Laws in Canada

[Aussie]

i couldnt find a thread on this but have seen multiple conflicting infos on the web. what is the law in quebec concerning masage parlours and hjs? and if u get busted in a mp getting fs, is it a fine, jail time, or a criminal record?

>>> EDITED BY MOD 11: Title changed from "Quebec" to "Canada", to avoid confusion, since prostitution is under federal jurisdiction and, in this case, the same laws applies all over Canada. <<<

 

[mellonhead]

Make sure your signage is in French and that you make a contribution to the Precinct Commander's retirement fund and you should be fine.

 

[Mod 11]

Prostitution is 100% legal anywhere in Canada. Incalls are illegal because the room used for incall become a bawdy house. In that case, the act of prostitution is still legal, what's illegal is the use of the room for prostitution on a regular base, by a prostitute. Also illegal is public solicitation and for a pimp to live of the prostitute's earnings. Outcalls are 100% legal, as long as nothing else illegal is involved.

For massage parlors, real massage places are legal, of course. Places where you can get a HJ are tolerated because a previous judgment (in Ontario?) said it wasn't prostitution. As soon as more than a HJ is provided, the same as for incalls applies, it become a bawdy house. Will it get busted and when? Nobody know. Add to this all the municipal by-laws and it's as 10-4 said.

All that said, I'm no lawyer, just an informed hobbyist. I might be wright, maybe not. Nobody should use what I wrote and go bragging at a cop who's busting their favorite MP/incall place. In doubt, ask a real lawyer who specialize in that kind of stuff.

 

[duetoday]

And more,you cannot sollicit in public:is newspaper,internet ,public or private?How about conversation on a land line as opposed to a cell phone?How about agreement for sex versus money made by a third party,receptionist,boyfriend,agent?It is much trickier than it looks...

 

[Bat Crusader]

As far as HJ in massage parlors, the judge in Ontario said: "The payment of money was for a full-body massage. The act of masturbation was optional, at no additional fee..."...

thats why we give them a "tip" and not a fee On top of the paiement for the full body massage.

 

[duetoday]

I suppose those places "declare" their employees to Revenu Canada and they also have unemployment insurance,workman's comp and all...
Considering many of the ladies we meet in those places have either no work visas (chinese,russian,mexican,...) or are on welfare,i wonder how harder it is for them to recruit.

 

[Aussie]

thanks for the info eveyone. i seem to remembber reading that u cant even be caught in a 'bawdy house'. does anyone have any info on this?

 

[Mod 11]

thanks for the info eveyone. i seem to remembber reading that u cant even be caught in a 'bawdy house'. does anyone have any info on this?

Of course you can! You just don't want to be caught in one... Seriously, if you're there during a bust, you better have a good explanation if you don't feel like dealing with the law...

 

[gugu]

What ever will be said or write here or on internet will be "obsolete" because of the new law enforcement stating that keeping (and be in) a bawdy house is now a "serious offence".
https://merb.cc/vbulletin//showthread.php?61109-Criminal-code-changes-by-the-Feds.&highlight=feds
What does that really mean in application ? Let me just say , TOFT is not in my plan .

Roger, you should be more carefull with what you write on legal stuff. What you say is just not true. It is going to be a serious offence ONLY for criminal organizations. If you are in the bawdy house as a client, it will not change anything for you. The "new law" is tougher for the organized crime, not the sp nor the client.

 

[Aussie]

ummmm

so, if i'm with a masseuse, getting a HJ in a parlor that is deemed a bawdy house, and the police come in, am i in trouble?

 

[gugu]

At the moment there will be 3 persons it will be consider a gang , so , the receptionnist , the masseuse and you. BINGO ! you are 3.

Next...

Absolutely false! It takes more than that to be considered a gang.

Next...

 

[gugu]

Anyone of us here can't say how the Court will interprete the new definitions of "serious offence" if the Crown and the law enforcement agencies can make the case. One thing we do know for sure is that we are playing on a very thin line. Future will tell. By the mean time, have fun and hobby safely.

You were not talking about the definitions of the "serious offence". You were talking about the definition of a criminal organization. You said:

At the moment there will be 3 persons it will be consider a gang , so , the receptionnist, the masseuse and you. BINGO ! you are 3.

You omitted the second important part of the definition:

“The Criminal Code (subsection 467.1(1)) defines "criminal organization" to mean a group, however organized, that:

is composed of three or more persons in or outside Canada; and

has as one of its main purposes or main activities the facilitation or commission of one or more serious offences that, if committed, would likely result in the direct or indirect receipt of a material benefit, including a financial benefit, by the group or by any of the persons who constitute the group.”


A criminal organization commits “serious offences”. A serious offence is not something interpreted by the Court. A serious offence is simply an offence punishable by 5 years or more of imprisonment. Crimes in regards of prostitution are not serious offences (except, thank God, living on the avails of a minor), however the judges may interpret them. There is NO new definitions of a serious offence in the new regulation, neither a new definition of what a criminal organization is. The new regulation simply stipulates that a series of 11 crimes that are not serious offences will become serious offences IF committed by a criminal organization.

