No surprise, the United States are close to or near the top.
What is happening to our athletes?
CA OUT!
What is happening to our athletes?
CA OUT!
FINAL!!! Canada has 18 medals! 3 Gold 9 Silver 6 Bronze
- Thread starter CockAsian69
- Start date
voyageur11 said:
Amen to that. We are spending billions of money on health care in this country. How many people see doctors when there are no real reason for? If only a small fraction of this would go to the athletes and to mass fitness programs, this would boost our medal count and also, teach the mass public about living a healthy lifestyle, meaning less visits to the doctors office.
The current athletes in Canada are training, and have to cope with issues such as education and work in order to sustain their training. Families pitch in financially in order to finance advanced training to developping athletes until they are able to receive some money from the federal governement, which is around $25k annually, which barely covers subsistance.
LR
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Training and training facilities are everything in developing athletes. In the USA they have great training facilities in Colorado Springs, Col. for the summer athletes, and Lake Placid, NY for the winter athletes. In Connecticut, there is a very large, state of the art ice skating facility where Olympic hopefuls and professionals have trained. I believe Okasana Bauil (former gold medal ice skater from Russia) had something to do with the development of this facility after she moved to Connecticut.
In recent years, the USA has implemented developmental programs for young amateur athletes, especially in girl's basketball they now have a youth development festival every summer in Colorado where the coaches are able to assess the best young talent for the junior national teams which are now called the U-18 teams. Similar programs have been developed for other athletes in other sports.
As V-11 said, all of this requires money, good coaching, political support, and large investments of time training the athletes. Canada may lack the resources necessary to support its athletes on the same level as the USA, or China, or even Australia where they also have outstanding programs for their youth in many sports. In Australia, they have something called a "Basketball Institute" and that is one reason why they have been producing outstanding women's basketball players and a team that has challenged the USA and even beaten them once in recent years.
In recent years, the USA has implemented developmental programs for young amateur athletes, especially in girl's basketball they now have a youth development festival every summer in Colorado where the coaches are able to assess the best young talent for the junior national teams which are now called the U-18 teams. Similar programs have been developed for other athletes in other sports.
As V-11 said, all of this requires money, good coaching, political support, and large investments of time training the athletes. Canada may lack the resources necessary to support its athletes on the same level as the USA, or China, or even Australia where they also have outstanding programs for their youth in many sports. In Australia, they have something called a "Basketball Institute" and that is one reason why they have been producing outstanding women's basketball players and a team that has challenged the USA and even beaten them once in recent years.
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Hello all,
Whatever the reasons are, it's incredible that a highly modernized nation like Canada has 0 and a place like Togo has 1. It's hard to believe there isn't just one dedicated Canadian phenom who can take advantage of the facilities Canada does have and medal in some event. I'm just very surprised.
???
Korbel
Whatever the reasons are, it's incredible that a highly modernized nation like Canada has 0 and a place like Togo has 1. It's hard to believe there isn't just one dedicated Canadian phenom who can take advantage of the facilities Canada does have and medal in some event. I'm just very surprised.
???
Korbel
voyageur11 said:
Exactly. Our governments should go all out & give our athletes the best chances for them to perform at an elite level or else don't send them at all to the games. Either do it right, or don't do it at all. This is why there's a part of me that hopes Canada gets skunked at the Olympics, medal-wise. It's the best thing that could happen to us for future Olympics. There's no reasons why we couldn't keep up with a country such as Australia. Or France.
EagerBeaver said:
You hit the nail on the head. Which is why Toronto losing this year's Olympics several years ago to Bejing was disastrous. I recently read an article in the Toronto Sun about this & never realized all the benefits of hosting the Olympics. Not only on an economic level, but also for the future of our athletes. Our Canadian athletes would have state-of-the-art facilities for generations to come, Toronto would presently have a rail link to the airport, the new Olympic stadium could have been big enough to house a future NFL team, etc. One of the big reasons they came in 2nd to Bejing to host this year's Olympics was because there were some people (e.g. politicians of course) who objected to Toronto hosting the Olympics & the IOC took this into account prior to making their final decision. Just look at what the 1988 Winter Games did to Calgary. We were nothing prior to those Olympics. Ever since then, were piling up the medals in numerous competitions during the Winter Olympics.
