MASS SHOOTING/USA

[Vardhan945]

You must be kidding, ever heard of ICE. Bringing in the National Guard.
There is enough force already in the US.
We don’t have that many mass shootings or gun violence even when adjusting for population size simply because not everybody owns 10-20 guns in Canada.

Look at American violent crime rates by demographics - most of them are the same as Canada's. My main point is gun's aren't the PRIMARY reason for the homicides here.

The theoretical reason for gun ownership is so the population can resist tyranny. Obviously in the 21st century with modern technology this isn't the same.
Because there's already so many guns in the States - including many illegal ones in the hands of criminals - it's necessary to allow people to buy them. Keeping prospective gunowners disarmed in such a country is insane. I used to live in a bad neighborhood and owning a firearm was necessary at the time and afforded me a lot of security.

 

[Fradi]

Look at American violent crime rates by demographics - most of them are the same as Canada's. My main point is gun's aren't the PRIMARY reason for the homicides here.

The theoretical reason for gun ownership is so the population can resist tyranny. Obviously in the 21st century with modern technology this isn't the same.
Because there's already so many guns in the States - including many illegal ones in the hands of criminals - it's necessary to allow people to buy them. Keeping prospective gunowners disarmed in such a country is insane. I used to live in a bad neighborhood and owning a firearm was necessary at the time and afforded me a lot of security.

Yours is the argument everyone uses and all it does is increases the amount of guns, it solves neither the crime rate nor the amount of people killed by guns.
I would not want to live in the US it is not safe.
The amount of automatic and semi automatic guns in the hands of private citizens which cannot be explained as for protection but can kill literally hundreds in a matter of minutes is insane.
This makes it very easy for insane lunatics to go out in a blaze of glory with mass shootings or for terrorists as well.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Yours is the argument everyone uses and all it does is increases the amount of guns, it solves neither the crime rate nor the amount of people killed by guns.
I would not want to live in the US it is not safe.
The amount of automatic and semi automatic guns in the hands of private citizens which cannot be explained as for protection but can kill literally hundreds in a matter of minutes is insane.
This makes it very easy for insane lunatics to go out in a blaze of glory with mass shootings or for terrorists as well.

Actually Vardhan945's argument is correct. You have to adapt to the environment you live in or you will die. It's true in the Animal Kingdom and it's also an extension of Darwin Theory. Adaptation is survival, and failure to adapt means death. In many cases having a gun will deter rather create violence. The pulling of guns on aggressors in the night often deters them. If it doesn't you can shoot at the kneecaps unlike the ICE agents who pumped Alex Pretti full of lead. Some aggressors on the street do deserve a bullet in the kneecap. Either you give it to them or they will take your money and then rape your wife, leaving you weeping at her side and wishing you had done more to protect her. Your weakness would then sadly and tragically be exposed.

Pretend you are Charles Bronson. Would you want a gun in this situation or not?

 

[Fradi]

. It's true in the Animal Kingdom and it's also an extension of Darwin Theory.

The US is not far away from that lol. It has become a zoo and you now have a zoo keeper that can’t control the animals and lets them roam free.
When the only way to protect yourself is to buy more guns don’t you think there is something very wrong with that kind of mentality and society.

 

[EagerBeaver]

don’t you think there is something very wrong with that kind of mentality and society.

It's like saying there is something wrong with the Animal Kingdom, and that sharks shouldn't attack seals, but instead be kind to them. You have 2 choices, one is to live in reality, the other is to live in a fantasy world. I choose to live in reality.

 

[Sean007]

It's like saying there is something wrong with the Animal Kingdom, and that sharks shouldn't attack seals, but instead be kind to them. You have 2 choices, one is to live in reality, the other is to live in a fantasy world. I choose to live in reality.

Major différence between the animal Kingdom and the US people is intelligence, so this comparaison is a bit of a fallacious argument. US people do this willingly.

 

[Fradi]

It's like saying there is something wrong with the Animal Kingdom, and that sharks shouldn't attack seals, but instead be kind to them. You have 2 choices, one is to live in reality, the other is to live in a fantasy world. I choose to live in reality.

That is a ridiculous comparison.
You actually approve of Americans living like animals killing each other because that is basically what you are saying.
What a way to live kill or be killed lol.

 

[EagerBeaver]

That is a ridiculous comparison.
You actually approve of Americans living like animals killing each other because that is basically what you are saying.
What a way to live kill or be killed lol.

