My neighbour beats his GF, but I'm no superhero.

[The Woodworker]

I have heard rumours about this for some time... now it's pretty well confirmed. My upstairs neighbour beats the crap out of his girlfriend. I never see any physical signs on her face, even if I don't see her too often, but that does not mean much. I know he knocks her down to the floor a lot. Ohter than that he is verbally abusive.

A little background... the guy is pretty big, Ving Rhames comes to mind... ok, maybe not that big, but big enough. His girlfriend is a thin knockout of an Asian girl, submissive, I imagine. She looks it anyway, submissive, that is.

Now, I'm not one to keep quiet about such things... I imagine calling the police is one thing. If I do, I think he can find out it's me. I have nothing against the guy... if anything, he needs help. There's always the superhero idea of going up there and talking to him, but that could turn ugly real quick. If I'm going to get into a fight with someone, it's going to be to defend my life, but I won't willingly start trouble.

Although he is probably much stronger than me physically, I know my rage (contained, of course) would overpower him. Of course, there is also his pitbull to contend with... no match for my Rottie though, even if she has little pink hearts on her collar.

Seriously though, no machismo or posturing here... I don't think I would do any of the above unless I actually saw him hit her, which of course won't happen as such events unsually transpire behind closed doors.

Any advice? And don't tell me to leave it alone... I know it's not really my business, but something has to be done, and I know everyone else in this building is too chicken to act.

 

[the Lurker]

You should be asking the cops. They could investigate a disturbence and make their own judgment or they could suggest another course of action. Bottom line, you won't know until you ask.

 

[naughtylady]

Call the cops next time there is a "domestic disturbance", they will not let him know who called them. Do not play hero, but not helping her is not good either. Silence is acceptance. This guy needs to learn that his behaviour is not acceptable.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

 

[The Woodworker]

Thank You

I had a similar situation that hit a little closer to home about a year and a half ago. I asked my dental hygienist out... she gave me her number. Within a week or two (we never got to go out on a date, and I'm shortening this somewhat) she hung up on me in the middle of a conversation. She had mentioned her ex was still coming around even if she didn't like it.

Well, it turns out she told him about me and he beat the crap out of her. She said he would break into her house whenever she felt like it. The same guy who watched her clear the snow when she was sick as a dog... he was basically a leech. Anyway, I still don't know if she made up the story or not, but I did call the police and they told me that unless she complained, there was nothing for them to do, and since I didn't live next door to her, I couldn't possibly call in a domestic disturbance. I gave the police her number and left it in their hands. I remember talking to her and telling her "you know, once a victim, always a victim..." her reply? "Yes, I know. I have a problem with that."

The point is, you can't help someone who won't take the help. But my contact with her was much closer. This situation is different and I will keep my ears open. If I hear signs of abuse I will definitely call the police. My other stupidass neighbours would rather let it happen. But then it's the same with everything else, they don't take a stand on anything. I'm one of the few who faces up to the landlord too, they are too afraid...

Thanks for the advice. I will keep you posted. In fact, maybe I should call the police anyway, to see if there have been any other calls. They may not tell me, but I'll try.

 

[Gambling Fool]

Do it

I agree with all others that posted here. Calling the cops is a must. If you do nothing, you accept it. Even if the first time, the cops only talk to him (absence of proff or whatever), at least it will be on record that there was a disturbance. They can also build a file that way.

Guys who hit their GF or wives (or any women) should have their balls cut off. Like Nike says ; "Just do it" !!!

Gambling Fool

 

[the Lurker]

Hey Woodworker. You are right. You cannot help those who do not want to be helped. You should still try though.

You can still sleep at night knowing that you tried.

Things like this really show you that life really is the journey and not the destination.

Thanks for stepping up.
Lurk

 

[HonestAbe]

Go Bronson on him if you have too.

Keep calling the Police until they do something about it. Get a tape recorder and record the noise when he beats her and play it for them. Let them do their job.

