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Hockey Canada sex assault scandal

Doc Holliday

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This video provides a good overview of how this case became politicized after the settlement was revealed.

This is so good & spot on! When i first watched the entire video of the police press conference a couple of days ago i was almost repeating some of the same things the narrator is saying! When i watched this a few minutes ago i was thinking ‘holy shit was someone recording me the other night?’ Anyways over the past two weeks we’ve only been witness to the prosecution’s portion of the trial & have yet to hear the defence’s witnesses. Yet i’m already extremely skeptical of the prosecution’s case & we’re not even halfway into the case yet!

Let me say this: if the defendants all end up walking free as i suspect will happen the prosecution will have a grave disservice to actual victims of similar sexual assaults. Why? Because from now on everyone who has been able to see what is actually happening & how poor of a choice it was to chose to prosecute this particular case will make everyone skeptical of other similar cases which actually should be prosecuted. It will harm the actual victims of sexual assault & cause even more victims NOT to pursue matters further. By the way i’d be willing to bet a large amount of money that the feminist groups parading in front of the courthouse to harass the accused & their lawyers that they haven’t even bothered to research or even follow this case. CHOSE YOUR BATTLES WISELY.
 

Doc Holliday

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Thinking about this case today & it just hit me that the only thing E.M. testified to that i believe 100% is when she said she overheard some of the guys talking among themselves while she was giving head and/or demanding they have sex with her saying: “This girl is fucking crazy!” Both E.M. & witnesses agreed that this was said.

As for the other stuff she said while on the stand some may be true & some may not be. It’s also possible that her perception of some of the details is completely or partially different from reality. This is normal. Often our versions of some events are often different with other persons who experienced or witnessed the same event.
 

EagerBeaver

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If they thought she was crazy and proceeded anyway, they assumed the risk of her craziness. I think jock egos got in the way of straight thinking here. Any time in my life I had the same thought about a woman, whether it was at a college party, or on SA dates (which did happen to me!) then I did not proceed and instead I got the hell out of there.

It's very hard to feel totally sorry for these guys. Dummies eventually pay for their mistakes, which is why they are dummies.
 
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Doc Holliday

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If they thought she was crazy and proceeded anyway, they assumed the risk of her craziness. I think jock egos got in the way of straight thinking here. Any time in my life I had the same thought about a woman, whether it was at a college party, or on SA dates (which did happen to me!) then I did not proceed and instead I got the hell out of there.

It's very hard to feel totally sorry for these guys. Dummies eventually pay for their mistakes, which is why they are dummies.
Easier said than done. When the smaller brain takes over the bigger brain & decides it wants something it usually wins.
 

Flabert

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This is so good & spot on! When i first watched the entire video of the police press conference a couple of days ago i was almost repeating some of the same things the narrator is saying! When i watched this a few minutes ago i was thinking ‘holy shit was someone recording me the other night?’ Anyways over the past two weeks we’ve only been witness to the prosecution’s portion of the trial & have yet to hear the defence’s witnesses. Yet i’m already extremely skeptical of the prosecution’s case & we’re not even halfway into the case yet!

Let me say this: if the defendants all end up walking free as i suspect will happen the prosecution will have a grave disservice to actual victims of similar sexual assaults. Why? Because from now on everyone who has been able to see what is actually happening & how poor of a choice it was to chose to prosecute this particular case will make everyone skeptical of other similar cases which actually should be prosecuted. It will harm the actual victims of sexual assault & cause even more victims NOT to pursue matters further. By the way i’d be willing to bet a large amount of money that the feminist groups parading in front of the courthouse to harass the accused & their lawyers that they haven’t even bothered to research or even follow this case. CHOSE YOUR BATTLES WISELY.
For the prosecutors, not prosecuting would have been career suicide considering how amped up society was.

Remember that there are still protestors against the players in front of the entrance this week despite all that we learned. They are all in and don’t care about the very apparent innocence of the accused in this case.

On a sad counterprotest move I am seeing the name of the accuser online (would never repost it here). This case is breaking norms as observers clearly see the foundations of justice are cracking.

Wonder if this also affects future payoffs by hockey canada to alleged victims? Can’t seem like a good investment considering this case
 

Doc Holliday

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For the prosecutors, not prosecuting would have been career suicide considering how amped up society was.

