Merb.ca featured in a LaPresse article

[GuitarPlaya]

https://merb.cc featured in a LaPresse article

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/dossiers/montreal-capitale-du-sexe

I'd like to get some SP's impressions on what is said in those (there are about 10articles I think)articles. I thought the reporter, Isabelle Hachey, really puts the emphasis on "girls being treated like shit"

What do you guys think ?

Sorry it's in French, but I tested Google Translate and it did an ok job.

 

[Halloween Mike]

Hum the story of the girl "Charlie" is really horrible. And i have no doubt there is some "agencies" like that, the ones that you don't see here on merb. But when it comes to us and merb, i doubt any agency advertising here badly treat there girls...

I agree the GFE service is almost mandatory now, and i supose lots of girls would prefer a non-GFE service. But if it became such a basic today, its because lots of girl where offering it. I myself wouldn't go to montreal if there was no GFE... Its the main reason i make the trip... GFE, CIM, services mentioned, you know what you gonna get... I pay more for it, and honestly i don't know how the girl really feel about it... is it worst for her, does she mind at all? Who knows...

I can't be sure of course, but i hope i am not encouraging any agencies that do what those articles are mentioning. But i am pretty certain i don't. I don't see everything but for what i saw the girls of the merb agencies seem to be pretty much free to change place, quit or do as they want, this is how it should be. The problem is the rest... the whole "street gang" part mention by her...

Je connais une fille dont les bras sont couverts de cicatrices. Elle se coupe après chaque client. Pour elle, chaque cicatrice est un échec

For exemple i wouldn't even touch that girl for free... i mean would i see a girl with scars all over her body, it would be a complete turn off and make me feel too bad, i don't know what i would do... try to help her? I supose... if i can.

I was reading the story of the guy "Claude" , its crazy such things still exist. Somewhat there should be ways to deal with these assholes that mistreat the girls and especially the ones that "recrut" minors...

 

[anonguy]

Maybe I just patronize the right agencies, but I have seen ZERO evidence of girls being somewhere against their will, or forced to do anything they don't want to. In fact, sometimes I feel it's a lot riskier for clients than SPs in Montreal. Or maybe MERB is just a good filter, and there is some underground world of exploitation I'm just not aware of & that stays off the boards.

 

[EagerBeaver]

These kinds of articles have appeared in the past and my impression is they focus on either bottom of the barrel operations and clients who are all on Craigs List or similar sites and are never named, or street level agencies and operations of which we sometimes read in random threads on MERB. I am annoyed because every article that appears on the sex trade in the media, whether in Montreal or elsewhere, is usually authored by a holier than thou feminist who believes she is covering new ground, even though this article is a recycled version of about a hundred different articles that appeared in the past in many media in many cities, each and every one of them purporting to be some ground-breaking expose. You never read about the other side of it which is clients bestowing extraordinary amounts of money and gifts on the ladies and lending generous assistance to them to try to get them educated or on a better track in their lives. It is a small slice of life that they are writing about that supports their own personal agenda, and should not be viewed as some even handed essay on the sex industry as a whole. These writers tend to cast all prostitutes as exploited victims, incapable of making their own choices and ruined by unstable home lives or abusive parents or family members who sapped them of their self esteem. Yes, I have seen some of this in some ladies I have met, but it is far more complex than the simplistic and dramatic portrayal of every escort as an exploited and manipulated victim.

I read the article on Charlie, translated by Google, and I thought it was a cliched piece of non-informative trash journalism which quite frankly analyzes one person who is likely working at a more street level operation. There is a reference to Charlie being seen and manipulated by "blacks", which I have no idea what that means or is supposed to mean, but the general flavor I get is that she is looking deeper down the barrel than any of us do.

You should pay as much attention to this article as you do to the fly who buzzes noisily around the dinner table. Swat it away and move on.

 

[Halloween Mike]

EB : In many articles they talk about "her black" like every girl has a black pimp street gang member that abuse her, beat her and such. They talk about girls being gangbanded as some initiation to enter a street gang... clearly stuff i have not seen and doubt represent most of the escorting scene ...lol.

 

[snoodle]

im fed up of this bullshit ! why dont these reporters shut their filthy mouths.
Whenever they need to fill some space in a paper they talk about prostitution....
FUCK OFF ALREADY !!!!!!!!!! :wave:

 

[Merlot]

Gentlemen,

And i have no doubt there is some "agencies" like that, the ones that you don't see here on merb. But when it comes to us and merb, i doubt any agency advertising here badly treat there girls...

