A completely ignorant comment which demonstrates that your grasp of history isn't sufficient to be posting here:
Hamas & Israel
- Thread starter Don Julio
- Start date
FYI: I am not religious and hold a broad North American citizenship (you figure that out). And yes I have a variety of Jewish blood, so what? And I just see that Israel is on the right side of the history and is a very proud, modern country that can offer a lot to humanity unlike his enemies that only have demands, are known for a world-wide terrorist activity and nothing else.
This is clearly a very good way to put oil on the fire
www.theguardian.com
Israelis attacked Palestinian water sources over 250 times in five years, data reveals
Armed forces and settlers used bombs, dogs, poison and machinery to attack people and infrastructure at key sites
www.theguardian.com
Do you think you’re the only one to know history ?A completely ignorant comment which demonstrates that your grasp of history isn't sufficient to be posting here:
Do you know who the Palestinians mostly descended from? Have you ever heard of the Bedouin Arabs? Many of them now work as trackers for the IDF, something I am fairly certain you probably didn't know. The Bedouin Arabs, by definition, were a nomadic tribe. They had no homeland! They roamed the desert. And rode camels. Ironically your dumb quote above applies far more to the Palestinians than the Jews if you study the history of the land now known as Israel and the so called "occupied lands" for the last 5,000 years.Jewish diaspora - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
History is nice but we are today in 2025. Let’s be realistic….
I think you are more of Jewish ‘nationalist’ than a citizen of the country you’re holding a passport.
I the country you’re holding a passport is going to war against Israel for whatever reason, which uniform are you going to wear ?
If the Israeli government is secular, then how can it be hostage of the finance minister and other extreme right wing politicians born in Easter Europe ?
This is the false dilemma. Have been German Jews loyal to the Nazi regime? If my country became officially antisemitic, am I obliged to stay loyal? Did White Russians were obliged to stay loyal to Bolshevik Russia? Even now a lot of ethnic Russians or even Russians born in the Russia proper are fighting the Putin’s army in Ukraine.
I do not think you fully appreciate the dilemma or the question you have posed. A couple of real world examples.
A friend of mine was a dual Canadian and American citizen. Grew up in Canada, but married an American and settled down here. As part of becoming a state court Judge here in the USA, he was asked to swear allegiance to the USA and renounce his Canadian citizenship (this was many years ago and long before Trump). He renounced. He was not happy to do it. But the alternative was to turn down a 6 figure salary at a job he was very qualified for with a family to support. His Judgeship came at a young age (early 40s).
I know someone else who was a dual Israeli and American citizen. She served in the IDF, almost saw battle in one of the conflicts and later trained other soldiers. She married an American man and came to the USA. Was always Jewish by nationality/culture and not by religion. After living in the USA for some time and having travelled back to Israel annually for some years to visit her family there, she was detained in the airport at Tel Aviv. She was told she had to pay a tax of some kind (which I think was in the thousands of dollars) or else renounce her Israeli citizenship. She renounced. She was livid with having to make the choice, especially since she fought and risked her life for Israel. But she decided a piece of paper didn't matter and she could still consider herself an American with Israeli roots even if not technically a citizen. This worked for her. I would have probably made the same choice. I should note she was very proud of her American citizenship and wasn't going to give it up. But she didn't stop being a nationalist Jew because she wasn't going to pay a tax.
I think in practice the dilemma you mention is mostly a false dilemma. Citizenship is on a piece of paper. Loyalty can be dual whether the papers say so or not.
It doesn't matter who the Palestinians are descended from That's a race based ignorant comment. It doesn't matter what happened a millenium or so ago. That's simply ignorant cherry picking of an emotional national preference. What matters is the death of innocents by the thousands and the simple refusal to acknowledge that the immoral equivalency at work.Do you think you’re the only one to know history ?
A completely ignorant comment which demonstrates that your grasp of history isn't sufficient to be posting here:
Do you know who the Palestinians mostly descended from? Have you ever heard of the Bedouin Arabs? Many of them now work as trackers for the IDF, something I am fairly certain you probably didn't know. The Bedouin Arabs, by definition, were a nomadic tribe. They had no homeland! They roamed the desert. And rode camels. Ironically your dumb quote above applies far more to the Palestinians than the Jews if you study the history of the land now known as Israel and the so called "occupied lands" for the last 5,000 years.Jewish diaspora - Wikipedia
History is nice but we are today in 2025. Let’s be realistic….
