MLB 2019 Playoffs

[EagerBeaver]

Cora will get 2-3 years and be fired by the Red Sox.

I think Manfred handslapped with the 2 first round draft picks - should have been at least 3, maybe 4. And $5 million is nothing, the Astros already made up half of that by forcing Springer to arbitration after he demanded $22.5 million and they offered 17.5. They recoup $2.5 million for fine money if the arbitrator gives Springer $20 million.

I had originally hoped for a stripping of the Astros 2017 title but that would have had many negative ramifications, and called the integrity of the sport into even greater question. Suspensions, draft pick forfeitures and fines were the way to go. The suspensions were good, the draft pick forfeiture and fines were kinda light.

And also no punishment for the Taubman fiasco in which the Astros defamed a sports reporter who reported the truth. But that might be a separate investigation, and punishment, not sure.

 

[GaryH]

The 2017 title will always be tainted. The team will be jeered in every stadium next year as cheaters. But sadly, crime does pay. They made millions of dollars off their World Series title and if you asked the fans, they would probably say that it was worth it if necessay to win the title.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Here is Manfred’s statement which details all findings of fact and Manfred’s conclusions. Brandon Taubman was also suspended for his conduct in the clubhouse through the 2020 season:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cr...he-houston-astros-sign-stealing-investigation

There is no question that the 2017 Astros WS Title is permanently tainted. However the Manfred Report mentions that players did question the effectiveness of the schemes being used. Manfred is careful to not opine on effectiveness other than to say it created an appearance of unfairness.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Here is Crane presser announcing firing of Luhnow and Hinch:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mlb.com/amp/news/astros-sign-stealing-penalty.html

 

[Robert 21]

Who didn’t see this coming...

Alex Cora, Red Sox part ways in wake of investigations
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28485788/alex-cora-red-sox-part-ways-wake-investigations



ba BYE

 

[EagerBeaver]

It occurred to me that Cora has a problem apart from being fired. When MLB investigates the Red Sox all the Red Sox players will know Cora was already inculpated by others in the Astros investigation. They will also know those players who discussed participating and inculpated Cora were not punished. They have plenty of incentive to tell the truth where Cora is concerned. Now that he has been fired, they will not be protecting their manager.

I am also now wondering about the Red Sox 2018 GM. If I were his attorney I would be telling him to comb through all his emails on the use of the replay room. Could be another Luhnow situation- negligent failure to stop stuff going on below deck.

 

[sharkman]

If MLB wanted to get serious and set a precedent, they should have stripped the 2017 WS title from the Astros and awarded it to the Dodgers!

A $5 million fine...it's a drop in the bucket!...What a joke this decision by MLB is!

 

[EagerBeaver]

If MLB wanted to get serious and set a precedent, they should have stripped the 2017 WS title from the Astros and awarded it to the Dodgers!!

Although that may have been an appropriate punishment for the Astros, I think it would have done severe harm to the sport of MLB and have very serious negative repercussions. The punishment itself raises questions about the integrity of the sport when a team is somehow, some way allowed to engage in rules breaking schemes, which later result in a stripping of a World Series title. I am sure Manfred considered the consequences in terms of perception. Also, it would cast into question millions of dollars bet on these games. If the Astros are stripped, does that mean that the guy down in Houston who won a $1 million dollar bet on the team to win the 2017 World Series has to give the money back? What if it's all gone? It would lead to numerous lawsuits, create chaos, the finality of the results would then be called into question by the public and NO MONEY would be bet on any teams, for fear of cheating and title stripping. It was not an option. I am pretty sure Manfred thought of all of this. It would have severely damaged the credibility and reliability of the World Series results. If you are MLB, it's not what you want- you want the games being bet on and generating interest.

You can easily strip an amateur or Little League team of a title, but it's much more complicated on the major professional level.

 

[GaryH]

EB: Those are really good points which none of the talking heads on T.V. or radio sports shows have pointed out. I would have liked to see the Astros stripped of their title, but they really can't because of all the points you made. It's now a paper title only and is tainted. I wonder if the betting agencies have any recourse to get the money back that they lost.

The Red Sox GM from 2018 has already been fired. Does he really have anything else to worry about at this point?

 

[EagerBeaver]

The Red Sox GM from 2018 has already been fired. Does he really have anything else to worry about at this point?

Suspension from working anywhere in MLB for 2020, just like Luhnow.

 

[GaryH]

I don't think Dave Dombrowski was going to work anywhere in MLB in 2020 anyways. He put the Red Sox into cap hell. I believe he was also the Expos GM at one point also.

Waiting to see if the Red Sox are getting any penalties as a team like the Astros or will they skate. I still can't understand how the Red Sox have escaped serious penalties in the past, especially after Peter Gammons wrote an article where he named two Red Sox personnel who said the team brought in people to teach the players how to avoid failing PED tests.