I was wondering how comfortable you are with that statement? Is anyone truly comfortable with it, or is it that the alternative is too uncomfortable to accept. There have been times when the usual opening chit chat..."so how do you like this business"...has gotten some responses about particular former bosses heavily indicating bad treatment, and a boss or two concerned was extremely familiar by name.

I agree the GFE service is almost mandatory now, and i supose lots of girls would prefer a non-GFE service. But if it became such a basic today, its because lots of girl where offering it. I myself wouldn't go to montreal if there was no GFE...

I'd be making the trip anyway simply because the U.S. situation is far too risky.

All it takes is enough ladies willing to offer GFE to pull in more and more clients non-GFEs can't or have a harder time getting to compel them all to do it...or at least say they do it.

For exemple i wouldn't even touch that girl for free... i mean would i see a girl with scars all over her body, it would be a complete turn off and make me feel too bad, i don't know what i would do... try to help her? I supose... if i can.

I had seen one very beautiful lady three times. She wasn't GFE but she was too gorgeous to let being non-GFE get in the way. Then the fourth time we met she had a long fresh scar going down her belly. I obviously asked about it with some shock. She said she had been in a car accident. The thing that didn't match up was a scar from an accident would have been randomly located and probably ragged. This one was almost perfectly straight and ran almost perfectly mid-line from about the lower tip of the breast bone to the navel. Scary to think about. She quit or disappeared from the business soon after.

These kinds of articles have appeared in the past and my impression is they focus on either bottom of the barrel operations and clients who are all on Craigs List or similar sites and are never named, or street level agencies and operations of which we sometimes read in random threads on MERB.

Maybe there's a larger preponderance of abuse in those situations, but as I have already indicated, I think this view that we are not near any of this has something to do with allowing ourselves to feel more comfortable about what we do. According to a couple of former drivers, let's just say there's reason to be concerned.

...sometimes I feel it's a lot riskier for clients than SPs in Montreal...

I haven't seen escorts in the same large numbers as many, but since starting in 2001 I've never had one case of trouble as a client. I doubt there are many ladies who can say that.

Sure the articles are a rehash...political pandering...or maybe a retread of feminist cyclical targeting. But I wonder how far from the truth they really are.

Happy thoughts,

Merlot

 

[GuitarPlaya]

I was hoping to get some SPs input on the matter.
I agree with EB that this is the type of article that should basically be ignored. However I also agreed with Capt concerning the demographic which reads this newspaper.
I am concerned that anti prostitution laws might become more drastic as a bigger part of the population might take the information written in these articles for cash.
I hope the few SPs that participate in this forum will provide their comments as I'm sure they wont be biased by any political standpoint.

 

[Halloween Mike]

Gentlemen,



I was wondering how comfortable you are with that statement? Is anyone truly comfortable with it, or is it that the alternative is too uncomfortable to accept. There have been times when the usual opening chit chat..."so how do you like this business"...has gotten some responses about particular former bosses heavily indicating bad treatment, and a boss or two concerned was extremely familiar by name.



I'd be making the trip anyway simply because the U.S. situation is far too risky.

Well yeah the US ain't the same, i was more or less talking mostly about my local town vs montreal...

As for the other part... well i hope its not the case, and if it would be and i would be aware of it, ill try to help if i can. Sometimes i ask the girls how they are treated and such. Of course nothing tell me they are not lying but well... My "business" with agencies is pretty limited to certain agencies right now, and i am pretty sure the girls are threated right.

 

[TheDon]

To show this industry in a positive light would mean to justify to the public that it is ok.

 

[anon_vlad]

One thing which is true is that some young women before starting as SPs have never been abused, have some education and come from middle class families. If, for the sake of argument, one accepts the premise that becoming an SP is a problem, the root cause is often materialism and laziness. The young lady wants luxuries and doesn't want to wait and work for it.

Before the white knights and SPs embark on my back, please note that I realize that SPs are unique human beings and do not all have the same motives, and, in particular, not the motives mentioned in the preceding paragraph.

 

[Merlot]

...I think this view that we are not near any of this has something to do with allowing ourselves to feel more comfortable about what we do. According to a couple of former drivers, let's just say there's reason to be concerned.

Merlot, typically you have a believing, unskeptical attitude towards anti-prostitution crusaders and these kind of articles (have you actually read them?).

