Efforts in Washington DC to Decriminalized Sex Work

[ShyMan]

Will Washington DC succeed in decriminalizing sex work?

If DC is allowed to do so, will Johns in NYC make the trip to DC to see sex workers? I'd rather go to TO and Montreal for escorts.

If DC succeeds, perhaps other states in the US will enact the same laws to protect sex workers and sex buyers--maybe. That's what they said about cannabis years ago and now many states have legalized cannabis sale for recreational use. I wounder if the US Federal Government would do to sex trade in DC what it has been doing to the cannabis industry -- make it impossible for cannabis businesses to use the US banking system and other roadblocks.

WP is reporting the following:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...81190e-ca7e-11e9-a4f3-c081a126de70_story.html


"If that bill is enacted, the District will be the only jurisdiction in the United States other than some areas of Nevada, which has about 20 legal brothels, to decriminalize prostitution.
Under the D.C. law, prostitutes (or sex workers) would not be prosecuted for their sale of sex. The law would also give a pass to men out to buy sex from people lured into “the life” — a term I heard during a Tuesday meeting with a survivor who described the sex trade she engaged in years ago along the main drag of 14th Street NW in Columbia Heights."

"Nadeau, one of the bill’s co-sponsors, reflected the spirit of that approach when she said, “We have to be making sure we’re looking after our constituents. Those who engage in sex work are our constituents. Let’s make sure that people engaged in sex work are being fully supported.”
The bill decriminalizes brothels where no one benefits economically for the use of home, apartment or dwelling place. And that means that Nadeau’s “constituents” and their johns, or buyers, can openly operate a retail sex business in homes, hotels, health clubs and hangouts. (The bill leaves untouched the criminal prohibition against “selling” space to operate a house of prostitution.)"

 

[ShyMan]

^^^^^^^^ Thank you for your insightful perspectives, Patron.

 

[hungry101]

Patron

Who is Yasmin Vafa and what is her backstory? She is dead set against any decriminalization.
Where is she finding all these 12-15 year old girls that she claims are being pimped out?

A few years ago Fox News Rama story with some very unattractive women (obese and ugly) that claimed they were former sex workers of Atlanta that escaped the system. They said that girls in the thousands as young as 14, start out as dancers and move to escorting blah blah blah...I started a thread on on TER (because I thought it was crap) and a few of the escorts that were former dancers chimed in “Shanannigins!” Every girl dancing had to have a license which was on the wall in the managers office. The hobbyists joined in and said something like “we would know a 14 year old when we see one ....”
I would like to see her data. There are so many NGOs based on bullshit. Their job is to scare you into opening you wallets to combat evil. I haven’t heard of her.

 

[Valcazar]

I agree with Patron that the Epstein case flaring up again has probably derailed any sensible push for decrim in the near term.
I disagree the Federal government would overrule a DC law about this, though. I think it would go more like Nevada where they basically leave it alone. However, they could still use sex trafficking laws to swoop in when they wanted. (As with marijuana, the Fed never gave up their rights to arrest people in legal weed states.)

As far as "does that world described exist"? Of course it does. Both sides of the decrim debate tend to act as if sex work is all one sort of thing because it is a good rhetorical tactic. (And, I am sure, some people just think that the part they know is the only thing.) There are people who are absolutely trafficked and absued. There are people who are independent and enjoy what they do.

The decrim argument is that the abuse isn't inherent to the concept, so decriminalizing it opens up the door for sensible targeting of the abuse and protection against it. The abolitionist model is that there is no way the system doesn't constantly drift back to abuse, so the small number of people are ok with it doesn't make up for the huge amount of damage.

Obviously, I fall on the decrim side of things, but the fact is that just about all the studies in the field are shit and pretty obviously so if you start looking at methodolgy and author bias.

Still, I do expect to see a major city passing a decrim law sometime in the next decade or so. There has been a general trend towards less stigma, although I still expect the US to be stuck with a Nordic model if anything big happens on a state or federal level.

 

[ShyMan]

Still, I do expect to see a major city passing a decrim law sometime in the next decade or so.

I think that may happen too.

Imagine a day when an adult lady (18+ years old) in any place in North America could engage in sex work to supplement her income, like certain people do as an Uber driver. Or she does sex work because she loves sex.

 

[EagerBeaver]

ShyMan,

It’s already happening on Seeking Arrangement and there is some overlap between these areas. One could argue that the popularity of SA reduces the quality and the quantity of the supply of workers for this business model. Decriminalization may simply result in a diluted quality work force, staffing the low end of the industry.

 

[CLOUD 500]

Patron,

What I would like to see are extras stripclubs and FKK clubs. The whole booking an escort is too business to my liking it is like ordering pizza. So yes I prefer legalization. US escorts got very strict screening procedures again not to my liking obviously due to LE. Legalization is better for everyone. I also noticed how prices for escorts are so high. I would skip the US all together as a hobby destination. More fun to be had at Dominican Republic or Brazil.

 

[CLOUD 500]

Patron,

I noticed that politicians are doing their max to make it all go underground. Sugar Babies and expensive underground escorts not only make it very inhospitable to most johns except the wealthy ones, they remain hidden out of plain site. Unless legalization happens it will all go underground which is why I said I prefer legalization. Stripclubs like streetwalkers are in plain site.

 

[CLOUD 500]

Patron,

Agreed which is why the US is off for me. The conservative movement is strong there and it will never stop maybe after a hundred years. The conservative movement began in the late 19th century and really gained momentum during the early 20th century. I do not think American society is ready for legalized prostitution, most Americans are prudes and the Christianity has a strong place in American society. But one can hope that the country can progress and move forward and away from social conservatism.