Not at all, just acknowledging that the street has its rules of engagement and you need to play by them, one of which is "might makes right." As in the Animal Kingdom. You expect me to be a philosopher or sociologist on society and I am not that. I am only commenting on the post of Vardan945, who unlike you spoke from experience, and agreeing with it. Sociology is beyond the scope of this thread. You may want to armchair quarterback but I will listen to someone playing in the game. Metaphorically speaking of course.

 

[Vardhan945]

The US is not far away from that lol. It has become a zoo and you now have a zoo keeper that can’t control the animals and lets them roam free.
When the only way to protect yourself is to buy more guns don’t you think there is something very wrong with that kind of mentality and society.

If the United States was a healthier and more cohesive society with a social contract, there would be mechanisms to preemptively stop potentially stop mass sh00ters + police certain groups.
The availability of guns - you are correct - does cause an increase in the number of deaths. But

That is a ridiculous comparison.
You actually approve of Americans living like animals killing each other because that is basically what you are saying.
What a way to live kill or be killed lol.

Sir, just ask yourself what...groups of Americans are committing so many murders. The stats are available.

Then compare these different groups murder rates with Canada, Australia or any Western European murder rate.

The decisive factor is not guns.

I cant be more specific without violating TOS lol

 

[Fradi]

If the United States was a healthier and more cohesive society with a social contract, there would be mechanisms to preemptively stop potentially stop mass sh00ters + police certain groups.
The availability of guns - you are correct - does cause an increase in the number of deaths. But

Sir, just ask yourself what...groups of Americans are committing so many murders. The stats are available.

Then compare these different groups murder rates with Canada, Australia or any Western European murder rate.

The decisive factor is not guns.

I cant be more specific without violating TOS lol

Yes you are correct that there are certain groups that are committing more crimes and gun violence, however not mass shootings.
In the end they are all Americans.
The decisive factor is the fact that with the abundance of guns in private hands and the ease of which you can obtain them legally it is and will always be the number one choice for murder, mass killings and violent crime in the US.

It is a gun happy society that will never want to relinquish their weapons and it will get worse and may take a few generations who will finally want to change it.
For me the decisive factor is the amount of guns and the ease you can obtain them. The US has more guns in the hands of private citizens than the rest of the world put together probably.

 

[Fradi]

Not at all, just acknowledging that the street has its rules of engagement and you need to play by them, one of which is "might makes right." As in the Animal Kingdom. You expect me to be a philosopher or sociologist on society and I am not that. I am only commenting on the post of Vardan945, who unlike you spoke from experience, and agreeing with it. Sociology is beyond the scope of this thread. You may want to armchair quarterback but I will listen to someone playing in the game. Metaphorically speaking of course.

No I expect you to face the fact that Americans have a love relationship with guns and it is the number one choice for murder, mass killings and violence.
You want to live in the streets with “might makes right” and your ridiculous Rambo analogies go right ahead.

I want my grandchildren to live in a society where they can walk the streets safely at night can attend school without armed security guards or having to arm teachers to protect them.
I don’t want the National guard being called in nor ICE agents shooting ICU nurses or taking children out of grade school to be held for deportation and certainly not a society that worships guns.

 

[minutemenX]

That is a ridiculous comparison.
You actually approve of Americans living like animals killing each other because that is basically what you are saying.
What a way to live kill or be killed lol.

The problem is that Americans unlike Europeans traditionally do not rely much on the government for defense and protection and often rightly so. God created men, Col. Colt made them equal

 

[EagerBeaver]

God created men, Col. Colt made them equal

That's right. Fradi wants to turn this thread into a fantasy land commentary and advance his ideas about sociology and political science. I am not biting. Again, I am choosing to live in reality rather than ignore it.

 

[Fradi]

That's right. Fradi wants to turn this thread into a fantasy land commentary and advance his ideas about sociology and political science. I am not biting. Again, I am choosing to live in reality rather than ignore it.

No fantasy land, unlike you making a few weekend visits to Canada for blow jobs, I was in the US on business once or twice a week for 35 years plus 2-3 weeks every winter.
Apart from that half of my wife’s family live in the US so I am much more familiar with life in the US than you think.

Reality is it is a gun loving society with more guns in the hands of private citizens than in the rest of the world combined.
It has the highest gun violence, most deadly crimes, murders, mass killings are committed with guns and most city streets are unsafe to walk after dark.
This is what you are so proud of and you use the Animal kingdom as a comparison and use characters out of movies like Rambo and Death Wish.
This is what you are so proud of lol.