IF, AND ONLY IF, HE CONFRONTS YOU VIOLENTLY(as in charges at you while threatening harm i.e. "I'm gonna kill you") don't bother to fight him, shoot him, just make sure he is facing towards you and close enough to claim you were in fear for your life from a known batterer of women, you'll be doing the victim and the world a favor. Of course that means you'll have to get a permit to carry concealed and I'm not sure where you live. If your in Canada tough luck if your in the US you can get a permit in most states(if you would like details on how to, Pm me), just pay attention at the safety classes and learn how to use the weapon properly so you don't shoot your neighbor down the hall. This option isn't for everyone.

I know that probably sounds weird coming from me seeing as I have put myself forth as a peace loving, violence only as a last resort, kind of guy, but a man who beats women or children doesn't deserve to breathe. No one should ever be required to be a victim, the police can't be everywhere at all times to protect us. Most police chiefs across the US encourage private ownership of firearms as long as proper training is given in the use and storage of said weapons. I'm sure some people will disagree with me but its just my opinion and Woodworker did ask.

 

[HonestAbe]

Yes, Honestly.

Shoot Him?..Hell I don't think Woodworker wants to get that involved..Its not so easy to actually kill someone, unless your a deranged lunatic..but in Canada, if you kill someone and you have any kind of reasonable, some what acceptable or sensible excuse..you don't go to jail..actually there is a lot of illegal stuff you can get away with in canada..

SA

Hi SA,

I'll assume you aren't saying I'm a deranged lunatic. I specifically said "IF AND ONLY IF HE CONFRONTS YOU VIOLENTLY" that killing him would be acceptable. Woodworker sounds like the kind of guy who is really bothered by what he is experiencing and even mentioned his own "rage" about the matter in his original post. Who knows what he is capable of doing until placed in an actual situation. This is just my opinion, Woodworker can decide for himself. Maybe he would rather beat the guy to a pulp with his bare hands. I can understand that desire too. I personally, would rather dispatch him for good than beat him down only to have him sneak up on me later and hit me over the head, stick a knife in me, or shoot me. Beating a woman or a child means you are capable of almost any atrocity, people like that belong in prison or six feet under.

 

[Actionkros]

I dont think Woodworker is getting the right advices here ...killing someone?, I mean, yes you are right guys that beat down women and kids deserve the worst, and if he reacts violent against Woodworker then it will be self defense, BUT there is the matter of conscience ... killing someone is not something than you can simply forget ...

I say just tape record the noises, call the police and let them do their job. Its good that you want to get involved, but unless you see these incidents happen in front of you dont get too involved... you can just break into the guys appartment and punch him down as then YOU can go to jail for breaking into private property and assault ....

 

[fidaï]

On ne choisit pas d'être victime de violence. C'est un cercle vicueux dont certaines femmes présentes de la diffuculté en s'en sortir surtout suite à un lavage de cerveau de la part de l'abuseur. Qui pour ceux qui sont à l'extérierur de cette situation semble être incohérent surtout lorsque cette femme retourne auprès de l'abuseur...Il s'agit de long cheminement de sa part.

L'une des caractéristques des hommes violents vis-à-vis des femmes & enfants est celle de leur peur...auprès des autres hommes !! Ils vont faire une parade de "coq" auprès de leurs copains...mais de la à se battre avec un autre...non. Est-ce l'une des raisons qu'ils se jettent sur leurs conjointes et enfants...car ceux-ci ne peuvent répliquer. Soi sans crainte.

Mais si je serai à ta place, la prochaine fois qu'il l'a bat, je t'en supplie d'appeler la police. Arrivée sur les lieux, même si elle refuse de porter plainte contre son conjoint, la police se trouve à être dans l'obligation de porter plainte contre lui. Pcq avant, trop de femme n'osaient porter plainte contre leur mari suite à une peur bleue de lui. Bref, une fois la plainte déposée, elle n'a aucun pouvoir de la retirer.

La police, dans certains cas, n'a aucun droit de divulgué d'où vient l'appel de "dénonciation"...si elle le fait elle se retrouve littérallement dans le trouble.
Jamais ton nom ne sera mentionné. Elle peu tout simplement dire qu'un voisin a appelé s'il y a plusieurs voisins..

