Long term arrangements

[Fradi]

I am like STN I try to stay away from this thread as the only reason I can see for it is in the US to get around LE.
I agree that anybody who thinks paying a young university student for sex and thinking he has game is just as delusional as the student who thinks she is not a prostitute.
They somehow think they are different and better than a John and a prostitute, to me it is calling a donkey an ass.
I neither have the time nor the patience nor would I want to play these kind of games.

 

[jalimon]

Fradi, STN by "having a game" I do not think they refer to actually knowing how to play the game to score girl. I think they mean what to do and how to act in order to score SA girl that otherwise would have rejected you. Most of SA girl are not escort. They want to handpick their client and money is often not the first factor. So yes you do need to "have a game" in order to score the best one without breaking the bank and making it last. I know I gave up on SA because it's too complicated

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

Just copied from above.
If you look back at life in retrospect, and most of us wish we knew then what we know now, the girls in high school who didn’t do the “Valley Girl clique” or the Sorority Pledging were just as hot, and a hell of a lot nicer people, than those who did.

These were the girls I knew, loved camping and fishing, not clicky, real people and yes, quite good looking who enjoyed sex.
In my days the men held doors open and paid for dinner also.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Eager Beaver, if I had more time, I would be willing to play the game in the way the undergrad wanted and that you seem to espouse or enjoy. But I don’t have that time, nor am I interested in doing it that way. Not sure why you qualify my mentality as “loser”... I think that I have had great success in doing things in a way that both me and the girl feel super comfortable, which paved the way to great sex, with the extra GfE illusion that you mentioned. I just don’t have time for a “courtship “. With the ballerina,, we met for drinks with no money exchanged and no guarantees. We hit it off, came to a financial agreement, and then went straight to her place for 3 or 4 hours of really fun intimacy.
To each his/her own

Dasein, I totally understand your point of view. And you are right - the single biggest problem with playing the SA game is that it's a huge investment of time, and many guys (including most of my married friends) simply do not have enough of it. What I meant by a loser mentality was the actual statements you made in the prior post- they can be fatal to an attempted arrangement. I don't think you are a loser, but when you make statements like that with a woman, or similar words, she will smell that. A lot of guys don't understand that while escorts are a guaranteed score, most SBs on SA are not. Even if you can invest the time, and go on multiple dates, the success rate isn't 100% like it is with escorts. Sometimes, you get a second date but not a third. I have even had a 3rd but not a 4th. I made mistakes. It happened to me with one girl, who I tried to kiss on the second date. Never got a third date with her, but I made other mistakes with her as well.

Anyway, the aspect I like about SA shows that I am wired a little differently than most. These other guys posting recently, for them, women are mere receptacles for their semen, and it's best that the job of finding a new home for their semen is done as quickly and as cost effectively as possible. They don't give a rat's fucking ass what comes before, as long as it is gotten over with quick and they don't have to pay much for the job. I am not wired like that. I like the flirtation and courtship attendant to the dating process, and everything that comes before the sex. I like the social science and experimentation. The sex is not guaranteed with a SB. As I mentioned in my prior post, you have to earn it. The girls are not pros, or semi pros- most of them anyway. They are just regular college students needing extra money and not minding banging an older guy. But most of them have standards, and you have got to prove you meet them. To me, that whole process is interesting, adventurous, and depending on the girl, it can be quite challenging. I like the challenge and strategy as much as the semen transplantation process. That's what differentiates me. I am wired different.

 

[Dasein]

Eager Beaver -- thanks for clarifying. I agree -- I would never be so blunt with a potential SB as I was in my post! However, the girls that I have seen have appreciated that I do not want to waste their time and that I expect the same from them. Most have explicitly told me that. But what I have found is that on Secret Benefits, there are lots of girls looking for different things. Some really just want financial support in exchange for a platonic relationship. Others use the platform like an escort would. Personally, what turns me on is something in the middle. I want to meet their standards, but I don't want the hassles of a courtship.