Now, suppose you owe a massage parlor with two other guys. You are all respectful citizens, linked in no way to a criminal organization. You get busted because some people complain that some girls provide prostitution services in your “salon”. Suppose that the police has gathered sufficient evidence and that the Crown succeeds in having you condemned under 210 (operating a brothel) Does that make you a criminal organization from now on? NO! You have just committed a crime that is not a defined as a serious offence. IT REMAINS THE SAME. If the Crown wants the judge to convict you of a serious offence, it will HAVE TO prove otherwise that you are a criminal organization.

Read carefully the backgrounder provided by the Department of Justice Canada: http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/news-nouv/nr-cp/2010/doc_32532.html

“Anyone of us here can't say how the Court…” will render justice, but anyone with a bit a reading ability can certainly see that the Court has no ground, whatsoever, in the new regulation, to consider a party of three consisting of a client, a receptionist and a sex worker as a criminal organization just because they were found in a bawdy house.

 

[gugu]

ummmm

so, if i'm with a masseuse, getting a HJ in a parlor that is deemed a bawdy house, and the police come in, am i in trouble?

Yes. If you are intolerant to risk, stay with the massage parlors well reviewed here and where there seems to be less extras. They are very easy to find in Québec City: they are the ones where you pay the total amount (usually around 90$ for one hour) at the entrance.

 

[duetoday]

Note: "found in a bawdy house"the crime commited by anyone being there and "knowing" what is happening; "Keeping a bawdy house" running it .A gang are the 3 or more people(owner,manager,x number of masseuses...)that plots to commit a serious offence(keeping a bawdy house)for financial gain...They will not have to prove it is a serious offence,it will be one,but prove that you are a criminal organization,not easy,i agree.Now the weakness of this for prosecution is "what is prostitution?"
“Two definitions of prostitution are as follows: - the offering of the body to indiscriminate lewdness for hire as per the Oxford dictionary, (3d) 1973,
or in the words of the Ontario Court of Appeal in R. v. DiPaola:

“The word involves the offering of a person’s body for the purpose of sexual intercourse or other sexual gratification in return for payment”.”

 

[gugu]

Therefore , for most of us here nothing is changed , it's business as usual

Exactly. Ça a pris du temps, mais t'as fini par comprendre.[/QUOTE]

, all this is only a smoke show .

It is mainly an electoral show choregraphed on this precise music:

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/32940/canadians_want_action_to_deal_with_gangs.

But if it really helps fighting criminal organizations, it's a good show.

 

[gugu]

Roger,

maybe you should also be more prudent on two other statements:

I do not want to start a controversy, as a real lawyer would be in better position to answer properly, but OUTCALLS can be considered legal IF they are INDEPENDENTS.

False! If the place is used regularly for prostitution, it is considered a bawdy house. It has nothing to do with the fact that the sp is independent or not. It is tolerated in most cases, but certainly not considered legal.

Escort agencies lives from the fruits of prostitution.

We all know this is a fact. But they don't in the legal sense. What they do officially, is selling services (booking, publicity, etc.) to independent workers exercising a perfectly legal trade.

 

[Bat Crusader]

Yes. If you are intolerant to risk, stay with the massage parlors well reviewed here and where there seems to be less extras. They are very easy to find in Québec City: they are the ones where you pay the total amount (usually around 90$ for one hour) at the entrance.

How about a place like tony's where you pay 150$-200$ at the entrance for your "massage"?

 

[duetoday]

Let's get real,nobody forces anyone to go work there...There is plently of jobs everywhere else in all spheres...They choose to do this for the $$$.

 

[Morris]

i couldnt find a thread on this but have seen multiple conflicting infos on the web. what is the law in quebec concerning masage parlours and hjs? and if u get busted in a mp getting fs, is it a fine, jail time, or a criminal record?

>>> EDITED BY MOD 11: Title changed from "Quebec" to "Canada", to avoid confusion, since prostitution is under federal jurisdiction and, in this case, the same laws applies all over Canada. <<<

From what I heard, the girl gets a fine for first offence and jail if she had had previous infractions of the same law. The client gets a fine.

 

[gugu]

From what I heard, the girl gets a fine for first offence and jail if she had had previous infractions of the same law. The client gets a fine.

I don't think it is the case.

If you get caught in a bust in a bawdy house as a client, the police will let you go under the promise to appear before a court later. If this happens and the charges are not abandoned, you will need a lawer. The judge may find you guilty or not under the article 210 of the criminal code (being in a bawdy house). If you are found guilty, and you have no previous record, the lawer will ask, granted in most cases, for an unconditional absolution. There will be no fine in such case, nor any criminal record. The judge may choose to give a conditional absolution (usually a payment to a charity organization). There will be no criminal record in such a case either. There is no absolute guaranty to it, but this is what happens most often for a first accusation as a client. You will spent some money for your lawer but, believe me, it will be money well spent not to get a criminal record.