GM retailers will close in Quebec

[Moby Dick]

Hi all
lots of good people will lose jobs soon !

GM has 148 retailers here in Quebec, including 28 in the Montreal metropolitain region. (Ten are on Montreal Island, 10 on the South Shore, six on the North Shore and two in Laval). GM won't say how many it will close across the province but if the company were to apply its Canada-wide closure rate of 42 per cent to Quebec it would mean the demise of 62.

Moby dick
out

 

[Poulemeister]

According to Sources 70 of the 129 GM dealers in Quebec will be closing. That is 57%. Lots of rumors out there about which ones have received letters. If anyone knows of any confirmations it will be interesting to list.

 

[naughtylady]

That cannot be good for business... anyone's business

not just those whose client list includes GM or GM employees but all the companies who depended on companies that were GM dependant will be affected also

In other words, I not only lost my GM employees as clients, but the small independent business men who depended on a couple of dealers for business also (for example.)

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

 

[metoo4]

It's sad for the dealers, that's a given. Some of the ones hit have been in the business probably almost 50 years. The options for them will be to go to a different banner (doubtful since there's not much expansion by any majors lately), go to selling used cars or simply close-down...

What's sad is some of the reason this situation occurs. One of the big cause? UNIONS! When you have peoples paid $40/hr to do manual labour that shouldn't be paid more than $15-$20, it certainly doesn't help! $40/hr was the salary of some of the GM and Chrysler line-workers.

Now that the have a knife on the throat, unions just agreed to pay cut averaging $16/hr. The reduction itself is the average salary for a lot of peoples. That says a lot about the original salary and how much money they are still making! Peoples at GM/Chrysler were paid, in some instances, twice the salary, if not more, than somebody from Toyota doing the same job and, it's not because the Toyota peoples are underpaid. We're talking about peoples working in North America too, not comparing to Asia or Mexico.

It will be hard for these peoples too but, they must realise they had it extremely good before and now, they must join the real world.

 

[CLOUD 500]

There is also one major contributor to GM's demise that everyone is forgetting. In an ever changing market GM did not focus their efforts on the right place. Instead of working on their cars they were focused on their gas guzzling SUVs and trucks. With gas being so expensive it made no sense. But now is a little bit too late and their name is tainted. I doubt they will ever recover. Now they want to bring the Camaro back but is too late for that. Another thing is that they also need to work on quality. They consistently lag behind their Japanese competitors in reliability. When will the Big Three learn? Apparently never even at near bankruptcy.

 

[breadman]

In other words, I not only lost my GM employees as clients, but the small independent business men who depended on a couple of dealers for business also (for example.)

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

I doubt everyone effected by these cuts are quiting the business...some are just curtailing their activities and seeing a smaller group of providers. This is a well talked about subject on the fkk board/scene. Lots of guys still showing up to the club but instead of seeing 3 or 4 girls, they are only going with once to the room. Now if the price was back at the rates 5 years ago (140), you might find guys cutting corners elsewhere in their budget and keep up their normal escort pace.

 

[TheOne]

The Unions are the ones who pushed the major 3 car manufacturers to not expand their R & D, how could they when they pay those ridiculous salaries. Had the salaries been in line with the say Japanese or Europeen manufacturers, maybe more money would have been put in R & D to develop better vehicules. It's unfortunate but also gratifying for me to see this happen. Unions have become too powerful and demand way to much. The money these workers would have had in hand, after taxes and unions dues is probably the same as if they were getting paid the wages that the Japanese manufacturers pay their employees.

I'm happy to see the North American Unions take their hit.