Et toi tu auras la conscience tranquille.

Et donne nous des nouvelles.

 

[from_montreal]

What the F@#$k

Hey stop all this. Give me this bastard address and I will go tell him a few word and show him what it is to be beaten. Then I will call the cop myself to get rid of this piece of shit.

Do you want a Journal de Montreal front page with another woman beat to depth. There is nothing you can do to help this guy...he is a lost cause. You can help him all you want, he will come back or find another lady to molest.

The only thing the society could do to prevent these men to repeat their act is to have a tatoo on their forehead with the word: Women beater. This way, no other women will date him or leave with him ever.

Give me the coordinates of this guy.

Anyone that want to join me you are welcome

From_montreal....!@#$$%#%^$%&%^*W@#$%@#

 

[fidaï]

Alors toléranze zéro les femmes, c'est pour quand? Ce serait le plus beau cadeau qu'on pourrait se faire non?

Maylee

Je ne sais quand...probable...une fois

Quand la societé clamera haut et fort que cela est intolérable et inacceptabe, quand la justice arrêtera de donner des art. 810 aux hommes abuseurs...mais plutot les mettre en prison "pronto". Quand les outils pour aider ces femmes seront d'ordre publique...quand l'école brisera le silence...et quand tes voisins agiront sans se poser des questions, quand ceci deviendra un réflexe spontanné.

Là, seulement à ce moment précis..peut-être qu'une lumière viendra au bout de ce long tunnel...

Fidai

 

[fidaï]

la loi du bon samaritain..

Tu as raison quiquonque se trouve devant une situation ou une personne raisonnable aura réagie afin de sauver une vie se trouvrera poursuivie. Mai sà ceci...la jurisprudence apporte certaine nuance..

Aussi, aux USA, une jurisprudence de ce type à eue lieu. À New-York, je crois sous réserve, une femme à était tuée sous les yeux des locatairs d'immeubles qui n'ont rien fait. Même pas un seul appel à la police. Nenni.

Le procureure de l'État à poursuivi tout les gens témoins de cette triste histoire.

Cette femme criait au secours, tapait au portes pour de l'aide criait qu'il allait la tuée... Personne n'a réagit...est-ce ainsi que ce procureur lui à répondu en les poursuivants..l

 

[fidaï]

Tracy...

La jurisprudence canadienne s'inspire des pays membres du Commonwealth...plus il y aura de ces jurisprudences...plus la pression sera grande...

Cet exemple vrai, je l'ai mentionnée seulement pour illustrer la bêtise humaine...et rien d'autre.

Une victime de cette violence, qu'elle soit chinoise, qu'elle provienne de l'Afghanistan, de l'Afrique du Sud, ou peu importe quelle soit de Tombouctou, on sont fout royalement.

C'est une victime de trop. Aucune préférence de nationalité.

Mais ici c'est est un autre débat...qui est le même : les droits de L'Homme.

Sans rancune,
Fidaï

 

[Bruce34]

Been there done that

don't bother to fight him, shoot him, just make sure he is facing towards you and close enough to claim you were in fear for your life

You're a great guy Abe but to get a gun for us is a lot harder than you think. Besides, we barely know how to use it, much more where to buy it, and to get a permit is worse than passing your driver's license. I know you all carry guns like you carry your wallet, but we have none of those.
I've been there and done that.
As to resolve this problem, simply call the cops. Better yet walk to the station and make a report. Say that it is not happening now, but whoever will be working that evening, warn them that you will call the station to report.
If he beats her up that night simply say that you passed by the station already about this matter and that they should check upstairs for the disturbance.
If he comes and see you, play innocent. Say you never called and as a matter of fact if you cross the guy, simply ask him: "Hey, there were cops coming the other night, you know what happened?".
A big guy needs confrontation when he is confronted. Plus, in this case, he wouldn't beat you, simply because men who beat women are weak. They don't need to confront strangers or people who will report him or that he cannot win over. Simply as that.
Good luck buddy, we're here behind you and support you.