Hello Capt,

The funny thing about your criticism is you didn't quote me about references to the article, you quoted me on first hand witness information from the drivers and criticized that. My original view comes from what the actual players, the escorts and drivers have said. Not the article. And by the way I had lunch with Celine of Celines Fantasies once and her general attitude about the business was just about as harsh as the article.

You have a biased attitude that allows you to feel comfortable about making a nonsense misrepresentation. Actually I read two articles in full on the website. I'm am very skeptical about the extreme views in such articles as they try to paint the worst about the industry overall. But I still choose not to whitewash my point of view in the opposite direction either. If you think all is hunky dory then you are just as heavily one-sided and agenda driven as them. I didn't think that was the case since it seemed to be you acknowledging some of the seedier side of the business when you said: "not all prostitutes are happy; some are exploited; some are addicted to alcohol or drugs, which is sad". There you seem to be at exactly the same level I'm at. Right there you also had that, "Well, some of it might be true!" attitude you object to from me. So are you following your own advice about showing this acknowledgement and getting out of the hobby to solve your own angst.

All I wanted to add was a little doubt that we function in a La La Land of safety and bliss as some seemed to be alluding to. I only point out that calling up agencies at random, led by men and women most of us can't possibly know much about, and meeting ladies at random we usually know nothing about...is a laughably imperfect way of having much accurate reference about what goes on or that we are always dealing with happy free ladies all of the time.

The fact that you feel comfortable making an incredibly inaccurate knee-jerk presumption about my view to me shows a guy that is very defensive against and afraid of any alternative opinion, no matter how close to his own.

Cheers,

Merlot

 

[GuitarPlaya]

Patron, I don't understand how a positive article could risk outing an SP more than a negative one. Talking about abuses in her past, troubles she might've had, the name of her pimp, can just as easily out her.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I just read some of the articles & it's my opinion that they were all very well written. They expose a lot of truth about the business & it's obvious that the reporter did a lot of research.

However, it's understandable (and expected) that most people will have their own opinion & views and disagree (or refuse to believe) with some of the things reported in the articles.

 

[gugu]

I just read some of the articles & it's my opinion that they were all very well written. They expose a lot of truth about the business & it's obvious that the reporter did a lot of research.

1 Get a report by the SPVM with Radio Canada
2 Describe very poorly what's in the report
3 Make a few phone calls with the two most anti prostitution police spoke people in Montréal
4 Make a few phone call with 2 or 3 prohibitionist organization
5 Call Stella to make sure not to be accused of being one sided
6 Mixing spokes people's opinions with facts

Not much research there. It has more to do with calling the right people to get the opinion she wants to convey.

 

[Halloween Mike]

Guys who do not see escorts and women who have never participated in the sex industry are simply fucked up about it. I realize that Montreal natives are not as fucked up about it as people in the U.S., but they are still pretty fucked up about it.

I didn't quote the entire thing, but mostly yes this is a problem i see. I don't understand whats bad about being an escort, a pornstar or anything else related to sex. For exemple if you made porn or even just nude pics, you can't be a contestant for Miss whatever... Ok they may think this would give an edge to the girl as being voted for or whatever, but really i feel its discrimination to not allow her for something she did in her pass.

On the same part, a girl wich was escort could never be mayor or whatever because people seem to still think it was a wrong choice and she would be publicaly "humiliated" by it... even if there is nothing t be ashamed off.

Its like that guy that called escort, the former major of i dont remember, laval or montreal, whatever... he had to resign because he called escort? Really? Can the guy just live a bit? I wish the society would open up on sexuality...

I mean what happens between 2 consentant adults should never be a subject of shame or repercussion. If i have a friend, wich happen to be a girl, and im good at let say making dresses... and she ask me to make her a dress... she would pay me for a service right... wich i provide.. How is that different from her providing me with sex, when its what i need and we are both ok about it...Thats what i still don't understand... Its still just an exchange of services... and should be seem as that.

Sometimes i just don't get the world...

 

[tiannas]

I don't know anything about agencies or pimps, so I can't make an informed comment on that side of things, and what kind of treatment those girls receive. I would expect that being pimped out would be pretty bad. Agencies, well there's got to be good and bad - I have no doubt that some are mistreating their girls, and others are good.

Personally I love what I do, am doing so of my own free will and do not feel pressured in any way in this business. However, and this is a big distinction, I choose who I want to see. No one tells me who my clients will be. And I do say no to clients if I don't like them for whatever reason. I want to continue enjoying this work and if I don't think we will get along, then it's better we don't see each other. And to be completely honest, some clients are extremely rude and disgusting. In fairness, most of those I have encountered have not come from merb. If I was in a situation where I was being told to see some of those clients, I might feel exploited. I simply haven't put myself in that situation.