 

[Moby Dick]

futures of the working class

Hi all

all of this started wen the gaz liter passed the 1$ . GAZ GUZLERS SUV'S
every thing u use in each & every-day was / or uses gaz in its making,transport,retailed out-lets.

i know 2 off the 10 GM montreal dealers are closing
2 friends are working in those (cut by GM)

very sad

check on Google news for some closing's on GM Dealer names comming up every day!

moby dick

out

out

 

[naughtylady]

I doubt everyone effected by these cuts are quiting the business...some are just curtailing their activities and seeing a smaller group of providers. This is a well talked about subject on the fkk board/scene. Lots of guys still showing up to the club but instead of seeing 3 or 4 girls, they are only going with once to the room. Now if the price was back at the rates 5 years ago (140), you might find guys cutting corners elsewhere in their budget and keep up their normal escort pace.

It still represents a lot of people on pogey!

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

 

[lgna69xxx]

not to change the thread but since you said it i wanted to comment on it, i wasnt around when the rates were $140/hr, if they were that rate now, i undoubtedly believe guys would end up spending more $ even tho the rates hourly would be cheaper..... kinda like the all you can eat buffet places, you really dont wanna stuff yourself, but since you feel your getting a great deal, you go ahead and do so...... kinda hard to explain but i am sure some will get my drift

in other words a client might OVER INDULGE because he thinks he is saving money due to the cheaper rates, so why not see the SP for an "extra" hour or even see an "extra" SP when normoally his hobby habit wouldnt allow him to do so, its kinda like getting sent a subliminal message so to speak

I doubt everyone effected by these cuts are quiting the business...some are just curtailing their activities and seeing a smaller group of providers. This is a well talked about subject on the fkk board/scene. Lots of guys still showing up to the club but instead of seeing 3 or 4 girls, they are only going with once to the room. Now if the price was back at the rates 5 years ago (140), you might find guys cutting corners elsewhere in their budget and keep up their normal escort pace.

 

[Merlot]

The Unions are the ones who pushed the major 3 car manufacturers to not expand their R & D, how could they when they pay those ridiculous salaries. Had the salaries been in line with the say Japanese or Europeen manufacturers, maybe more money would have been put in R & D to develop better vehicules. It's unfortunate but also gratifying for me to see this happen. Unions have become too powerful and demand way to much. The money these workers would have had in hand, after taxes and unions dues is probably the same as if they were getting paid the wages that the Japanese manufacturers pay their employees.

I'm happy to see the North American Unions take their hit.

Right,

Yes, salaries are too high, but that hardly begins to account for the stupidity of the big three American automakers in their failure to make the kind of product that would stay in reasonable demand and compete with foreign car-makers in tough times, instead of investing so much of their planning and financial commitment in big SUVs that are so costly to own for most consumers. You can blame the unions to a point, but the key mistake was strategic planning on what to produce. The auto-makers thought short term in producing SUVs for the large profits per unit, instead of looking long range and planning for a future market that was pretty foreseeable. If the details of this documentary below are true, then those in control of GM helped kill off a one possible savior.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car?

So "Greed" for immediate larger profits...is NOT good.

Insane,

Merlot

 

[metoo4]

One more problems with American car manufacturers: How many divisions are there for each make and how many models? Even GM dealers can't tell of the top of their heads how many models they sold over the last 10-15 years! The american phylosophy: let's make a ton of models so, even if it's mostly crap, some peoples will buy...

• GM:
  • Pontiac
    1. Vibe
    2. G6
    3. G8
    4. G3
    5. G5
    6. Solstice
    7. Torrent
  • Buick
    • LaCrosse
    • Enclave
    • Lucerne
  • Oldsmobile (dropped not long ago)
  • Cadillac
    • Escalade
    • CTS
    • CTS-V
    • STS V6
    • STS-V
    • Escalade Hybrid
    • DTS
    • SRX Crossover
    • XLR
    • XLR-V
    • STS
    • Escalade EXT
    • Escalade ESV
    That's 13 luxury vehicules!!
    
