Honesty

[General Gonad]

I know there are some people out there who would prefer not knowing about the "bad" things going on in other people's lives, and who would prefer living in denial. That's up to them, even though I don't think that's healthy

Harmony,

It isn't denial, it is just that some things are extremely difficult to share for me and for her to listen to. She knows full well what I am going through but she cannot deal with it. Hell, I cannot always deal with it. You cannot deny what is so painfully obvious.

GG

 

[naughtylady]

My relationship has endured much graver problems than anything you can imagine.

Why would you say this? (Speaking as a woman who previously ended a 15 year relationship.) You don't know my life just as I don't know yours.

All I ask of you is to accept that your own relationship rules, which are perfect for you, may not be perfect for everyone else.

I doubt that many people could live with my relationship rules, even if I were to add monogamy to them. Every relationship has it's own rules. Here is a very simplistic example. Do you have to call your spouse before leaving work? For some couples this is a must; For others it is equal to suffocation.

You say that if you fell in love with an SP who loved you also, and if you decided to try to make the relationship work, you would insist that she quit working as an SP. What if financialy you were barely getting by yourself (much less able to support someone else)? Do you think that she should immediately quit her main source of income from the start? I could understand planning a change of career for her but to insist on her quitting right away? Kind of presumptous is it not? Don't answer. It doesn't matter.

All I am getting at is that what works for me will probably not work for you; and what works for you may not work for someone else. There is no one right way. To get along socially in this world, we need to accept that our way is not the only way. Simply being different isn't being wrong.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

 

[B1G]

Ronnie,

My relationship has endured much graver problems than anything you can imagine. I have my doubts about whether or not things will work out, but this is not a case of "projecting" onto you or anyone else what I feel is common sense. For me, if I fell in love with an SP and she really loved me, I would demand that she stop SPing immediately. No two ways about it. I am not here to share my wife or anyone else that I could potentially fall in love with in the future with hundreds of men.

I am going to be blunt: perhaps Vince doesn't care about you as much as you think and vice versa. If he really loved you the way a devoted partner should love you, he would feel jealousy and be extremely uncomfortable with the notion that other men are sticking their penis in you.

I know I am not the paradigm model husband to speak on love. But there is nothing you can say to convince me that "open" relationships are normal, loving, healthy relationships. They are a recipe for disaster and doomed for failure. Be honest with yourselves and admit it. I hope I am wrong in your case but I doubt it.

GG

GG

It's easy to see that your definition of love is monogamy. For you love=sex. For you Sex should not exists without Love! If you deny this then you are telling us, "casual sex before love is okay, but once there is love, casual sex is wrong." ( by casual sex ,I mean sex with friends, or one nighters)

Think about it now..... What is wrong with having sex with friends? (someone you meet and get along well with ) ... The only thing wrong about it is the fact that your 'life partner' might feel betrayed.

Now, what about a relationship where both people involved think of sex as a good time. Two people who just like sex as an enjoyable activity and who think involving others just adds spice to thier lifes.

I can already 'hear' you saying... "That's impossible, the feeling of betrayal will always be there!!" "A relationship cannot endure polygamy"

Sorry, but if you think this way, your mind is WAY too CLOSED for any further disscussion on the subject.

There are so many different people, so many different views, so many different values, how can anyone say somthing is IMPOSSIBLE.

I've spent a little bit of time in a swingers club (Le 1082) I met a few couples there who get along great with eachother. One of them is a couple who have been together for 15 years. Thier routine is, once a month they go to Le 1082, and find another couple or a guy because the wife likes DP ! Who are we to judge thier ways. If it works for them, then GREAT !!

Ever since I spent this time at Le 1082, My goal in life has been to, at least once in my life, find myself in this type of relationship. I can't be sure it would work for me, but it all seems to make so much sence to me, that I can't get it out of my system.

Sex IS FUN ! Ok, it's better with love, but it still is fun without love! ( No one in the 'hobby' can deny this ) So what is wrong with polygamy?
As long as honesty is the bottom line.