Remember that there are still protestors against the players in front of the entrance this week despite all that we learned. They are all in and don’t care about the very apparent innocence of the accused in this case.

On a sad counterprotest move I am seeing the name of the accuser online (would never repost it here). This case is breaking norms as observers clearly see the foundations of justice are cracking.

Wonder if this also affects future payoffs by hockey canada to alleged victims? Can’t seem like a good investment considering this case
-It may end up being career suicide if they end up badly losing this case & the case may end up being looked upon as a case which never should have been brought to trial. In other words a witch hunt.

-Who cares about protestors? They shouldn’t be able to affect a verdict or put pressure on the prosecution. It’s more often than not a bunch of disgruntled losers with no better things to do other than to cause trouble in pursuit of their usual agenda. It’s always a rush to judgement with these idiots & due process should not exist in their minds.

-It’s unfortunate that the plaintiff’s name was leaked out but in the age of social media it’s not surprising. Her name would have eventually come out anyway. The way i see it if the accused are forced to have their names made public i don’t know why the accuser shouldn’t have her own name made public. It should be a two-way street. Same thing with hiding her in a room with a camera & monitor for her testimony. I feel she should be willing to face the people she accused & who’s lives are nearly ruined.

-There will be no more payouts from Hockey Canada for sexual assault cases unless its from civil action. No more secret slush fund, no more secret payouts, no more buying silence. Hockey Canada lost many high profile sponsorships due to this case alone & was nearly disbanded.
 

Doc Holliday

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As the Hockey Canada trial drags on, the prosecution's case seems confounding
Ex-teammate Brett Howden said the complainant was ‘chirping guys, egging them on’ to engage with her. Howden testified Tuesday for the prosecution in the case against Michael McLeod, Cal Foote, Dillon Dubé, Alex Formenton and Carter Hart

Ex-teammate Brett Howden said the complainant was ‘chirping guys, egging them on’ to engage with her. Howden testified Tuesday for the prosecution in the case against Michael McLeod, Cal Foote, Dillon Dubé, Alex Formenton and Carter Hart.

May 20, 2025
By Rosie DiManno - Star Columnist

It is peculiar how the prosecution is doing so much of the heavy lifting for the defence in the trial of five former junior hockey players who’ve pleaded not guilty to a fistful of sexual assault charges.

Far be it for me to question trial strategy. I don’t believe myself to be smarter than a lawyer — which was the trap door that the complainant occasionally fell into during her nine days in the witness stand.

Lawyers rarely ask questions to which they don’t already know the answer. And this trial in a London, Ont., courtroom, has been interminable, with the most picayune of details being picked over again and again. It also demonstrates how different Canadian trials are from American trials, which usually move much more swiftly through the evidence.

Even before this trial launched — a mistrial and a discharged jury ago — there were reports that the Crown had 47 names on its witness list. That doesn’t mean 47 individuals will be called upon to testify.

But Tuesday saw the fourth player who was a member of that 2018 world championship team summoned by the prosecution. None of these young men was ever charged with anything although all had been among the group that had convened at Jack’s Bar on the night of June 18, 2018, following a Hockey Canada gala where they’d received their rings. And all had, at some point, been in Room 209 of the Delta Hotel where the alleged sexual assaults had occurred in the wee morning hours of June 19, witnessing some of the purported incidents.

Thus far, each of those players has essentially supported the defence position that the sex was consensual, that the complainant was a willing participant, and that she outwardly gave no indication of being distressed or unenthusiastic. None has buttressed the prosecution case.

In her own testimony, the complainant — known only as E.M., her identity protected by a standard publication ban — said she had gone willingly to the hotel with one of the defendants, Michael McLeod, expecting they would have sex, but was shocked when he then text-invited teammates. Further, she told court — there was a still a jury empaneled at the time — that her mind had separated from her body during what she described as the ordeal; that she’d even taken on a “porn star persona” in order to deal with what was happening. This survival mechanism, she said, explained her behaviour — the comments she made in a video McLeod filmed on his phone, and the contents of a text exchange later with McLeod where she stated that everything had been consensual and not to worry.