  • Chevrolet
    • Traverse
    • Malibu
    • Silverado
    • Cobalt sedan
    • Cobalt Coupe
    • Malibu Hybrid
    • Thaoe Hybrid
    • Corvette ZR1
    • Corvette coupe
    • Corvette convertible
    • Corvette Z06
    • HHR
    • Suburban 1/2 ton
    • Suburban 3/4 ton
    • Silverado 3500HD
    • Colorado
    • Express Cargo 2500
    • Express Cargo 3500
    • Express passenger 2500
    • Express passenger 3500
    • Express passenger 1500
    • Express Cargo 1500
    • Trailblazer
    • Equinox
    • Avalanche
    • Impala
    • Silverado 2500HD
    • Silverado Hybrid
    • Thaoe
    • Aveo 4 doors
    • Aveo 5 doors
    • Camaro
    That's an incredible 32 vehicles!! Lots of new models and the dropped list is even bigger. And there's still 4 divisions to go!
  • Saab
  • Saturn
  • GMC
  • Hummers
    

Now, let's see Honda

Honda

• Honda
  1. Accord coupe
  2. Accord Sedan
  3. Civic coupe
  4. Civic Hybrid
  5. Civic sedan
  6. CR-V
  7. Element
  8. Insight
  9. Fit
  10. Odissey
  11. Pilot
  12. Ridgeline
  13. S2000
  Most models exist since many years. Only the Prelude and CRX were ever dropped, The Civic replaced the very early 1976 CVCC.
• Accura
  • CSX
  • TSX
  • TL
  • RL
  • RDX
  • MDX

Better do less stuff and do it right, while keeping in touch with the reality.

 

[anon_vlad]

I don't at all agree that the demise of the North Am automakers had anything to do with the factory workers' salaries. German workers are, in fact, paid more per hour. Salaries account for less than 7% of the retail price of the cars. Cutting salaries by even 30% only changes the cost to the consumer by 2%. I don't believe that more than a tiny proportion of those who buy foreign cars would switch to domestic if prices were reduced by 2% on the latter.

I was listening to a talk show about cars on Vermont Public Radio. The commentators asserted that domestic manufacturers reduced the weight of their cars by, for example, using thinner glass for the windshields. In contrast, German cars are both more powerful and use less gas than 10 years ago.

The same management whose poor decisions have resulted in a glut of gas guzzlers, hacks to reduce gas mileage etc. are now consuming their own workers as scapegoats.

 

[Poulemeister]

GM has had issues but Toyota builds as many SUV's as GM does so that is not a factor. Employee salaries and benefits in the US are definitely an issue.

Hey, Moby,

Which Montreal dealers are suppose to close according to your friends? I have heard so many rumors that I can't keep up.

I heard Clermont Chev. was closing and then I see 3 brothers in the gazette claiming they are not.

I also heard that Hamel Pontiac on Lacordaire.

also Le Relais Chev on Papineau...

Can anyone confirm any of these?

 

[metoo4]

GM has had issues but Toyota builds as many SUV's as GM does so that is not a factor.

Let's see...

GM's SUV:

1. Pontiac Torrent
2. Buick Enclave
3. Cadillac Escalade
4. Cadillac SRX
5. Chevrolet Traverse
6. Chevrolet Silverado
7. Chevrolet Thaoe
8. Chevrolet HHR
9. Chevrolet Colorado
10. Chevrolet Trailblazer
11. Chevrolet Equinox
12. Chevrolet Avalanche
13. Chevrolet Suburban
14. Saab 97x
15. Saturn Vue
16. Saturn Outlook
17. GMC Acadia
18. GMC Sierra
19. GMC Yukon
20. GMC Canyon
21. GMC Terrain
22. GMC Envoy
23. Hummer H3
24. Hummer H2

I voluntary left-out the full size passenger/cargo vans.

Now, let's see Toyota:

• Toyota Rav4
• Toyota Sienna
• Toyota Highlander
• Toyota FJ Cruiser
• Toyota 4Runner
• Toyota Sequoya
• Toyota Tacoma
• Toyota Tundra
• Lexus LX
• Lexus GX
• Lexus RX

So, 11 Toyotas is about the same number as 24 GMs, right?