 

[The Woodworker]

Ahem...

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Thank you all very much for your candor... I did not expect to see so many responses this morning. But then, I should know bynow that a lot of you are early risers, which I am not

A gun? Thank you, HonestAbe, and yes, that does seem rather contrary to your nature. I detest guns and, under no cicumstances will I ever point one at someone (I know, never say never)

First, above and beyond anything else, I need to be absolutely certain, well... reasonably certain anyway, that what I have been told is true. I will pace the hall from time to time, when I know they are both here. I spoke to my upstairs neighbour, a good friend. Her son says he sees a broomstick coming down through the guys window, with the dog going nuts. Is he beating the dog, or his girlfriend? Does he beat her because she tries to stop him? Is the dog freaking because the girl is getting hit or because it is getting hit?

Both acts are despicable... moreso the dog, I'm afraid... and don't jump on me for this. My logic is that she can choose to stay away from him, the dog, pitbull or otherwise, cannot. I can not....CAN NOT tolerate violence towards animals, let alone people

My rage will get me nowhere... the point is I don't know what would happen to him if I let loose. But then, I don't know what he is capable of doing to me. No, there is no question, I will not go there, if at all, with the intention of putting all my years of training to such use. "Danielsan...Karate only to defense..."

Next time I hear the dog going nuts (because I do hear the dog sometimes, never her), I will wander up there, if I hear her, my fears will be confirmed and I will call the police. I will have no shame or fear if he finds out it was me... but I'm also not stupid, I'm sure he knows people.

I think it will take a little while before I can do anything, but I will call the police to find out if there have been previous complaints. And no, he does not deserve to be six feet under, or maimed, or imprisoned for life. He has a problem and he does not control it. It makes him unfit for society for the time being, but not an excuse for murder. I feel the rage, the anger... I want to go over there and break him... but anger begets anger, violence begets violence. There are other ways. The police, though often inept, and often tied up by legalities, must do their job. Mine, ours... is to NOT sit idly by and do nothing. Calling the police, helping by bringing the matter forward. That is the right thing to do. Fear has no place here.

Also, I believe this has been going on for years, as his neighbours have been here the longest. And believe me, once I confirm that what i have heard is true, that he has actually been beating his girl for a long time, I will confront them with everything I have. They will know and feel my disdain.

How can one live next door to such a situation and do nothing? It makes me sad... I can only hope that humanity will prevail some day and that we can all live harmoniously. And I am thankful for this board. It was a happy day for me when the "Hobby and the loneliness" thread was started. There are many things going on these days on MERB that have made me pause a little and reflect. Perhaps it has no place here, but Eager Beaver's recent comments come to mind as well as the Jeanne (Clive) affair. That thread was closed, but perhaps tangential discussions can be started. I think there is a lot of work to be done.

Have a pleasant day... all of you.

 

[naughtylady]

Both acts are despicable... moreso the dog, I'm afraid... and don't jump on me for this. My logic is that she can choose to stay away from him, the dog, pitbull or otherwise, cannot. I can not....CAN NOT tolerate violence towards animals, let alone people

Woodworker: I am suprised that you would fall into victim blaming. Blaming the victim releases the man who commits the violence from the responsibility. The question of "Why does she stay?" takes the focus off of the real question, "Why does he beat her?"


I woman who is a victim of this kind of violence is little more able to leave than the dog. Fact: Most domestic violence related deaths happen when the woman is trying to leave.

This is something that did not happen to her from the beginning. (Otherwise she would have never entered the relationship)

It starts something like this:
They have their first big fight. He pushes the limits slightly, but within a few hours is apologising, bringing her flowers and doing everything possible to make her believe that this was a one time incident. Thus a new limit is established.
They have their second fight and once again the limit is pushed (the new limit that is) and so on.
During this time he is slowly eroding away her self-confidence, self-worth, self-esteem, she starts to believe him when he says things like "If you only ... then I wouldn't get so angry", and through his verbal degradation she starts to believe it is her fault.