And I totally get it that we are wired differently. I still very much enjoy seeing escorts! But I have never wanted to go on a dinner date with one. I prefer spending my time and money catching up with a good friend over a nice bottle of wine and a good meal. But I love the intimacy (not just physical) that 2 hours with an escort that I can connect with provides.

 

[vtp246]

In 2019 I mostly stopped seeing SW to move to SB on seeking, I found out that in terms of cost it’s a lot cheaper to have an SB because they are usually not time centric, more PPM than PPH. However being quite a young hobbyist, getting in SB was becoming a bit confusing from a relationship standpoint, friend, buddy, $ friend, lover? Went through it all depending on what the girl was looking for. I’m going back to SW because they are generally more structured, they know what they want and there’s no ambiguity.

 

[R the Man]

After a long history of loving the GFE escort scene here in Montreal, I thought I'd try Secret Arrangements, because I recently had great experiences with similar SB sites when I travelled in Jakarta and Bangkok. The girls I saw there were definitely semi-pros, more cute and natural than escorts, and the service level was as good or better. And it was fun with the flirty texts back and forth before the visit.

I've been on SA for 2 weeks, and it's been great. Most girls have shared photos with me and I have been messaging at least a dozen girls off the site, and have agreements to meet them when I visit Montreal again in a couple of weeks. It's just a matter of deciding how many to see, since I can't see them all, so it's a matter of GND but really friendly texting, or DDG but a little less outgoing by text. I ask for a selfie so that I don't just go on the glam photos that they use on the site. I've ruled out a few because the selfies are not as attractive as the site photos. I may try to meet 5 or 6 girls in the 3 days I'm there to try them out and see if any are worth a regular visit during my Montreal trips.

I've been open and direct about the arrangements with them (I wouldn't put up with a platonic first date). All of them have agreed to dates with "intimacy" (that's the SA code for sex) on a pay per meeting basis, basically for what it costs for an indy escort. Maybe I'm just good at this, but they all seem legit and enthusiastic. I'll report back how it goes after my visit, and whether they all show up or ghost me as others have reported.

 

[theyellowman]

In 2019 I mostly stopped seeing SW to move to SB on seeking, I found out that in terms of cost it’s a lot cheaper to have an SB because they are usually not time centric, more PPM than PPH. However being quite a young hobbyist, getting in SB was becoming a bit confusing from a relationship standpoint, friend, buddy, $ friend, lover? Went through it all depending on what the girl was looking for. I’m going back to SW because they are generally more structured, they know what they want and there’s no ambiguity.

It could be cheaper for someone who use to see SP more than 2x/month or dinner date session . I stopped seeing SP and switch to SB more than a year now . I like the companionship and no rush session..! But exactly like Vtp mentioned, be clear in your head...no confusion in this type of relationship. It must be a NSA relationship or a friend with benefits ..!

 

[jjjeannn16]

Very interesting thread. Took me a while to go through :fat:
I’m thinking of giving SB a try and I have question for you guys. In a per meeting basis, would you still pay for the social event ( if any before/after intimacy). I don’t wanna sound cheap but I just don’t wanna get scammed neither
Thanks in advance forgive advices

 

[CaptRenault]

. In a per meeting basis, would you still pay for the social event ( if any before/after intimacy). I don’t wanna sound cheap...

You might sound cheap, but it's not clear. Are you asking whether you would pay for the girl's meal and drinks if you go out to lunch or dinner before a pay-per-meeting encounter?

If so, then the answer is yes, of course you would pay for any routine date expenses. You can't ask the girl to split the check!

The pay-per-meeting amount covers only the girl's time (and intimate acts that happen during that time). How much time? That's up to you and the girl.

But you want to avoid being too specific. If you start negotiating an hourly rate, then you're talking with an escort and not a sugar baby. If you notice that the girl is clock-watching or asking for more money because she stayed X number of hours and she thought it would only be X-1 hours, then she needs to advertise herself as an escort and not a SB and you need to find another SB.

If you are uncomfortable with this kind of ambiguity, then you should stick to escorts and not go the SB route.

 

[jjjeannn16]

Thanks for your answer Renault. That much more clear to me now.