 

[TheDon]

Better do less stuff and do it right, while keeping in touch with the reality.

I agree, the downsizing of GM will help them do from what they have the right way. I never understood the logic in having 2 of the same cars and just having a different badge on them. Ford did it the right way when they got rid of their Mercury brand.

 

[daydreamer41]

GM dealers will get other makes

When one manufacturer goes out of business, other manufacturers pick up the business. Therefore, the GM dealer will become a Honda, Toyota, or Hyndai dealer. Canadians still need to buy new cars. Plus, there will be a service market for the existing GM cars. That demand will not drasticly decrease for a few years.

 

[YouVantOption]

When one manufacturer goes out of business, other manufacturers pick up the business. Therefore, the GM dealer will become a Honda, Toyota, or Hyndai dealer. Canadians still need to buy new cars. Plus, there will be a service market for the existing GM cars. That demand will not drasticly decrease for a few years.

except, why do you think GM is folding up shop? The demand has fell drastically, right across the board. Toyota posted the first loss in company history last quarter.

 

[Poulemeister]

Hey,

If you think changing a grille and some logos is a different model then you are right. But if you eliminate marketing and stick to actual model differences.

The Acadia/Outlook/Enclave/Traverse are all one model. They are built at the same plant (except traverse), same platform, identical mechanically .
So is the Envoy/Trailblazer/9.7x.
The Silverado/Sierra are IDENTICAL twins with different grilles.
Ditto for the GMC Canyon/Chev Colorado.
And once again ditto for the Tahoe/Yukon and Suburban/ Yukon XL

Therefore 15 models now become 6.

So the math is now 15 to 11, pretty close.

If you consider the HHR is a SUV then you should consider Toyota's Matrix as a SUV. It is built off a car platform (delta) with a 4 cyl engine.

So delete another one for GM and you are at 14 to 11. VERY CLOSE

The only Toyota that has a twin is the Lexus GX which is a Prado in the rest of the world which would add another model.

If you were to argue that there are Toyotas that are related, the LX to the LandCruiser and the RX to Highlander, then you could apply Escalade to Tahoe/Avalanche/Suburban and Vue/Torrent/Equinox.

Anyway you try to figure it out, Toyota sells and Markets as many Suvs as GM.

 

[metoo4]

Poulemeister, that's part of the problem: marketing! They often don't try to develop a sound product, instead they repackage the same stuff under different name, hoping to please as many peoples with the aestetic side instead of pleasing on the performance and ability to do what it should do reliably.

The alliance with some europeean/japanese brands for some models is the only way American car makers found to get something decent on the market. Even then, they often find ways to ruin them.

I was only talking of models sold in North America so, the fact a model exist elsewhere under a different name is irrelevant. What's relevant when talking about model clones is the HUGE structure required to change a car's front grill and lights and sell it under a different name, in a different division, often across the street.

Also the way American vehicles are marketed is a problem. Option groups to the ears, named with criptic numbers, where even the dealer can't properly explain what's included and how much will that sunroof will finally cost you. They streamlined the process in the last few years but it's still harder to figure-out than Hondas.

--

Daydreamer, the GM dealers closing in 2010 would probably love to get a different brand but, ALL brands, including Japanese/Europeans are seeing a decline is sales. It's proven worldwide peoples tend to keep their car longer. For the soon-to-be ex-GM dealers to go with a different brand, there must be a brand who's ready for expansion. I heard Honda was the only car maker who broke-even last year, saved by it's motorcycle division.

What will likely happen is most will go independent and still continue to perform service since new cars sold in 2010 will likely still be on the road in 2020 and will need maintenance. They will also specialize in selling used cars. When the economics calm down, then there might be other brands available to the strongest ones remaining.

The remaining dealers will see their volume increase and might even buy some of the decommissioned ones, turning one of the location in a service-only shop and the other in a sales-only place. For those side-by-side, it's a pretty valid solution, some have done it before,