 

[Valcazar]

You guys are tossing around legalized and decrim like it is the same thing.

Decrim may or may not result in more streetwalkers (I'm not sure what the evidence shows in New Zealand.) I don't know why decrim would include zoning, I would assume not. Strip clubs won't be able to open in places where they are zoned against and that's fine. Street walkers would probably be treated the same as people selling stuff on the sidewalk - its not allowed in most areas.

The US is pretty schizoid about sex, and people tend not to like it as in your face, but as Patron points out, decrim is mostly about not letting police target the poorest people unfairly which does have a constituency. (Yes, a lot of the US wants the police to "be tough", but it always depends on making sure they are tough on "those people".)

Just about every aspect of sex work being in your face and therefore annoying people can be dealt with in a non-criminal fashion. Zoning covers some things; street vending has licensing; the more discreet stuff simply doesn't become a problem.

 

[Valcazar]

I don't know if everything in public becomes criminal - you can have laws controlling things that aren't really criminalizing it. But that does seem the sort of equilibrium that would work. FOSTA/SESTA needs to be pulled off the books though. I'm not sure where the political will for that will come from. I suspect the attack on that will come from tech companies upset about the liability rules - someone will have to propose a "better approach to targeting trafficking" that has fewer broad side effects. Sadly, I don't see anyone spending political capital on that in the near future.

 

[ShyMan]

I think in countries where sex work is decriminalized, platforms like Seeking would see its paying membership decline significantly.

I gave up on Seeking -- I was catching mostly dead fishes.

Patron, Valcazar and others on this Board should be solicited for their insights by real independent think thanks to conduct research on the adult sex work industries in many countries. The UN talk shit about the issues, bringing up mostly exploitation of minors (people under 18 years old, for example), but does nothing -- isn't UN's mandate to help make working conditions around the world more humane.

I imagine in DC, 3 out 10 (federal) politicians, of all stripes and gender, pay for sex; most of the congressional staffers and members work there away from their families. Maybe the DC bill will become law, bringing joy to all politicians (and their staffers) who work there.

 

[Element 115]

With all the Harvey Weinstein, and Jeffrey Epstein crap going on I doubt that the Gov. will decriminalized sex work anytime soon.

 

[rumraycer]

My belief is that decriminalization in the USA will eventually occur - but it may be a long time coming - perhaps 10 to 20 years. It appears that people's attitudes are slowly changing and as younger people step up into power positions, we will see decriminalization attempted in one or more states - and then it will be interesting to watch the results, which will make or break decriminalization efforts in other states. Religious organizations are on a gradual downswing as more and more people fail to see value in their participation therein...thus their moral influence will weaken over time.

 

[jalimon]

With all the Harvey Weinstein, and Jeffrey Epstein crap going on I doubt that the Gov. will decriminalized sex work anytime soon.

You i see the opposite effect. Those pigs might help generalized the idea that sex should be available to a wider range of people..

 

[Valcazar]

Rumraycer, you never know. I doubt it, but you never know. I think that a higher percentage of women become more anti sex work as they get older, so that is as much of a battle as it is with religious organizations that are in decline.

I'd say I've seen the opposite trend. I know that anti-sexwork views are more common in the older population, but I don't know that people become more anti sexwork as they get older. It seems more linked to the political environment they had when they grew up.

 

[Valcazar]

Another real option that isn’t as sexy as decriminalization is just to reduce the penalty structure.

I agree with this. I think we both generally agree that prison sentences i the US are too high overall.

There are a myriad of zoning, licensing and tax collection issues with decriminalization.

Not that many. If it is decrminalized and not legalized, there are fewer regulation issues.

The better legislative approach is to simply neuter the over-aggressive cops (and their anti-sex legislative masters) by making prostitution the lowest possible misdemeanor if no public solicitation, coercion, or underaged parties are involved. Cops don’t go after jaywalkers in the U.S. even though jaywalking is very common, because Jaywalking is such a minor crime.

That is basically the decrim approach. It wouldn't even be a misdimeanor. An infraction at best, like jaywalking. (But really it just shouldn't be a crime, like jaywalking in the UK.)

 

[Samantha Jones]

we only really need decrim.

 

[Valcazar]

I agree. I've found the arguments for legalization less and less persuasive over time.
Decrim seems clearly the better choice.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Although i agree with decriminalization, there should be an exception for Honey Traps set by foreign governments where the consideration for sex is political or military intelligence or information rather than cash. The Maria Butina case should have taught lawmakers that this is way too easy and if an average looking woman can pull this off, just imagine how easily a really stunning and equally educated "Sparrow" can extract name your secret from politicians and special interest groups:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Butina

Butina was targeting Republicans and right wing special interest groups and her ability to compromise them was WAY too easy. The Chinese MSS is much more aggressive in using honey traps and Jason Matthews' last book in the Red Sparrow trilogy, The Kremlin's Candidate, provides a grave wake up call on the possibilities at play here. The USA is much more vulnerable to this type of activity because they are doing to us what we are not doing to them in return. Butina should have gotten more than 1.5 years and would have if charged separately, although she is apparently a cooperating witness in a fraud case against one of the Republican operatives whose cock she sucked in return for info on his frauds as well as political deal secrets and agenda pushing.

Politicians are elected to serve the interests of their constituents, not those of foreign concubines who are pushing the agendas of corrupt officials in foreign governments.