PS: By the way... for me this whole hobbying, swingers, lifestyle started after my devorce. My wife left me for this young massuse, body builder. The way I see it, she left me so she could 'scratch' the urge she had of screwing the body builder! It wasn't love. She lived with him for about 4 months.... HUMMM.... wonder how things would have turned out if we would have been in the 'swingers'' lifestyle ??!!!

 

[B1G]

I can't help it ......

I just have to continue....

If he really loved you the way a devoted partner should love you, he would feel jealousy and be extremely uncomfortable with the notion that other men are sticking their penis in you.

How about this....

If he really loved you the way a devoted partner should love you, he should be happy to see your enjoying what you do.

 

[General Gonad]

Reply to all

This thread is getting on my nerves because it misconstrues everything I ever said. Bryson kept his post even after I asked him to remove it. Regnad deleted his post and I deleted most of mine too.

>>Ronnie, I am sure you have gone through rough patches in your life and so have others. My comment was not meant to single me out by minimizing your or anyone else's problems. But some of us are living and coping with some very serious life issues that are only going to get worse. Regnad and Stripper Lover know a little more about my personal health issues and so do some SPs that I've met up with. But none of them can possibly know exactly what I am going through. Even my wife cannot really understand how I feel. I am not here for sympathy or pity. I am fighting a daily battle and the war will last for years to come. I am persistent and determined but scared to death. Here is the honest truth: I am scared to death and feel very alone in my battle.

As far as your open relationship, if you're happy good for you. I would be miserable if my significant other was SPing or swinging. Money? Yes we all need money but ask yourself is SPing the only thing you can do or is it because you have become so accustomed to a certain lifestyle and freedom that you are unwilling to give it up? If you really loved someone and it meant a lot to that person if you stopped SPing because he loved you back, wouldn't you owe it to him to do everything in your power to stop?

If I fell in love with an SP, I would support her financially. I have the means to do so and it is the right thing to do. If I didn't have the means, I would help her get a job. But I would never carry on a relationship with an SP who isn't willing to sacrifice some her income and lifestyle for me. I would never get into a relationship with an SP who is unwilling to quit this business and move on.

On this last point, I wonder how many of you ever think when will you give it all up? I am not just thinking of the older SPs that have been doing this for a long time. I know quitting is hard for clients but it must be equally hard for SPs. Put yourself in a young twenty year old's shoes, making all that cash, how the hell on earth will she go work for a salary? It isn't obvious. In my opinion, this is a negative aspect of SPing for these young ladies. Even worse, an agency owner recently told me that most of them are making a lot of money but don't have a thing to show for it.

My advice to all these young hotties who think they're invincible: you're not. On any given day, you might be diagnosed with something that will completely transform your life. You never know what could hit you and when it will hit you. Be smart with your money, write down a game plan on a piece of paper and please stick to it.

GG

 

[General Gonad]

When you make that much money so young in life, in a way to many of them lose respect for money and don't value it the way people who make a normal living do.

This applies to other fields as well. I remember how young twenty year old equity traders were acting as if stocks will keep on going up in 1999. One guy in particular was spending money like crazy and bragging how rich he is. An old veteran, who rarely speaks, stood up and told him:"...if I were you, I would shut up and start putting some of those windfall gains aside."

This young stud never listened to the old veteran. He subsequently lost tons of money when stocks tumbled and was fired in late 2001. He was leveraged to the tilt - expensive house, expensive car, trophy girlfriend, etc. When you're young, you feel like you're invincible. Unfortunately he learned his lesson the hard way but at least he still has his health.

GG

 

[naughtylady]

If you really loved someone and it meant a lot to that person if you stopped SPing because he loved you back, wouldn't you owe it to him to do everything in your power to stop?

The key words here Are "and it meant a lot to that person if you stopped SPing" if this was the case of course, I would not have started SPing in the first place. (We were together for a year and a half before I started SPing.)

If I met a married man while SPing, who wanted to leave his wife for me. (Where she had no clue about his extra-curricular activities.) I think I would have problems trusting him to be truthful with me! After all, how long was he deceiving his wife?