I think that we are looking at this situation from inside of a merb bubble. There are decent people here, seeing higher quality girls, so we are somewhat protected from the seedier side of the industry. Look at the ads on Ann123 or Backpage, the girl offering 15 minute CIM blowjobs - I can't imagine she likes her job all that much! Look at the street prostitutes, I don't think anyone would argue that they are happy with their work.

Having said that, it would be refreshing if just once the media would tell both sides of the story and report on the well-adjusted empowered women who are working in this industry by choice and the respectable gentlemen who utilize their services.

 

[Marlow]

There will soon be a boost in membership.

 

[Merlot]

The articles in La Presse are nothing but propaganda in the war being waged against the sex industry.

Hello Capt,

Let's remember we are talking about a semi-legal sex industry in Montreal that allows "companionship" but no exchange of money for sex and that if there are any problems both clients and escorts can be very reluctant to risk having their "relationship" exposed. So legal protection and/or redress is very problematic.

*First I'll state my views about the Montreal sex industry scene so no one can distort them.

1. I think the article in La Presse purposely distorts the truth about the sex industry and make it extremely one-sided because they have an agenda to make it seem as ugly as possible so it will never be legalized. Profits for sensationalism help too.

2. Aside from La Presse the media has often unfairly tried to make the sex industry look as ugly as possible by being sensationalistic and making seedy portrayals of danger to these women for profits, and have entirely failed to offer an alternative view for those same profits.

3. I know there is a large branch of the Feminist Movement that can't stand the idea that a woman can make a rational and lucid choice to be in the sex industry, and they are out to attack any anyone and any view that says otherwise.

4. I believe there are many women who do make rational and lucid choices to be in the sex industry. (Keep in mind many here on Merb have passionately fought against this view from others as well as myself).

5. I also believe that because of the semi-legality of the industry it's not as safe as other jobs, and abuse in the form of manipulation, coercion, and force goes on and is a greater risk than other work choices.

*Now for what CaptRenault seems to clearly indicate are his views.

1. The articles in La Presse are "nothing but propaganda"...meaning untrue, fabricated, and the details in there have nothing to do with the reality of the sex industry.

2. The media in general has always lied about the real situation in the sex industry, none of the seedier elements depicted in any expose such as involvement by abusive pimps, drug dealers, gangs, or mafia type organizations has ever been true.

3. All feminists are out to destroy the sex industry, and everything they say regarding the instances of the seedy side in every detail is NOTHING BUT PROPAGANDA.

4. Women in the sex industry don't face any more risk in the sex industry than working as housewives, waitresses, salespersons, technicians, managers, or executives, etc., and any instances or risk of manipulation, coercion, abuse, or drug addiction is no higher.

5. Every woman at least at the main agencies have made very rational, lucid, intelligent choices and are always as safe as any woman working in any other job.

I just read some of the articles & it's my opinion that they were all very well written. They expose a lot of truth about the business & it's obvious that the reporter did a lot of research.

HH don't be too quick to assume agencies that advertise here all treat the ladies well. They do appear to, and hopefully do as well, but I've also heard between the lines that some guys could be rough with the girls. Merb world is not all nice and pretty and flawless.

So it's your view that the sex industry is just as "Vanilla" or at least no worse than any other work choice, and that all we clients, also the owners and sex industry associates who fight over them (including alleged revenge threats), are no more risk to the ladies than anyone they might meet in any other workplace. Never mind the poll revelations of STD risk from admissions of BBFS whether consensual, tricked, or coerced.

I'd say you have a strangely vanilla UNSKEPTICAL ATTITUDE...others besides myself don't agree with.

**I now leave this to you. You don't accept any first hand witness information, and you are determined to deny anything worst goes on in the sex industry than anywhere else despite years of member and escort revelations of all kinds. I call that very NAIVE and DENIAL. End of story.

Cheers Capt,

Merlot

 

[anon_vlad]

This is one of the great myths. The notion that escorting, massaging or stripping is not work is completely ludicrous.

As your pseudonym comes from an Ayn Rynd novel, I suppose that your viewpoint is that sex workers provide services for which we are willing to pay so their occupations constitute work. I fully agree with you, but should have been more precise.

As your quote was incomplete, I repeat that not all those who become sex workers do so for luxuries.