If that's true you just wiped out all of Snakejack's posts which are based on the supposition that the Jewish Diaspora didn't happen and Jews "quit the land", when in reality it's the other way around. Whatever hardships the Palestinians have suffered is directly as a result of their corrupt leadership for the last 80 years who have intentionally profited on their suffering, as the more suffering there is the more money that pours into their coiffures from Iran etc. and the more they profit. To the point where they introduced the world to the concept of the human shield. If they had actual diplomats as leaders instead of terrorists and jihadists, they would have accepted the original UN resolution and had a state, instead they decided to make war and that's been going on for 77 years now. Maybe it's time for some better leaders?
By the way has anyone noticed that peace has existed between Israel and Egypt for almost 50 years now? How do you think that happened? It was actual real leaders sitting down, conducting real negotiations and getting a deal done. Which the Palestinians have been utterly incapable of doing.
The O Jays released a famous song in 1973 urging Israel and Egypt to make peace and guess what, 5 years later they did and it's lasted until this day:
Join hands (join)
Start a love train, love train
People all over the world (all the world, now)
Join hands (love ride)
Start a love train (love ride), love train
The next stop that we make will be England
Tell all the folks in Russia, and China, too
Don't you know that it's time to get on board?
And let this train keep on riding, riding on through
Well, well
People all over the world (you don't need no money)
Join hands (come on)
Start a love train, love train (don't need no ticket, come on)
People all over the world (ride this train, ride this train, y'all)
Start a love train (come on, train), love train
All of you brothers over in Africa
Tell all the folks in Egypt, and Israel, too
Please don't miss this train at the station
'Cause if you miss it, I feel sorry, sorry for you
Well
People all over the world (sisters and brothers)
Join hands (join, come on)
Start a love train (ride this train, y'all), love train (come on)
People all over the world (don't need no tickets)
Join hands (come on, ride)
Start a love train, love train
Ride, let it ride
Let it ride
Let it ride
People, ain't no war
People all over the world (on this train)
Join in (ride the train)
Start a love train, love train (ride the train, y'all)
People all over the world (come on)
Join hands (you can ride or stand, yeah)
Start a love train, love train (makin' love)
People all over the world ('round the world, y'all)
Join hands (come on)
Start a love train, love train
People all over the world
Join hands
Start a love train, love train
People all over the world
Join hands
Start a love train, love train
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"Which the Palestinians have been utterly incapable of doing."
LoL, do you really think I'm that naive? The Egyptians have nothing to do with the Palestinians, it's not their home that was invaded. The problem is that the folks we now call Israelis think they won but refuse to accept the responsibility for that realities and consequences of that winning. After 70 odd years it appears the Israelis are incapable of understanding they've become what they despise.
LoL, do you really think I'm that naive? The Egyptians have nothing to do with the Palestinians, it's not their home that was invaded. The problem is that the folks we now call Israelis think they won but refuse to accept the responsibility for that realities and consequences of that winning. After 70 odd years it appears the Israelis are incapable of understanding they've become what they despise.
So, kicking out Moroccan, Tunisian, Iraqi etc. Jews by hundreds of thousands to Israel was the right thing but kicking out Palestinian Arabs to Arab countries is illegal. Nice logic.
Simply a false statement. After Egypt attacked Israel on Yom Kippur in 1973, the Sinai Peninsula was taken from Egypt, and later given back. However, the difference is that the Sinai Peninsula, although militarily important because of the Suez Canal, was Egypt's land whereas the West Bank is arguably NOT the Palestinian's land in the first place, for reasons already mentioned. The difference between the 2 situations is that Egypt's leaders came to their senses and responsibly negotiated a treaty with the aid of mediators, which gave them their land back. Whereas the Palestinian leadership is more interested in profiting from the suffering they have caused (look at how their leaders have been living) and keeping some war-like situation going. It's been going on for 78 years now and needs to stop.
A 2010 study by Behar et al. found Palestinians clustered genetically close to Bedouins, Jordanians and Saudi Arabians, which the authors said was "consistent with a common origin in the Arabian Peninsula".