I am glad TO did not get this years Olympics...
Our Cream of the Crop SP's would have been there for the duration, leaving us with our hands...
Plus I have a natural hatred towards Toronto... home of the Leafs... Hockey Hall of Fame should be in Montreal if you ask me!
CA OUT!
PS yes state of the art facilities would be great and all, but a few people hit it right on the head. Gym has been pushed aside for years now in elementary school and for the most part we are getting less and less exercise as we grow up because of it... Gotta start em young...
Our Cream of the Crop SP's would have been there for the duration, leaving us with our hands...
Plus I have a natural hatred towards Toronto... home of the Leafs... Hockey Hall of Fame should be in Montreal if you ask me!
CA OUT!
PS yes state of the art facilities would be great and all, but a few people hit it right on the head. Gym has been pushed aside for years now in elementary school and for the most part we are getting less and less exercise as we grow up because of it... Gotta start em young...
CockAsian69 said:Our Cream of the Crop SP's would have been there for the duration, leaving us with our hands...
Plus I have a natural hatred towards Toronto... home of the Leafs... Hockey Hall of Fame should be in Montreal if you ask me!
CA OUT!
PS yes state of the art facilities would be great and all, but a few people hit it right on the head. Gym has been pushed aside for years now in elementary school and for the most part we are getting less and less exercise as we grow up because of it... Gotta start em young...
Hello CA69,
LOL...two weeks...you couldn't deal with it for two weeks or so...lol. C'mon man...can't you love yourself for a short time to show your love for your country...LOL.
Cheers,
Korbel
Doc Holliday said:
Doc, I may have to disagree with you partially. Montreal had extraordinary facilities back in the 76 olympics. We had it all for summer olympics. However, the governments did not help athletes to use these installations properly therefore, these installations started to basically rot. Just look at the Velodrome that was transformed into the Biodome.
Another reason as well is that we are a nordic country and we perform very well in winter olympics. Canada has never performed great in summer olympics really.
Other problems such as kids nowadays are heavily interested in gaming and computers, we are developping into an obese society. The schools are cutting back on phys ed to save money. All sports are subsidized by parents for their kids. At the end, it is a miracle that we have so many athletes to send to Canada that can compete in the top 10.
LR
Lone Rider said:
Hello Lone Rider,
The U.S. has exactly these problems too. Then there is the fact that the U.S. is statistically the fattest nation in all of history with rampant obesity. Kids are glued to computers so much it's a miracle we have athletes.
Truly,
Korbel
Opportunities
EB makles a number of valid points but stops short of explaining some of the basic differences and short comings of the Canadian athletic programs.
Canadian universities do not offer athletic scholarships so the motivation to use athletics as a means to an education is severely reduced. Likewise this reduces the ability of Canada to produce home grown coaches and administrators beyond the mainstream winter sports like hockey.
Canada does not have significant corporate sponsorship. The impact of key sponsors like Nike and other home grown American sponsors on youth/amateur programs is very important. Similarly Addidas, Reebok, Puma in European countries.
The USA has a federal system in place to administer sports while Canada has a provincial system in place. Using hockey to illustrate. In the USA youth hockey is governed by USA Hockey so the age grouping are standardized across the country and the rules are standardized. In Canada , the governing body is Hockey Canada but the provincial or regional bodies can change the rules. So you have the situation where in Quebec contact in minor hockey is very limited and until this coming season the age groupings were not the same as the rest of Canada.
In Canada elite athletes at the youth levels are drawn towards hockey and football with some going to baseball, a few to basketball, because these sports provide opportunities for athletic scholarships to US universities.
There is a lack of competitive depth beyond the mainstream sports in Canada.
Kids playing hockey or football face near equal talent to make the team. This is not the case for most of the Olympic Summer Sports. The US Track and Field team is the cream of the crop. Often making the team is tougher than winning an international medal.
EagerBeaver said:
EB makles a number of valid points but stops short of explaining some of the basic differences and short comings of the Canadian athletic programs.