And will the Mets do anything with Beltran? I expect Hinch will work for the Mets in some capacity in 2021.

 

[GaryH]

The fallout continues - Beltran out as manager (a "mutual parting of the ways"). Like Belichick - 1 day coaching the NY Jets and Billy Donovan - 1 week coaching the Orlando Magic. No games actually managed/coached.

Now MLB can move on to investigating the 2019 ALCS where according to Beltran's "niece", Altuve and Bregman wore buzzers under their shirts to alert them to the pitch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9L3M_sfJnE

https://www.instagram.com/p/B7ZM5PlFf88/?igshid=396incks009p

Let the conspiracy theories start again. LOL.

 

[hungry101]

If the Detroit Tigers had stolen every sign and I mean every sign. If they stole the signs between the catcher and the pitcher while on offense and the 3rd base coach and the batter and base runners on defense we would still be in dead last place and have the worst offense in baseball.

 

[jalimon]

I am a bit surprised by all the uproar... For me cheating and baseball is kind of peaches and cream

 

[EagerBeaver]

Jalimon,

What the Astros did violated written rules governing MLB teams and the violations were admitted. Furthermore after the Red Sox were disciplined for using iPhones during a game against the Yankees in 2017, all MLB teams received a memo from Commissioner Manfred which basically said “do it again (using video to cheat) and you will be harshly punished.” Many feel the punishment wasn’t harsh enough.

 

[hungry101]

^^^ In Texas they say "If you ain't cheatin you ain't tryin."

 

[jalimon]

^^^ In Texas they say "If you ain't cheatin you ain't tryin."

That's what I tough about baseball too...

You see Baseball is pretty much the only slow paced team sport where the actual play is one on one. A pitcher against's a batter. Team playing is minimal and not all that important. Hence in the history of the sport cheating and baseball go hand in hand. It's not like in my favorite sport, soccer, where cheating is non existent... Hum well except every 45 seconds when one tackles another player who then fakes an injury haha

 

[EagerBeaver]

Jalimon,

It’s true that some forms of cheating (visual sign stealing) are legal in baseball, and it’s also true that the nature of the sport invites cheating to get an advantage. But in the past 30 years PEDs were outlawed and you now get an 80 game suspension for a first offense and a permanent ban for a second offense. There are rules that limit the extent to which you can steal signs. The Astros and Red Sox sought to circumvent those rules and now are being punished.

The essence of baseball is in fact a Mano a Mano confrontation between pitcher and batter. Pitchers have tried to doctor balls in order to promote ball movement, but there are rules on this as well. The objective for the pitcher is to fool the batter with deception either with his windup, or the movement and speed of his pitches or the release point or some combination of all. Some pitchers are better at it than others. The objective for the batter is to “barrel” the pitch, if it’s a strike, or wait for the pitcher to throw a hittable strike, if it’s a ball. At the major league level there is a very fine line between success and failure. What happens when good hitters get older is they lose the ability to generate bat speed, pitchers adjust by increasing their diet of fastballs, and the hitter can no longer adjust because he can no longer hit the fastball. This cannot he hidden and eventually scouts, and adept fans observe the inability to hit.

The cheating the Astros did all had to do with pitch recognition. What separates a good MLB hitter is his ability to recognize pitches instantly as they are delivered. If you don’t know what’s coming and don’t have good pitch recognition you are going to be an out. The Astros teed off on opposing pitchers because they had intel, illegally obtained, on what pitch was coming and when. Otherwise they would have had to guess or rely on pitch recognition skills- which is hard against good pitchers.

To most serious baseball fans what the Astros did crossed a line from cheating that’s allowed and part of the game to cheating that transforms a baseball game into a hard hit ball video game. It also is a form of cheating that may have cost some pitchers who were victimized contracts. Not the established pitchers but the borderline ones who had their signs stolen and were victimized. That’s why Mike Fiers went to the Athletic. Until he recently resurrected his career, he was one of those kinds of pitchers and got released by a couple teams. Last year he was one of the better pitchers for the Oakland As.

 

[hungry101]

^^^ Mike Fiers threw a no-hitter last year. I know Mike because the Tigers traded him for two pitchers we will never see at the MLB level and a washing machine...and then he threw a no-no.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Fiers has thrown 2 hitters, in 2015 and 2019. In between he had some issues that led him to be not highly valued. He was one of the better pitchers on the As last year as I mentioned previously. But in the recent past he had lost jobs and didn’t want to see the same thing happen to others.

Instead of trivializing Mike Fiers, Jalimon should be praising him as a savior of contracts for mediocre pitchers who are one bad performance away from a DFA. There are plenty of guys who have such status every MLB season.