Equally confounding, at least to me, is why the prosecution made an exhibit — entered last week through another player, Tyler Steenbergen — documenting a group chat among players after they learned that Hockey Canada had launched its own investigation of the event, and that they would be interviewed.

What jumps out from that group chat is how often the players insisted to one another that they’d done nothing wrong, that it was all consensual, and that E.M. had been the instigator of what transpired. None of it in my view — and I can say this now that it’s a judge-alone trial — supports the Crown’s case. They were worried, certainly. But there’s no suggestion in the texts — and at that juncture the players didn’t realize the contents would someday become public in a courtroom — they were colluding to hide anything. What was said, repeatedly: “Just tell the truth.’’

So, on Tuesday under oath it was Brett Howden — now an NHL pro with the Las Vegas Golden Knights — testifying via video link for the prosecution in the case against McLeod, Cal Foote, Dillon Dubé, Alex Formenton and Carter Hart.

Under questioning from Crown attorney Meaghan Cunningham, Howden testified that he’d seen E.M. perform oral sex on McLeod and Hart and that he believed the complainant was a willing, even craving, participant. “She was asking guys to engage in sexual intercourse with her. I wasn’t worried about her in any way. She seemed like she wanted to do stuff.’’

It was he, said Howden, who’d introduced E.M. to McLeod at Jack’s Bar. He later went to McLeod’s room in response to a text McLeod had sent about food being available. Howden was hungry after several hours spent at the bar. “I remember just hanging out, more preoccupied with trying to get food.’’

He saw E.M. coming out of the bathroom.

“I remember being surprised that she was there. I didn’t know how she got there or why she was there.’’

While some of his memories were vague, Howden recalled this part quite assuredly. “What brought my attention to her was that she was coming on with whoever was around … trying to flirt with whoever she could flirt with.

“I remember things started to escalate quickly. That’s when she started asking the guys if any of them would have sex with her. Then she started chirping guys, egging them on, because nobody was taking her up on what she was asking for, calling guys pussies for not engaging with her. She couldn’t believe nobody was taking her up on her offer.

“I just remember everybody was pretty shocked, couldn’t believe she was being this aggressive and wanted all these things. It got kind of quiet because nobody could believe what she said … It was just kind of awkward being there.’’

Howden recalled Hart finally saying: “OK, fine, I’ll take her up on it.’’

Hart, continued Howden, was standing while E.M. got on her knees to perform oral sex.

E.M. then allegedly took Formenton into the bathroom. He’d said to the others, “Should I be doing this?’’ To which the consensus had been: “She’s taking you into the bathroom. It’s really your call.’’

“No one was telling him not to do it because she seemed excited that someone had taken her up on the offer,’’ said Howden.

Cunningham raised the matter of the players’ group text a week later, upon discovering that Hockey Canada had initiated an internal investigation. In one of his texts, Howden had mentioned flipping the allegations back against the complainant. (“Nobody forced her to do anything. If anything, we should put allegations on her.’’)

Explaining that text on Tuesday, Howden said: “During all this, I think there was some anger that was coming across because in that situation she was the one initiating everything and the one putting us in that situation.’’

Court was dismissed early after Cunningham told Justice Maria Carroccia that she wanted to address what she believes are inconsistencies in his testimony, compared to statements he’d previously given to investigators. This is her witness.

Cunningham took the rare step of asking the judge for time to prepare an application under the Canada Evidence Act that would allow her to cross-examine — typically the defence's job — her own witness over inconsistencies from previous statements and gaps in memory..

"It's the Crown's position that this is not the kind of memory loss that would bring itself within past recollection.''
 
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Flabert

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Am starting to think the prosecutors felt pressure to prosecute in the me too frenzy and now want us to clearly see how bad the case is.

Could this case be anything beyond intentional sabotage at this point?
 
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Doc Holliday

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Do we know when the trial is scheduled to end?
It was scheduled to last about two months & we’re still not at the halfway mark. The defense has yet to begin its portion of the case. But the way this case has been going i wouldn’t be surprised if it ends prematurely. They just barely avoided having another mistrial & we’re not at the halfway point yet!

p.s. The jurors were the biggest problem so far. Too many Karens.
 