Exactly why a lot of "Palestinian" Bedouin Arabs make such good trackers for the IDF. They are nomads who roam and know the land. That is a lot different than having a homeland. Their so called homeland is the entire Arabian Peninsula where they wandered around for centuries. Arguably, the very term "Palestinian" is a false or at best misleading definition of who these people really are.
I reallize that having knowledge of relevant history is not a prerequisite for posting, but we have too many people posting here who are not stopping the actual historical facts from getting in the way of their ridiculous posts. The Mods need to delete a number of posts in this thread as complete bullshit and revisionist or whitewashed history laden with antisemitism from posters who have no grasp of history and are regurgitating drivel.
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I have to think that you are a Zionist, not a Jewish guy.
Under wich flag would you fight if Canada or USA had to go to war against Israel ?
One more time. Read and think and go for a very short answer….
If in 2025 Canada or the USA had to go to war against Israel, under wich flag would you fight?
These false dilemma questions not rooted in reality are silly. I am neither a Zionist nor Jewish. By ethnicity I am half Jewish. I am also too old to fight or be conscripted in any war so the question is irrelevant. Most of the males in my family served in the United States armed forces, but I do not qualify for military service for physical/health reasons.
I am calling it as I see it but also from the perspective of having feedback from Israeli relatives I regularly communicate with.
Ah, the Chosen Ones choose to reveal themselves! I’m shocked… Heh. Of course, they’re the most righteous vociferous defenders of Israel.
I do find it interesting how quickly True North and any semblance of moral compass disappear among Jewish American friends when Israel comes up. Otherwise highly rational and kind and good people suddenly harden and become oblivious to grossly apparent genocide and immoral actions. I get it why Netanyahu loves to conflate Israel with all of Jewish diaspora. Wolves among sheep. As soon as someone is critical of Israel, they’re branded an “anti-Semite” and enemy of ALL Jewish peoples. But I don’t get why the Jewish diaspora go along with this trope. Netanyahu is just a vile man who spews lies - and even some Israelis and Haaretz point this out. But American Jews? Staunch defenders to the very end.
So we’re wasting our breath trying to debate rationally. It’s a waste of time. It will never be a rational discussion.
Thankfully, the general attitude towards Zionists in the US, and around the world, is finally shifting. Everyone else has started seeing the light. Evangelicals are starting to realize their error, and support is starting to dwindle. And the youth of our country, and the world, are seeing the cancer that is Israel for what it is. So take solace in that. Give it a generation or two, maybe we’ll be able to extricate the rot that is the Israel Lobby from American foreign and domestic policy and relieve the burden off American taxpayers’ backs.
I do find it interesting how quickly True North and any semblance of moral compass disappear among Jewish American friends when Israel comes up. Otherwise highly rational and kind and good people suddenly harden and become oblivious to grossly apparent genocide and immoral actions. I get it why Netanyahu loves to conflate Israel with all of Jewish diaspora. Wolves among sheep. As soon as someone is critical of Israel, they’re branded an “anti-Semite” and enemy of ALL Jewish peoples. But I don’t get why the Jewish diaspora go along with this trope. Netanyahu is just a vile man who spews lies - and even some Israelis and Haaretz point this out. But American Jews? Staunch defenders to the very end.
So we’re wasting our breath trying to debate rationally. It’s a waste of time. It will never be a rational discussion.
Thankfully, the general attitude towards Zionists in the US, and around the world, is finally shifting. Everyone else has started seeing the light. Evangelicals are starting to realize their error, and support is starting to dwindle. And the youth of our country, and the world, are seeing the cancer that is Israel for what it is. So take solace in that. Give it a generation or two, maybe we’ll be able to extricate the rot that is the Israel Lobby from American foreign and domestic policy and relieve the burden off American taxpayers’ backs.
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You are really bemuse me Wolfie … Keep having your wet dreams. This is all you will have when wake up under the Sharia law.
You're stuck in your paradigm; it's kicking out that's wrong, period, doesn't matter who does that. The illogic is in thinking that complaining about being a victim by creating victims is somehow moral.
Exactly, to treat “kicking out” equally we need to remember that not only Palestinian Arabs were expelled from Israel, but almost equal number of Jews were expelled at the same time from Arab countries.