By the time it gets this bad, she is convinced that he does these things because he loves her, and that nobody else could possibly love her because she is not worthy of being loved. She also is likely to not have access to any money, even if she works, he controls all the finances. She also has been cut off from all her friends by this time. She feels isolated and alone. She feels guilty, fearful, powerless, and ashamed. She feels trapped and unable to leave. The longer this has been going on, the more worn down emotionally she becomes, until she simply cannot imagin a way out.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

 

[The Woodworker]

Come again?

Victim blaming? Are you kidding me? If I'm stepping up to the plate it's because she's trapped. But she needs as much help as he does, if either of them can be helped at all. They have to want the help. I'm sure you know that despite all warnings, an abused woman is likely to seek out the same type of partner again if she does not de-victimize herself.

When women fight back, they cease to be victims. When they cease to be victims they find the strength to fight back. I know something about being a victim. I know that I spent days and days asking why. Why me? Why am I so sad? Why does it hurt? Why does my life suck? Why doesn't anyone love me? Why does THIS or THAT always happen to ME?

Well, it doesn't.... HAPPEN to ME. I let it happen, I make my own life what it is. Luck and circumstance play a part by all means. But by and large, the choice is mine as to whether I am going to be a victim or not. My life sucked because I let it suck. I had no choice as a child. I had a choice as an adult.

She has a choice. She can go to the police. She can say "no more, enough". But she won't... she is probably incapacitated by now. She probably things that's the only way she will be loved.

But never mind. It doesn't matter why she stays nor why he beats her. Only therapy can answer those questions. And they are not for me to answer. What is for me to do is to act when the time is right and try to get her out of a horrible situation. But it is merely a temporary solution if she does not learn to stop being a victim. And she can only do that if she chooses to.

I was not blaming her. It's not her fault. But we do choose whether we are going to be victims or not. When the young guy or girl on the street decides that he or she has had enough. When they go to the Y (example) get cleaned up and start making a life for themselves, they stop being victims. It's not easy, but it's what makes us functioning adults.

I guarantee you that I can tell her to leave him until I am blue in the face and it won't do a damn bit of good. In fact she may even despise me for entertaining the notion (I don't know her personally, I'm just saying...). But believe me that the morning she wakes up, looks at the bruises on her body and decides she has had quite enough of that bullshit... she will act accordingly. But I'm not about to wait for that time to come. If she doesn't get out on her own for now (and I know how hard that can be) she needs to be shown the way. I may have to call the cops twenty times before she realizes she is worth more that that. And I'll do it.

But don't talk to me about blaming the victim. I know sometimes the written word doesn't convey things quite the way they are intended and I don't want this reply to seem overly passionate or angry.

In order to be helped, they need to want to be helped. She needs to stop being a victim, period. But that doesn't make it her fault, and I am certainly NOT absolving him of any responsibility whatsoever. He knows damn well what he is doing. She is a victim, yes. The day she asks for or accepts help, she stops being a victim. The day she takes action, she stops being a victim.

 

[CMA]

Hello Woodworker,

I do beleive that there is a place that you could call and they could give you good advise on what to do in this kind of situation and it's call ''Le Chainon''. Their phone number is : (514) 845-0151 and they are located here in Montreal. I know that this organism is for woman in trouble.

Hope it could help

CMA

 

[Holdmedown]

cut through the crap

bottom line is there is a domestic disturbance. Unless you can see through walls, don't try to figure out what exactly is going on - especially if there is a pitt bull on the other side.

Next time you hear something out of the ordinary and distrubing - call 911 - they will ask you for your information - respectifully decline and ask to remain ananomous. They will ask for details about what you heard and make there way over. They will never disclose who called - in fact they won't even know - only the 911 operator will.

As long as they pay him that initial visit:
1. He will know that the next time he does the same - the cops will be back.
2. The victim will be quite thankful that 'someone else' is looking out for her.
3. If he has a criminal record - the cops will at least know who he is and how to keep an eye on him.

You owe to society - now stop talking/writing and do your part - before it's too late.