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Doc Holliday

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Am starting to think the prosecutors felt pressure to prosecute in the me too frenzy and now want us to clearly see how bad the case is.

Could this case be anything beyond intentional sabotage at this point?
Even a few reporters are now beginning to see a problem with the Crown’s case & are scratching their heads at the quality of witnesses the prosecution has called to the witness stand. Brett Howden certainly hasn’t helped their case nor has previous witness Tyler Steenburgen. Their first witness E.M. also wasn’t very convincing & the defence (in my opinion) brought up many points which created doubt into her version of the events both at the pub & in the hotel room. Anyways if the Crown wants to win this case they better find better witnesses which will help their case instead of helping the defence!
 

hankiepankie

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Wow I read the coverage quickly and was convinced the 2 witness players were defence witnesses. This is incredible. Time for the prosecution to pull out of this one, this is an aberration of justice
 
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Doc Holliday

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Wow I read the coverage quickly and was convinced the 2 witness players were defence witnesses. This is incredible. Time for the prosecution to pull out of this one, this is an aberration of justice
The thing is that you still have a lot of people who see things the other way. This morning i was listening to Martin Leclerc on BPM Sports & he’s convinced that Bret Howden was intentionally perjuring himself on the witness stand. He added that although he was never charged he was doing it to protect his friends & former teammates. The good old boys club protectimg one another. Personally i don’t find it unusual that people can have memory lapses when being asked to recall events that happened 7 years ago & when they were drunk on top of that. Howden also plays a violent sport where blows to the head occur & concussions do happen. It’s entirely possible that he doesn’t have a perfect memory. Even defence lawyer Meghan Savard mentioned today that the prosecution had previously met with Howden in person in Alberta prior to the beginning of the trial & could have judged for themselves how good his memory of the events were instead of acting surprised after his testimony….AND HE’S THEIR WITNESS!

I agree that his previous testimonies & texting with a former teammate would be more beneficial to their case. But didn’t they know what he’d be saying on the stand the other day? I feel that they were extremely lazy & should have done their homework! A good lawyer should know the answer to every question he/she asks a witness. ESPECIALLY THEIR OWN WITNESS! NOW THEY’RE TRYING TO DISCREDIT THEIR OWN WITNESS!

Now the Crown appears to be obsessed about Dillon Dube’s slap on the complainant’s ass. Was it a hard slap as some may have seen or heard? Or was it just a playful slap? I mean HE SLAPPED HER ASS! WHILE SHE WAS COMMITTING A SEX ACT! It’s not like he slapped her across the face or beat her up. It was a playful slap on her ass! And for me whether it was a soft slap or a hard slap shouldnt really considering the perspective of the whole thing. He slapped her ass. Big fucking deal. So his life & hockey career should be ruined because he slapped her ass while she was giving head? What the actual fuck?

THIS CASE HAS BECOME A CIRCUS AND NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN PROSECUTED. PERIOD.
 

EagerBeaver

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This reminds me of one of the escort parties we staged, with escorts from the Good Girls agency in a private room of the Queen Elizabeth hotel. Four guys and four escorts. One of the escorts asked to have her ass belted at the end of the party. She was my date, but after I refused to do it, she asked to have her ass belted by another guy at the party. He used my belt, as I recall. She bent over a chair and he lashed her ass with the belt, gently at first. She urged him to belt her ass harder, and he incrementally increased the power on the second lashing, but it was still somewhat of a playful belting of her ass. She then again asked to be belted harder. This time, he really wound up, and belted her ass so hard that I winced. It was a Roots style, tremendous lashing of the ass. She let out a yell, and said "Wow! That really hurt!"

After the 2 hours of partying ended, I took her up to my room at the Queen E for "private time". I had seen her before, and she had a terrific ass, which was her best feature other than her face. Anyway, she takes her clothes off and her ass had red welts across it where she received her lashing. I mentioned this to her. She said to me, "your friend really hit me harder than what I was expecting." She was not sounding like she was going to the police, but was what I would describe as mildly unhappy. Anyway, she then gave me a blow job and let me come in her mouth.