 

[R the Man]

created a profile just for hell of it. Pretty sure I have no intention of becoming a paying member (seems u need to be one to contact girls). But i can see profiles....i see several former and current SPs

How many profiles on Seeking.com do you think are SPs? Of the 8 that I've been chatting to and arranged a meet, there was only 1 that I thought might be an SP, and interestingly she bailed on me the morning of the meet, saying she had a cold. There was 1 who was TGTBT based on photos that she sent, and she bailed on me a couple of days before with a lame excuse.

I will be posting reviews of my Sugar Baby trip experience in a few days, when I'm done. The teaser? - some good, some not so good experiences.

 

[hungry101]

^^^ It will be an interesting read for sure. I am seeing some nice escorts on Twitter for 400$/hour. I think that a lot of escorting has gone over to Twitter and I think an SB/SD arrangement has become a way to legitimize the hobby. We have lost some prominent posters such at Delta123 and Rumples to SD/SB arrangements. Capt Renault has had some great experiences. I am ready to learn more.

 

[EagerBeaver]

A lot of girls will say no sex on first date, because they want to see if you are creepy or make them uncomfortable. Usually you can pay $100 for the so called screening dates and $300-$400 for sexual dates (the code is "intimate" dates, never use the word sex or sexual on there) also including dinner.

In my experience it's less than 5% of the women on there that are pros, and the ones who are give themselves away with escort like photography and, as JackFranz astutely mentioned, the "honey" or 'babe" greetings on initial messaging.

Don't you guys do targeted searches?????????? My basic saved search is 18-25, all races, slim and athletic, and newer registrations listed first because the newest are usually the easiest to get dates with. If you are not narrowing your searches properly you may end up seeing more pros. In my searches I see almost none and the ones I do see it's pretty clearcut because they are marketing themselves as a PPM experience, whereas most of the other ladies on SA don't know what kind of arrangements they want or are open to and need to be schmoozed into choosing one.

 

[chowzilla]

yup i've been scammed before like that..

At first I would say to stay away from girls who ask for $ for first meets, as very often its either a scam or a very superficial relationship. However what I've been doing is offering them a nice dinner instead, so at least we both can indulge lol. Doesn't always work but when it does, you're closer to finding something

 

[EagerBeaver]

EB, I guess 300-400 is the usual amount in the US? When I was in Toronto most girls I talk to (18-29, slim, above GND looking) would at least ask 400 cad, a few stopped talking to me when I offered 450.

$400 is the more common price point, but as I have said countless times, when you search on newer and younger who have no experience, you get girls who do not really fully know what their value is. If you don't do targeted searches and end up messaging with savvy and more experienced SBs, they will seek more. If you want to get the most out of SA, look at it as a game and play the game correctly. That starts with doing targeted searches. After the initial messaging make an offer you are comfortable with and if it is not accepted move on. I target hotter women and the hotter ones are more likely to bite if you offer something for an initial meetup besides dinner. And if you hit it off and she is comfortable with you then you can propose an intimate date. The Chowzilla method of just offering dinner can work, but only with the newer and younger of the hot ones, or the not so hot and older ones who are not seeing much action. I am only messaging girls I consider extremely hot and not ones who I think will easily spread their legs.

 

[ShyMan]

Best scenario for me would be to meet someone and have dinner with them ( only for the cost of a dinner ) then call an agency for sex after. ( myself I prefer sex first and dinner after because who likes to fuck on a full stomach ).

That's a win-win scenario :clap2:

Hehe. Same here. I usually get sleepy after a meal. I rather take a nap.

I'm on "free" membership status on SA. I deleted my profile except a photo. And I get "favorite" especially from supposed chicks from Venezuela. :noidea:

Ah, as EB said it's a game. I prefer the Montreal agency model.

I imagine there will be more wannabe SB's during the COVID-19 crisis.