I couldn’t care less about political science I live in the real world, always have and know where it is safe to live and where it isn’t and the reasons why.

 

[Fradi]

Col. Colt made them equal

Your equal because your holding a gun in your hand?
Pretty sad lol.

 

[minutemenX]

Your equal because your holding a gun in your hand?
Pretty sad lol.

Fradi, the United States is a relatively young country with a very specific history. The wild frontier mentality when nobody can rely on the authority and must defend himself is pretty much alive. Having armed population sure may look crazy to non-American considering so many nutcases, but this is the price Americans are willing to pay for the presumed ability to defend themselves notwithstanding it is real or only imaginable

 

[Fradi]

Fradi, the United States is a relatively young country with a very specific history. The wild frontier mentality when nobody can rely on the authority and must defend himself is pretty much alive. Having armed population sure may look crazy to non-American considering so many nutcases, but this is the price Americans are willing to pay for the presumed ability to defend themselves notwithstanding it is real or only imaginable

You honestly think you can defend yourselves against government by owning guns, that is laughable and is not real.
Right now your country is so divided it is not government you need to worry about but each other and everyone being armed is a real scary situation.

 

[Vardhan945]

Fradi, the United States is a relatively young country with a very specific history. The wild frontier mentality when nobody can rely on the authority and must defend himself is pretty much alive. Having armed population sure may look crazy to non-American considering so many nutcases, but this is the price Americans are willing to pay for the presumed ability to defend themselves notwithstanding it is real or only imaginable

Canada has a similar frontier mentality, no? Especially out West.

And werent gun laws pretty loose in Canada until recent decades?

You honestly think you can defend yourselves against government by owning guns, that is laughable and is not real.
Right now your country is so divided it is not government you need to worry about but each other and everyone being armed is a real scary situation.

Fradi - you are correct that the ability of American citizens to use firearms to resist government tyranny is far less applicable in the 21st century**
But consider this - the US had MUCH less restrictive gun laws for all its history. until the 1980s, even automatic weapons were legal and more states allowed you to carry without a license!

The mass shooting and violent crime epidemic of the last several decades is downstream of other factors (lack of social cohesion, modern degeneracy, demographic issues that cant be freely talked about).

Perhaps waving a magic wand and making guns disappear would make it safer...but that cant happen and since theres already so many guns, its only fair e we let new prospective gun owners buy them.


**A caveat to this is during Covid, americans being well armed made blue state governments and law enforcement less willing to enforce lockdowns and certain mandates. having a wrll armed population preemptively stopped the Covid tyranny you had in Canada where people lost bank accounts for protesting the mandates and stuff.

 

[Fradi]

Canada has a similar frontier mentality, no? Especially out West.

And werent gun laws pretty loose in Canada until recent decades?

Fradi - you are correct that the ability of American citizens to use firearms to resist government tyranny is far less applicable in the 21st century**
But consider this - the US had MUCH less restrictive gun laws for all its history. until the 1980s, even automatic weapons were legal and more states allowed you to carry without a license!

The mass shooting and violent crime epidemic of the last several decades is downstream of other factors (lack of social cohesion, modern degeneracy, demographic issues that cant be freely talked about).

Perhaps waving a magic wand and making guns disappear would make it safer...but that cant happen and since theres already so many guns, its only fair e we let new prospective gun owners buy them.


**A caveat to this is during Covid, americans being well armed made blue state governments and law enforcement less willing to enforce lockdowns and certain mandates. having a wrll armed population preemptively stopped the Covid tyranny you had in Canada where people lost bank accounts for protesting the mandates and stuff.

I understand what you are saying and agree with most of it.
Guns are not going to magically disappear and even implementing gun controls will take generations for significant change to occur as right now it is political suicide to even talk about gun control.
The current population is not ready for significant change regarding guns that is obvious and sad at the same time.
The problem is you need to start somewhere sending prayers and condolences when people are shot and killed does nothing.

We had the worst covid controls here in Quebec but a trucker blockade brought people to their senses and ended it all without having to be armed to the teeth.
I have had 8 covid shots so obviously I believe in vaccination helping, but at the same time it should be an individuals choice not something forced on you by government and the curfews we had we’re just insane and ridiculous and should never have been accepted by the population.
I believe both government and the population learned enough not to stand for such controls being imposed on the population again.