Pricing

The debate about what prices a SP should charge is not all that relevent. What is relevant is the market place. There's what the client wants to pay and what the SP wants. Somewhere in the middle is the Equaliberium. If an SP wants $200 for FS and the market is about $150 ($100 for her + 50/hr house), then she's charging too much and will lose out to her competition. On the other hand if she's charging $50, she then devalues the market and brings down the equalibrium. It's pure economics, pure and simple. Just like everyother industry, the sex industry is no different.

And what an interesting "market place" it is. As they say, the right price is what the buyer will pay. That "right" price is, of course, tied in to perceived value and what you are expecting to get at that price.

What is being bought and sold here are services, not goods. Therefore, a lot of subjectivity comes into play for both buyer and seller. In a "near" perfect world, (a'la eBay for goods), prices and expectations are almost universally known. Not too much wiggle room for pricing (auction results are known for similar goods bought and sold).

In this "market place", you go by your experience with other MPs/SPs and by what others post. But what others post really depends on their likes/dislikes which may be dfferent than yours.

Therefore, the buyer will stop coming to an MP/SP at a higher price and go to one with a SIMILAR service at a lower price. But how long will that take?

My own decision making process is simple: I go to the best service provider I've encountered at the most reasonable price I've paid. I will try new ones sometimes to "test" the market.

However, my need for "service" may change from week to week. Sometimes, I'd die for a therapeutic massage. Other times, I go for mileage. Once in a while, I will do both (2 massages in a day).

It is not a straightforward "market". Vive le free enterprise (sorry for my French)! Be well and prosper to all.

 

[Cosmo]

Cosmo if you don't agree with the price then the best way to make your point is to not book her services. If enough people feel the same way she will either have to drop her prices or close up shop.
A recent example for myself is Miss. Beatrice of fks, i had intended to see her on my next montreal trip, she was charging i do believe $550/2hrs and she now has put her prices up to $700/2hrs. Even though i can easily afford that it has passed my personal threshold of what i am willing to pay, but i could not possibly be upset with her putting her prices up if other clients are willing to pay the new fees. If people won't pay she will drop her prices. That is how things work.

The thing is,You might boycott her,but that won't make her bring her fees down.Other clients will still pay for it.
There might be other sp's but what if she's one your fave and still want to see her? You'll have to spit out the cash.
No matter what you do or say,they'll keep increasing their fees.
BUT I think there's nothing wrong in denouncing an inflation.

 

[General Gonad]

BUT I think there's nothing wrong in denouncing an inflation.

Cosmo,

If you can't afford your favorite because of an increase in rates, then move on. When you denounce inflation purely because it's a way to vent off your frustrations, then you're being petty. If Miss Samantha charged $700/2 hours, I would wish her the best but I wouldn't see her again. That's life - some are rich, some are poor, but we all have to live within our means. That goes for clients and SPs.

GG

 

[eastender]

Back on Track

Cosmo,

If you can't afford your favorite because of an increase in rates, then move on. When you denounce inflation purely because it's a way to vent off your frustrations, then you're being petty. If Miss Samantha charged $700/2 hours, I would wish her the best but I wouldn't see her again. That's life - some are rich, some are poor, but we all have to live within our means. That goes for clients and SPs.

GG

GG
Using your post to get the discussion back on track since it is not about inflation,negotiating techniques,marketplace economics or factors.

To date none of the situations or SPs listed in the posts in this thread have been accused of asking that the client UNDERACHIEVE financially yet clients have no qualms about asking that SPs underachieve financially.

Why is this so? Is it inherent to the client/SP relationship? Is it a sense of superiority?

 

[Cosmo]

Cosmo,

If you can't afford your favorite because of an increase in rates, then move on. When you denounce inflation purely because it's a way to vent off your frustrations, then you're being petty. If Miss Samantha charged $700/2 hours, I would wish her the best but I wouldn't see her again. That's life - some are rich, some are poor, but we all have to live within our means. That goes for clients and SPs.

GG

Yeah I'm being petty,so what?
I have all the right to be,just like mp's have all the rights to raise their fees,I guess.
eastender,I don't think that we,re asking them to underachieve.
And I don't think that we feel any superior to some mp's that asks 80$/hour.
I'm wondering why a mp would ask me to underachiev,if she'd do,how would I pay for her service???
Have you ever asked let's say,your supplier to underachieve?
It's not like we're asking her to starve for us!
Gimme a break!