 

[R the Man]

$400 is the more common price point, but as I have said countless times, when you search on newer and younger who have no experience, you get girls who do not really fully know what their value is. If you don't do targeted searches and end up messaging with savvy and more experienced SBs, they will seek more. If you want to get the most out of SA, look at it as a game and play the game correctly. That starts with doing targeted searches. After the initial messaging make an offer you are comfortable with and if it is not accepted move on. I target hotter women and the hotter ones are more likely to bite if you offer something for an initial meetup besides dinner. And if you hit it off and she is comfortable with you then you can propose an intimate date. The Chowzilla method of just offering dinner can work, but only with the newer and younger of the hot ones, or the not so hot and older ones who are not seeing much action. I am only messaging girls I consider extremely hot and not ones who I think will easily spread their legs.

I agree with EagerBeaver and essentially use his method except that because I am only here briefly (and I tell them that), I always make sure that the meet and greet (with a smaller $ amount) is followed by an intimate session (with a larger $ amount). No way would I do dinner only - I don't want to waste that time with someone I want to fuck.

 

[R the Man]

As promised, I wanted to let you guys know about my first experience with Sugar Babies via Seeking Arrangements at seeking.com

This will be in several posts instead of one long one.

First, about me. I am a regular visitor to Montreal from the wet coast. I’m an older and experienced worldwide pooner but new to the SD/SB world. I crave variety, in the hobby for sex and not emotional attachment (I get plenty of that in my real life), and I am mostly interested in young (18-25) petite GFE spinners with natural tits, at least B sized. I like girls with a natural look instead of a porn star look. A pretty face is also important, although pretty GND is perfectly adequate for me. I always said that Montreal was paradise for my type – the agencies are terrific and I’ve had very good experiences with the girls recommended. I rarely book Indys. I have discretionary income so lowest pricing is not a concern for me. I’m also pretty comfortable talking to girls, keeping them interested, and being respectful while flirting.

I began to be interested in SB when I started using similar dating type apps (Badoo, ThaiFriendly) when I was visiting Jakarta, Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur on business trips in recent months. I had a great experience – the girls I met up with were all semi-pros, and were at least as attractive and with as good sex service as the escorts and bar girls that I saw. It was fun chatting and flirting before the meet, and the sex was much more like being with a girlfriend than a pro.
Based on those good experiences, I first tried Secret Benefits but wasn’t impressed. Then I switched to Seeking Arrangements…

/cont’d 2

 

[R the Man]

My experience with sugar babies at seeking.com /2

I was on paid SA for about 3 weeks before my Montreal trip. It was great! I connected/messaged with at least 20 girls and seriously considered at least a dozen of them who agreed to meet with me.

Here are some lessons I can pass on:

1. Set up a filter for searches. Mine included Age (18-30), Body type (Slim/Athletic/Average), Don’t Show Members Seeking (Platonic, Marriage-Minded, etc), etc. Saves you from looking at profiles that aren’t your type.

2. It’s pretty easy to tell who are escorts, pros and scammers, generally. Their profiles are short, they are usually a bit direct and crass (e.g., Don’t message me if you ain’t got money to spend on me), and their photos are TGTBT.

3. You are notified when girls view your profile or “Favourite” you. Many girls “Favourite” you, often without even viewing your profile. I did not find ANY of my shortlisted girls from these girls who Favourited me, or even messaged any of them. Often they are from places like Venezuela or Manila, but even the girls from Montreal were usually not my type, or were pros, or scammers.

4. SA doesn’t allow direct talk about ppm, money for sex, or anything like that. As soon as a girl seemed interested or made a connection via messaging, I suggested moving the conversation over to WhatsApp to talk about expectations and details for a meeting.

5. I don’t have time or interest in having a platonic first “meet and greet” date. Having dinner with a girl that I want to fuck is a no go for me. I make it clear that I want an “intimate” first date (that’s SA code for sex, you aren’t supposed to be mentioning sex in messages). But, I offer a cash gift for a glass of wine meet at my hotel bar, followed by larger gift if we decide to go up to my room. That way, the financial arrangements are clear and she knows I’m serious.

6. I had them all send me selfies (not sexy ones, most wouldn’t do that before meeting, understandable) so I could see “natural” photos and not the glam shots they had on their profiles. I ruled out a couple of girls because their selfies were way less attractive than their profile photos.

/cont’d 3