The next day at breakfast I reported all of this to my friend who belted her ass. I said to him, "dude, you know you ruined her fucking ass for me, did you have to hit her that hard???????" He looked at me and said, "EB. WTF, she was asking me to hit her hard, so I did." I then told him that the ruined ass was gonna cost him and he owed me one.

I guess this story shows that there can be differences of opinion on what constitutes a good ass slap, and I think it's best to abstain from the activity, first because it's subjective how much pain is felt from the ass slap, and second, the last thing you want to do is ruin a girl's beautiful ass with welts or bruises.

As far as this ass slap being a part of the Hockey Canada case, it sounds kind of ridiculous to me. The only thing I will say is some people do not like having their asses slapped or touched, even though they are open to a lot of other things. But even if that was the case, criminal cases are based on mens rea or intent, and trying to prove an ass slap was hurtful rather than playful under these circumstances is ridiculous, and not something the prosecutor should be doing. If you are doing this, then your case is really shit.
 

Doc Holliday

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As far as this ass slap being a part of the Hockey Canada case, it sounds kind of ridiculous to me. The only thing I will say is some people do not like having their asses slapped or touched, even though they are open to a lot of other things. But even if that was the case, criminal cases are based on mens rea or intent, and trying to prove an ass slap was hurtful rather than playful under these circumstances is ridiculous, and not something the prosecutor should be doing. If you are doing this, then your case is really shit.
I totally agree. No matter if the slap was soft or hard the point is that it was obviously done in a playful way. And to think that this is all that the prosecution has on this guy (Dillon Dube). A slap on the buttocks. They practically ruined his promising hockey career & robbed him of millions when all he did that night is playfully slap her ass while she was giving head to another guy! It’s fucking ridiculous & prosecutors should be ashamed of themselves!
 

Doc Holliday

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The trial resumes this morning with the Crown re-examining Bret Howden about some of the inconsistencies in previous testimonies. The judge seemed to side in his favor yesterday in regards to his memory issues & that they were not intentional in order to protect the defendants. He appears to be the type of person that doesn’t have a way with words. One of the defence attorneys kind of mentioned that he’s also a bit of a flake & that the prosecution shoukd have seen this when they interviewed him in Alberta last year. I mean…THE GUY SHOWED UP FOR HIS TESTIMONY WEARING A HOODIE! When i saw his courtroom sketch the other day i immediately reacted and said “Holy shit he’s testifying in court in a hoodie!” Doesn’t seem like a very serious person. A bit of an oddball.
 

Doc Holliday

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Bret Howden
He continued testifying today but this time he wore a white golf shirt & his hair was combed. I suppose comments on social media & from one of the lawyers must have had an effect. Comments made him seem like a vagrant & his hair was all over the place making him seem like he had just got out of bed! And Carter Hart’s lawyer’s comments about him yesterday unintentionally made him seem like he may be mentally challenged or something! Lol

Anyways today he was questioned by the head prosecutor & by Dillon Dube’s lawyer to try to explain some of the possible inaccuracies in his various testimonies. At one point he started crying when talking about his family & how he’s tried to get past this incident that happened 7 years ago. By the way an experienced lawyer following the case told one of the CBC correspondents that he wasn’t entirely surprised that Howden’s recollections of the case have changed over the years because the case happened 7 years ago & if the Crown wanted witnesses with more accurate memories all they had to do was to prosecute this case closer to the time it happened & not wait 7 years later. Not everyone has a great memory.

Speaking of Howden I’m starting to realize why E.M. lost interest in him at Jack’s & set her sights on Mike Mcloud! Lol
 

Doc Holliday

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Interesting observations from a lawyer following the trial
IMG_1910.jpeg
 
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CaptRenault

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The account of today's proceedings should leave no doubt in anyone's mind that the players are not guilty. Even the true-believing protestors outside the court house have dwindled down to 12 from 40 or more last week.

Most of the day was spent on questioning (by both sides) of retired police officer Stephen Newton, who conducted the initial investigation in 2018. He made it clear that, based on interviews that he conducted with the girl and several players, he believed that the girl was not too drunk to consent, she consented to the sex and the players were uncomfortable with her insistence that they have sex with her. He also revealed that it was the boyfriend of the girl's mother who initially contacted the police. The girl initially did not want to see the players charged-she just wanted the police to talk to them. :rolleyes: In any case, the investigating officer decided that the players should not be charged with a crime.