As it is, I am studying right now (I will finish my B.A. next year) and plan on going onto post graduate studies. I don't plan on SPing forever and I do have plans for the future.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

 

[General Gonad]

The key words here Are "and it meant a lot to that person if you stopped SPing" if this was the case of course, I would not have started SPing in the first place. (We were together for a year and a half before I started SPing.)

Ronnie,

You were together for a year and a half before you started SPing? Sorry but this is even worse than I thought. Are you supporting him financially by SPing? Please be honest about this.

If I met a married man while SPing, who wanted to leave his wife for me. (Where she had no clue about his extra-curricular activities.) I think I would have problems trusting him to be truthful with me! After all, how long was he deceiving his wife?

I agree with you here which is why I do not believe married men that proclaim they will leave their wives for an SP. I would never leave my wife for an other woman, SP or any other woman. This is the biggest mistake most men do in their lives. Also, I agree with you: how is an SP going to trust a guy who leaves his wife for her? In the back of her head, she will always wonder. You need to leave for the right reasons. You can then fall in love with a woman, including in rare cases an SP, but you need to be friends first.

As it is, I am studying right now (I will finish my B.A. next year) and plan on going onto post graduate studies. I don't plan on SPing forever and I do have plans for the future.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

Good for you, I wish you success in your future career.

GG

 

[General Gonad]

re: Item A. Haven't you learned your lesson yet about passing judgment on other people?

re: Item B. This is none of your ****** business? Do you think you're her shrink? Her priest?

Regnad,

I am not passing my judgment here but I am calling it the way I see it. I am asking myself if this guy is manipulating her. I hope I am wrong. BTW, Ronnie doesn't need you to defend her so bugger off.

GG

 

[Chuckles]

Regnad,

I am not passing my judgment here but I am calling it the way I see it. I am asking myself if this guy is manipulating her. I hope I am wrong. BTW, Ronnie doesn't need you to defend her so bugger off.

GG

For those who may have confusion and may wish to re-read previous comments to come to their own conclusions (courtesy of Merriam-Webster Online):

Main Entry: judg·ment
Variant(s): or judge·ment /'j&j-m&nt/
Function: noun
1 a : a formal utterance of an authoritative opinion b : an opinion so pronounced
2 a : a formal decision given by a court b (1) : an obligation (as a debt) created by the decree of a court (2) : a certificate evidencing such a decree
3 a capitalized : the final judging of mankind by God b : a divine sentence or decision; specifically : a calamity held to be sent by God
4 a : the process of forming an opinion or evaluation by discerning and comparing b : an opinion or estimate so formed
5 a : the capacity for judging : DISCERNMENT b : the exercise of this capacity
6 : a proposition stating something believed or asserted
synonym see SENSE

 

[General Gonad]

Again, I really hope he's not manipulating her. I will not pass judgment.

GG

 

[General Gonad]

You already have, repeatedly. Perhaps what you mean is you will not pass judgment again.

Regnad,

Which part of "bugger off" didn't you get? I truly hope this lady is happy in her "open" relationship but I expressed serious concerns that he might be manipulating her. Now, I may have been to harsh in my choice of words but if he is manipulating her for financial gain then I am concerned.

There are other things that I do pass judgment on - like men who repeatedly tell SPs that they will leave their wives for them. (not intended for anyone in particular, just the way I feel!!!)

GG

P.S. I hope this was a civil response.

 

[mrten]

Regnad,

Which part of "bugger off" didn't you get? I truly hope this lady is happy in her "open" relationship but I expressed serious concerns that he might be manipulating her. Now, I may have been to harsh in my choice of words but if he is manipulating her for financial gain then I am concerned.

There are other things that I do pass judgment on - like men who repeatedly tell SPs that they will leave their wives for them. (not intended for anyone in particular, just the way I feel!!!)

GG

P.S. I hope this was a civil response.

It's all a fantasy. "I'll leave my wife for you." "That's fine sweety, is the money all there"?
The SP being worried because he has cheated on his wife is the least of the guys problems, He's not the one "serving" countless customers per week. He's bought an emotional attachment instead of a stress relief.

