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hungry101

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He looked good in a Tiger's uniform and after we traded him to the A's he has only performed better so he was able to right the ship and resurrect his career. However, the Tigers picked him up in the last season of a contract as a fixer upper. They do this every year now. They sign guys and if the guy performs well they trade them to a contending club before the deadline for low level prospects. We get a teams 20th best prospect or some shit and continue "tanking" so that we can get a higher draft pick.

Tanking needs to be stopped. This is terrible for the fans. Just terrible.
 
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EagerBeaver

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Unfortunately, and ironically, it was the now suspended Jeff Luhnow and the Houston Astros who took tanking to an all new level- losing 106 games 4 straight years and hoarding top draft picks which became Correa and Bregman among others. The Astros laid down the template on how to tank in baseball. However baseball somewhat sets up for teams to tank with the trade deadline, as every year teams make a determination before the deadline whether they can make playoffs or not and then if not, fire sell contracts to get draft picks or younger talent for ensuing years. The Yankees after making the playoffs in 2015 released and cut a bunch of veterans in 2016, missing the playoffs, and then brought up a bunch of younger players and were back in the playoffs in 2017-2019.

The trick is to never let your talent base- your 40 man roster reaching into your best minor league players- get so shitty that you have no shot at all of getting to the playoffs for years. Tampa Bay is a model organization with almost no payroll that year after year develops good young talent and is always competitive in the last however many years. Around 2 years ago they got rid of a bunch of veterans in cost cutting moves and didn’t skip a beat. Most teams need money to get away with this but TB is the one organization that consistently proves money isn’t needed if you are competently field managed and general managed and develop your minor league talent.
 
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GaryH

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hungry101 said:
If the Detroit Tigers had stolen every sign and I mean every sign. If they stole the signs between the catcher and the pitcher while on offense and the 3rd base coach and the batter and base runners on defense we would still be in dead last place and have the worst offense in baseball.
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Lol. Jack McDowell claims the White Sox stole signs in the 80's. "Gatorade sign out in right-center had a light, there was a toggle switch in the manager's office and a camera zoomed in on the catcher," McDowell said. "I'm going to whistleblow this now because I'm getting tired of this crap."

McDowell claims that nobody cared that they were stealing signs. Yeah, of course, because like hungry's Tigers of today, they weren't any good. Fans care about the Astros stealing signs because it helped them get to two World Series and win one World Series.
 
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EagerBeaver

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Tommy Pham has posted on his twitter a photo of Jose Altuve with a wrinkle on his jersey and what appears to be something beneath his jersey:

https://mobile.twitter.com/TphamLV/status/1217953635574976513

It’s unfortunate that MLB granted players immunity as part of its investigation. However I suspect Altuve’s first at bat against the Yankees next year will be an unpleasant one. MLB and umpires will have to give the Yankees one free shot at him after that device told him what was coming from Chapman in the ALCS.

We now know the Yankees lost 2 ALCS to the Astros that they didn’t deserve to lose.
 
Doc Holliday

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One of my buddies is a Red Sox fan and called me the other day incensed that they had just fired Alex Cora. "Why can Bellichick & the Patriots do it all the time and we can't?", he shouted to me. I told him he was correct that time after time the Patriots do get caught for cheating and pointed out to him they were disciplined for it. But i also told him the NFL is the NFL and MLB is MLB.

Then he told me "but teams have been stealing signs for as long as i can remember!" I pointed out to him that in the Houston Astros' case it wasn't simply a case of players stealing signs. With Alex Cora at the helm they made sign-stealing a science. It was a program. A system. And they ended up winning the World Series that year. And the following year Cora is hired as the Red Sox' new manager and suddenly the team undergoes a major turnaround and ends up winning the World Series under a rookie manager? Are you fucking kidding me??? My friend was speechless and stated i was probably correct but that it should be ok since the Patriots always cheat and get away with it.

The thing is if MLB didn't impose the kind of discipline it did then what's to stop all other teams from doing it? Might as well cancel all signs altogether and have the catchers scream out the pitches they want the pitchers to throw!

But Houston was stupid and only have themselves to blame for getting caught: didn't they realize that players move around and that those players wouldn't have mentioned anything to their new teams? It was only a matter of time. Surprisingly the Astros were able to do it for an entire season and the whole cheating program likely moved over to Boston the following year with Alex Cora. And it likely went on for at least another season before MLB got word of it. Amazing!

Now i'm curious to see how good the Astros & Red Sox hitters will be hitting this upcoming season without knowing which pitches will be thrown to them. It wouldn't totally surprise me to see many batting averages deflate and this time a slump or aging won't be the culprit.
 