Canadian universities do not offer athletic scholarships so the motivation to use athletics as a means to an education is severely reduced. Likewise this reduces the ability of Canada to produce home grown coaches and administrators beyond the mainstream winter sports like hockey.
Canada does not have significant corporate sponsorship. The impact of key sponsors like Nike and other home grown American sponsors on youth/amateur programs is very important. Similarly Addidas, Reebok, Puma in European countries.
The USA has a federal system in place to administer sports while Canada has a provincial system in place. Using hockey to illustrate. In the USA youth hockey is governed by USA Hockey so the age grouping are standardized across the country and the rules are standardized. In Canada , the governing body is Hockey Canada but the provincial or regional bodies can change the rules. So you have the situation where in Quebec contact in minor hockey is very limited and until this coming season the age groupings were not the same as the rest of Canada.
In Canada elite athletes at the youth levels are drawn towards hockey and football with some going to baseball, a few to basketball, because these sports provide opportunities for athletic scholarships to US universities.
There is a lack of competitive depth beyond the mainstream sports in Canada.
Kids playing hockey or football face near equal talent to make the team. This is not the case for most of the Olympic Summer Sports. The US Track and Field team is the cream of the crop. Often making the team is tougher than winning an international medal.
Eastender,
Your point is well taken about scholarships, however, many of the top Canadian amateur athletes have gotten scholarships at major universities in the USA. I saw in the news yesterday that UConn men's soccer team is ranked preseason #2 nationally. UConn's best player, O'Brien White, who last year won the Herman Trophy given to the top collegiate soccer player in the USA, is a Canadian from the Toronto area. He led the nation in scoring last year. I also read that the top players on Canada's women's soccer team play at major American universities, and I believe the UConn women's team also has at least one player from Canada. So these Canadian athletes are able to benefit by training in the USA.
Another example is Steve Nash who played his college basketball at Santa Clara, was drafted into the NBA but now goes back to play for the Canadian basketball team. All of his training and coaching during his formative basketball years occurred in the USA.
So the bottom line is that the promising and talented Canadian athlete can seek a scholarship from a USA university and avail themselves of all the training and coaching advantages that go along with playing in the USA.
UConn's football team has also recruited a number of players from Canada. In recent years two notable starters, one who was a starting DE that played at Vanier Prep in Montreal, another a Wide Receiver from the Toronto area. I forget their names. If I scan their roster this year I am sure there are some Canadians.
Denham Brown who has played on the Canadian men's basketball team played his college basketball at UConn, and started on their 2006 team which was ranked #1 in the USA most of the year before the disappointing loss to George Mason in the Elite 8.
Your point is well taken about scholarships, however, many of the top Canadian amateur athletes have gotten scholarships at major universities in the USA. I saw in the news yesterday that UConn men's soccer team is ranked preseason #2 nationally. UConn's best player, O'Brien White, who last year won the Herman Trophy given to the top collegiate soccer player in the USA, is a Canadian from the Toronto area. He led the nation in scoring last year. I also read that the top players on Canada's women's soccer team play at major American universities, and I believe the UConn women's team also has at least one player from Canada. So these Canadian athletes are able to benefit by training in the USA.
Another example is Steve Nash who played his college basketball at Santa Clara, was drafted into the NBA but now goes back to play for the Canadian basketball team. All of his training and coaching during his formative basketball years occurred in the USA.
So the bottom line is that the promising and talented Canadian athlete can seek a scholarship from a USA university and avail themselves of all the training and coaching advantages that go along with playing in the USA.
UConn's football team has also recruited a number of players from Canada. In recent years two notable starters, one who was a starting DE that played at Vanier Prep in Montreal, another a Wide Receiver from the Toronto area. I forget their names. If I scan their roster this year I am sure there are some Canadians.
Denham Brown who has played on the Canadian men's basketball team played his college basketball at UConn, and started on their 2006 team which was ranked #1 in the USA most of the year before the disappointing loss to George Mason in the Elite 8.
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True but.................
EB,
You are correct and then some BUT you have to consider other issues. Various NCAA sports have limits on the number of scholarships that may be given "foreign players". Also the language barrier keeps a large number of the Quebec athletes away from such opportunities.