 

[naughtylady]

You need not worry, nobody is manipulating me. I do not hand over my money to anybody. (OK the bank, the income tax, etc.)

Sping was my idea not his. We discussed it extensively at first. He did have a harder time with it at first than he though he would when I first started, but my getting him a red head for Christmas helped

GG>>>Once again I ask you to accept that an SP can be involved in a loving, supportive, healthy, honest relationship. I can only hope that one day you can find the same, in whatever form works for you.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

 

[General Gonad]

GG>>>Once again I ask you to accept that an SP can be involved in a loving, supportive, healthy, honest relationship. I can only hope that one day you can find the same, in whatever form works for you.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

Ronnie,

I do accept that an SP can be in a loving, supportive, healthy, honest relationship as long as she stops SPing and closes that chapter of her life. Sorry, that is what I believe but I still wish you the best with your relationship and your future career.

As for me, it isn't my relationship that is preoccupying me as much as my health. That is why I have another attitude when it comes to relationships. I think people need to have perspective in life. If I divorce, which can happen but is not really what I want, I know I can go on as long as I remain relatively healthy.

GG

 

[chef]

Ronnie,

I do accept that an SP can be in a loving, supportive, healthy, honest relationship as long as she stops SPing and closes that chapter of her life. Sorry, that is what I believe but I still wish you the best with your relationship and your future career.

...................[/U].

GG

Sorry to jump into the fray, but GG why is it so hard to believe what she is saying about her own relationship ? After all, she is the one who is living it, not you. It may not work for you, but it does for her. We all have different norms, and one is not more acceptable than the other. Trouble arises when we try to live according to someone else's standards.

 

[naughtylady]

regnad and chefplus>>>> you said it before I could.

gg>>>>So in other words, without ever having met either of us, you are capable of judging my relationship as unhealthy? You cannot accept that the possibility that I am in a good relationship? Well I am, and I am not the only one to think so. My friends approve him too; even my mom likes him.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

 

[General Gonad]

gg>>>>So in other words, without ever having met either of us, you are capable of judging my relationship as unhealthy? You cannot accept that the possibility that I am in a good relationship? Well I am, and I am not the only one to think so. My friends approve him too; even my mom likes him.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

Ronnie,

If you're both happy, good for you. If you're the rare exception, then you're lucky. I wouldn't be able to handle such an open relationship knowing that the woman I love is having sex with strangers on a regular basis. It would eat me up inside and render me insane. That is me. I am not passing judgment on you despite what Lord Regnad or others think.

GG

P.S. I guess I am a narrow-minded jerk who has intense difficulties understanding how someone can SP and at the same time have a loving relationship with someone they truly love. I do apologize if I offended you in any way.

 

[MakeIt]

GG

Maybe I'm missing something here, but consider the alternatives for Ronnie to be an SP and in a relatonship. She has 2 other choices. First, she could be an SP and not tell her BF (forget the practical aspect of such a relationship) - this would be like anyone else in a relationship who is seeing and SP. However, this is not an acceptable situation for Ronnie as she requires honesty. Second alternative is her BF knows about her SPing but she refuses to allow him to see other women. This would be highly hypocritical of her and would likely encourage the BF to carry on behind her back. Again, this would be difficult to accept. If my logic hasn't failed me, all that's left is to have an open relationship. I suppose there is a fourth alternatie which is to get out of the SP business but that a different discussion.

 

[General Gonad]

Option #4

I suppose there is a fourth alternative which is to get out of the SP business but that a different discussion.

I agree with your logic but all I am saying is that if it was me, I wouldn't be able to know that the woman I love is regularly sleeping with other men. So I guess I would ask for the fourth alternative. This isn't a "business" like any other business. There are human emotions involved. I just do not see how you can easily separate "SPing" from your personal relationship with your boyfriend.

I don't know...maybe I am from the dark ages to think this way. All I can share with you is that when I sleep with an SP, I never sleep with another the same day and I sure as hell NEVER sleep with my wife the same day. I wouldn't feel right about it. But then again, I don't want to "wallow in guilt again."

GG