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EagerBeaver

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I agree Doc. Mike Fiers did not necessarily have a duty to go to the press - I genuinely believe he did that out of sympathy for guys who could and maybe did lose pitching jobs because of this, but it was certainly foreseeable that Fiers would report this to any new team he played for.
 
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jalimon

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It's crazy to think Pete Rose was banned from baseball for life for betting on or against his team (cant remember) but after what the Astro's did the coach and GM are just fired and received fines... As far as I know Pete Rose never influenced the results of a game... A bit unfair.. no?
 
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EagerBeaver

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The Coach and GM were suspended for a year from MLB as well as fired. Neither was an active participant. The GM denied knowledge of the schemes and the Coach made a half-hearted effort to stop the scheme. They were disciplined because they were accountable for the actions of their subordinates. Pete Rose was banned due to his own affirmative actions in violation of MLB rules.
 
Doc Holliday

Doc Holliday

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jalimon said:
It's crazy to think Pete Rose was banned from baseball for life for betting on or against his team (cant remember) but after what the Astro's did the coach and GM are just fired and received fines... As far as I know Pete Rose never influenced the results of a game... A bit unfair.. no?
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Pete Rose knew of the consequences if he got caught betting on baseball. There was no gray area. Getting caught betting on baseball is an automatic ejection from MLB and any consideration for the Hall of Fame.

If you want to complain about Pete Rose's banishment you should look up Shoeless Joe Jackson. Now there's a case to look further into of someone who was banned from baseball and the Hall of Fame. If Shoeless Joe was banned then baseball had no choice but to ban Pete Rose.
 
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EagerBeaver

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Shoeless Joe shouldn’t have been banned. Look at his stats from the 1919 World Series. He did everything possible to win the games. There is no real evidence to the contrary. The movie Field of Dreams is in part a tribute to his legacy. Jalimon should see that movie and decide for himself.
 
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EagerBeaver

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Doc,

At its core, the movie Field of Dreams is as much a tribute to Shoeless Joe Jackson (brilliantly played by Ray Liotta in the movie) as it to baseball fandom. Some contend it’s the best baseball movie ever made. I put it up there with “Pride of the Yankees.”
 
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No_Church_InThe_Wild

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A great movie ( maybe top 20) written by a fine writer that also happened to be a Canadian
As far as shoeless Joe Jackson was concerned he was wrongfully accused so if one day a time machine gets invented MLB ought to go back in time and exonerate him and induct him in the HOF
I think more people need to read and know of this mans story
I was always fond of the whole story about the 1919 World Series and everything that revolved around the game and the gangsters and the team that eventually got caught,,, and how some players were innocent which is truly heartbreaking . Liked the whole story of shoeless Joe so much that I almost chose it as my handle many years ago lol

But what is happening these days is indeed very bad for the sport of baseball . Worse thing to happen since the whole steroids cheating , will naturally make a lot of folks tune out . To most Yankees or Dodgers fans no fines , apologies or bans can make up for it
 
Doc Holliday

Doc Holliday

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EagerBeaver said:
Doc,

At its core, the movie Field of Dreams is as much a tribute to Shoeless Joe Jackson (brilliantly played by Ray Liotta in the movie) as it to baseball fandom. Some contend it’s the best baseball movie ever made. I put it up there with “Pride of the Yankees.”
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I agree that 'Field of Dreams' and 'Pride of the Yankees' are two great baseball movies. I'd like to add 'Major League' to that list. 'Bull Durham' also is highly touted as a great baseball movie, if not THE greatest. I didn't particular enjoy 'Bull Durham' the first time and only time i saw it but maybe i was too young at the time. Maybe it's time for me to revisit that movie.

One 'baseball' movie that i really enjoyed was "For the Love of the Game", starring Kevin Costner. I saw it 2 or 3 times over the years. I've always been surprised why it rarely got mentioned among the best baseball movies ever made.

And of course "The Bad News Bears" will always be one my list as one of my favorite 'baseball' movies.
 
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EagerBeaver

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No_Church_InThe_Wild said:
A great movie ( maybe top 20) written by a fine writer that also happened to be Canadian
Click to expand...

Indeed, the movie was based on the novel “Shoeless Joe” by Canadian writer W.P. Kinsella, for whom the Kevin Costner character is named:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoeless_Joe_(novel)

It’s interesting that Costner was in 3 of the best baseball movies ever made, one of the best golf movies ever made, and the best movie ever made about GM-manager relationships in pro football in the very underrated film “Draft Day” in which he plays the GM and Denis Leary the coach. By the end of the movie they absolutely drive each other crazy because Leary isn’t liking his first round pick- until he sees him play.
 
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