One of the virtues of elite athletes is that they make their teammates or the athletes they compete against better. When an elite Canadian athlete goes to the USA or elsewhere to improve their skills the overall Canadian program for that sport suffers since the rest of the athletes do not compete against those who have left.
Finally a number of these Canadian athltes choose to stay in the USA after their university career is over as coaches since they have become part of the US networking system for their sport. Canada loses their post career expertise.
EagerBeaver said:
EB,
You are correct and then some BUT you have to consider other issues. Various NCAA sports have limits on the number of scholarships that may be given "foreign players". Also the language barrier keeps a large number of the Quebec athletes away from such opportunities.
One of the virtues of elite athletes is that they make their teammates or the athletes they compete against better. When an elite Canadian athlete goes to the USA or elsewhere to improve their skills the overall Canadian program for that sport suffers since the rest of the athletes do not compete against those who have left.
Finally a number of these Canadian athltes choose to stay in the USA after their university career is over as coaches since they have become part of the US networking system for their sport. Canada loses their post career expertise.
Also bear in mind that while Canada has a theoretical population of 33 million (ranking 36th), people are significantly older that many other countries.
For instance, only 15% are under 15, or 5 million, while in Togo it's 47% of 5 million, or 2.5 million.
So in addition to other factors debated, the pool of available youth to train isn't that big anyway (for China, it's 25% of 1.3 billion!)
In any case, I'm completly happy if we decide to not waste our money on destroying some kids' life for the chemically modified corrupted joke professional sports have become.
For instance, only 15% are under 15, or 5 million, while in Togo it's 47% of 5 million, or 2.5 million.
So in addition to other factors debated, the pool of available youth to train isn't that big anyway (for China, it's 25% of 1.3 billion!)
In any case, I'm completly happy if we decide to not waste our money on destroying some kids' life for the chemically modified corrupted joke professional sports have become.
Doc Holliday said:
If you make the Olympic standards you're already part of the elite. Even if you have no chance to win, competing against superior athletes is a fundamental part of an athlete's development.
I'd like Canada to win medals as much as anyone else, but I'm getting tired of this obsession with medals which is essentially pushed by the media, because each medal is a "story". Just wait for Canada to win it's first medal (in rowing this weekend), we're going to hear about it for 3 days...
I don't watch the Olympics to see Canada winning medals (that's just a bonus), I watch because I get to see sports I don't get to see otherwise.
Plus, winning medals isn't getting any easier. Just look at swimming (take Phelps out of the equation, he's an anomaly), the US and Australia are nowhere near the dominant swimming powers they used to be.
Anyway, everybody is going to change their tune in 2010.
Korbel said:
Korbel,
the US has 10 times the population therefore, they have 10 times the opportunity to develop or find top athletes in their country. Its partially about statistics.
LR
As I mentioned earlier, one of the top Canadian amateur athletes most of you have not heard of is UConn senior O'Brian White of Scarborough, Ontario, who was voted the top college soccer player in the USA in 2007. It was feared after last season that he would leave UConn to sign a pro contract either in the USA or in Europe; however he decided to return to UConn for his senior season to try to win the NCAA championship. More on White here:
http://www.uconnhuskies.com/AllStories/MSoccer/2008/01/11/20080111.html
Here in Connecticut we know White very well. His exploits last year included 7 multi goal games and 3 hat tricks, which is nice in hockey but virtually unheard of in soccer.
http://www.uconnhuskies.com/AllStories/MSoccer/2008/01/11/20080111.html
Here in Connecticut we know White very well. His exploits last year included 7 multi goal games and 3 hat tricks, which is nice in hockey but virtually unheard of in soccer.
johnhenrygalt said:
Canadians are being taxed high enough already. Their governments should take care of this with the help of corporations.
Lone Rider said:
When has ANY government from Quebec ever not screw up? The bureaucrats in this province have to be among the worse in all of Canada. They screwed up real bad back in 1976 & it served as a model (a bad one at that) for future Olympic organizations in how NOT to organize Olympic games.
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