...At the end of the night, Formenton says in the recorded police interview, McLeod asked the woman how she was getting home and she told him she was getting an Uber.

McLeod then went for a shower and the woman went into the bathroom after him, Formenton says.

After McLeod left the bathroom, he took a video of the woman, Formenton says to the detective, who asks why McLeod took the video.

“I’m not sure, to be honest,” Formenton responds.

“She was saying that she had a lot of fun and she was OK with all the events that went on. It was all consensual,” Formenton tells the police officer. “I saw her say that she had a lot of fun and I think she’s smiling in the video.”

...Newton says he learned E.M.’s mom’s boyfriend spoke to police on June 19 and told them there was potential sexual assault to report.

The boyfriend said, and Newton understood, that E.M. (referred to as “the young lady” by Humphrey and Newton during today’s testimony) didn’t want her name given to police or to anyone at that time, and she didn’t want to report anything to police or want McLeod to get in trouble.

The boyfriend told police McLeod “got the young lady drunk and then she was sexually assaulted,” Humphrey suggests to Newton, who agrees.

Other things the lawyer suggested to Newton, and to which he agreed, include:

  • McLeod invited friends into the room.
  • The gist of what the detective was told was E.M. was “extremely drunk,” “may have blacked out” and doesn’t remember going to the Delta with McLeod.
  • The boyfriend said E.M. had woken up naked in a room with several young men.
  • E.M.’s mom spoke to police and was told her daughter could make a sexual assault complaint anonymously.
  • E.M. and her mom were going to a clinic to get medical attention
In summary, here’s what Newton agrees to under Humphrey’s cross-examination:

  • E.M.’s mom eventually told Newton her daughter might make a police report if she is assured charges wouldn’t be laid, and later E.M. texts the officer and says she’s willing to speak to London police.
  • They arrange to meet on June 22, 2018, and E.M., early on in the conversation, tells Newton she does not want to proceed with criminal charges or to go to court, she would be “satisfied if Newton speaks to the men about what they did.
  • During the initial interview, E.M. is offered support from victim services, Humphrey says. Newton agrees he emphasized to her that they could take breaks, and if she was feeling uncomfortable, she should let Newton know.
“Were you trying to make her as comfortable as possible so that you could get as complete and accurate a memory of the events as possible?” Humphrey asks Newton.

“Yeah,” the detective replies.

“Because this was three days and five hours after she left the Delta, … you wanted her to tell you the whole story first in her own words, right?” Humphrey asks, to which Newton agrees.

...Before interviewing E.M. on June 26, 2018, Newton says, he watched the video from the Delta lobby that made him think she didn’t appear to be so intoxicated that she didn’t have the capacity to consent.

Newton told E.M. that day “there appeared to be a certain level of consent to the sexual activities,” Humphrey suggests, to which Newton agrees.

“And by that you meant that what she was telling you was that she was an active participant in the sexual interaction?” Humphrey asks.

“Yes,” Newton answers.

Newton says he explained in that June 25, 2018, phone call that even if he had grounds for arrest, the men did not have to talk to him.

He says he wanted E.M. to understand she shouldn’t go forward with charges just so the men are forced to speak to police.

(During E.M.’s testimony in this trial, she said she had initially asked police if they could just talk to the men, not necessarily to conduct a criminal investigation).

Newton again reiterated that going ahead with charges has to be her decision, not a result of pressure from anyone, including her mother, he testifies. He also says he told E.M. he would only be speaking to her, not her mom or anyone else, from now on.

“I thought it was appropriate that her and I discuss her decisions and that we talk directly, not through someone else,” Newton tells Humphrey.

Newton testifies he asked E.M. during that interview if she was getting pressure from her family, and E.M. told the then police investigator that she wanted him to suspend the investigation for the time being, with the view to reopening it in the future.

At some point, Newton told E.M. he might not be able to charge the men, given what E.M. has told him about what happened, as well as her level of sobriety and ability to consent. Shortly after, E.M. called him and asked for a female investigator, Newton testifies. Humphrey seems to be suggesting there is a connection between those two events...
 
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