New HARPER proposed ANTI-prostitution law: The END for MERB, TERB and alike ?

[miko]

The Harper government has deposit their response to the Supreme court of Canada ruling on prostitution.
YUP....as expected, this government decide to ''criminilize'' even more than before.

This time..publicity written and internet is targeted.
Most of all, in order to simplify the law suits....it is the owners of MERB, TERB and alike (ex: Quebecor owners for journal de Montreal
that will be sued).

I think every MERB and Terb members should send in a $10Cdn (we are over 265,000 members) to a law firm
so they could bring the Government to court on this.
There is a fast track to Supreme court (quite expensive)...
Who cares ?
Girls have to be able to operate in a safe way.
They have to be free to manage their career as they wish.

Miko

 

[hungry101]

I would be all for this.

 

[TheBlob]

Sight....let's fuck while we still can.

 

[Birds]

Let's not over-react.

 

[Merlot]

Hello Gentlemen,

If the law passes it seems that paid sexual adventures north of the border will be much like what it has always been to the south in the U.S.. It won't be the end of the world, it will just take a little more nerve than it used to. I've dealt with it before and so have many of us. Sorry to see the easy times may disappear, but if they do there's just a harder reality to deal with. Once things get reorganized the situation may feel much like normal, except for the possible consequences.

What bewilders me a little bit regarding us is why a safe system of internet communication wasn't setup previously? Everyone knew the this was coming. Why not have been more proactive in prevention??? According to one native Montrealer I know, the proposition is unlikely to pass. That still should not change the urgency of making sure a safe system is put into effect so that possibilities in the future will not have the kind of effect of causing the worries about this board and good communications that are happening right now.

:noidea:

Merlot

 

[Halloween Mike]

I have a fiend who just sent me a message saying that now escorting was illegal and i could end up getting 18 months to 5 years in prison i was like WWHHHHAAAT? Of could this happen so fast just like that? But let me get it right... so its the internet and journal that is targetted? And this has not passed yet right? It will take time i supose??? Is there any risk for us the customers? And finally does this has chance to pass at all?

 

[Siocnarf]

Mike, the new law is NOT passed. It has to be evaluated by a commity, voted and approved by the senate. It probably won't be ready before the end of the year, if it passes. And tell your friend that if he ever bought a gift to a girl in the hope of scoring he is also a criminal according to that bill. I am not joking.

 

[Siocnarf]

Like one of my teacher once said: you're allowed to break the rules, but you're not allowed to get caught.

There's something I don't understand. If the government can just make a law that's pretty much the same as before, what is preventing them from doing that again when this new one gets struck down?

Even if it becomes law as is, if most of the legal experts say it won't stand a challenge, will the police and judges even bother enforcing it while it's being challenged? When the similar law was passed in Sweden, there was no one really speaking against it and the government boosted the police budget to at least try and enforce it to some extent. Here and now it's quite different. I hear even in Sweden, the judges are not that impressed with that law and the conviction rate is very low.

 

[Halloween Mike]

I see, so the only way its change is if another party take power? But would they really change it? Im so depressed at this shit really. Maybe in fact it won't change much but the simple fact that it would be considered breaking the law and i would have a risk piss me off... And how about the agencies, will they have to move there website on euro servers???

 

[miko]

patron

A lawsuit by sex workers using the Bedford case as precedent is a different story.

This was my suggestion: to send in $10 each to the sex workers group fighting for their rights to be safe in their working environment.
Lawsuits to Supreme court cost a lot.
The sex worker group should take Harper's government to court as soon as the law is effective (fast track).
This is now a political fight. Mr Harper has defied again the Supreme court by tabling this law.
He showed..again a total disrespect for the court's ruling of last december.
We live in a democracy, where we can act and influence things.
$ is the tool to defeat Mr Harper's government.
Let's give the ladies lawyers all the money they need to fight for our
GOD giving right to pas an hour with the lady of our choice.
Miko

 

[Halloween Mike]

You have to maintain some sense of humor about this Halloween Mike. I am as worried about the prices skyrocketing as I am about criminalization.

Well yeah i guess it won't change much for us the customers, i mean does one clerk would really the call the police because he think you just called an escort? That would be kinda insane, also there is so many loophole that one can use... if the police burst your hotel room, you can always said you met in a bar, you where having a good time, anyway i don't feel there is much chance that this could result in me getting arrested... Even in the states, they usually arrest guys by having a female cop posed as a street walker...

I just don't like how the whole thing is happening... just the feeling of the little risk bug me...

 

[Siocnarf]

I do not want to send it to Ms. Bedford, however, since I think she is largely to blame for this cyclone of shit. You learn that it is a big world and you compromise. Canada had a great sex work system for all. So what if her S&M dungeon needed to be somewhere other than her residential neighborhood.

Criminal or legal it does not matter much for the escort scene. If it was just us, the old system was just fine. The real issue is the most vulnerable people, mostly on the streets. They are the ones who suffer most from any level of criminalization. This is the basis of the court's decision.

For humanitarian reasons, it is essential to move toward full decriminalization and that required getting rid of the old laws. If we have to have seven years of a shitty law before that then to me that is the right compromise.

 

[BookerL]

Yes, but there's no guarantee that the response of the Government at that point in time, if it still a bunch of Conservatives, would not be full criminalization (which the Bedford decision clearly indicated was a possible avenue) or the use of the notwithstanding clause.

Hi all
What would be the strategy for using the notwithstanding clause?
Can you develop that scenario further ?
Cheers
BookerL

 

[captainkirk]

Does Quebec have any ability to set laws differently in there province...like say Nevada in the US? This sounds like its going to pass....go into law.....then get struck down in the courts a few years down the road. But in the meantime the hobby goes underground. Here is hoping it doesn't pass soon....but if its anything like the US it will pass just before the other goes out. My expectation is this is a law in weeks, or in December.

 

[snoodle]

Well fuck these piece of shit politicians and their bullshit laws.

That does it if the pq is willing to overturn this shit. I will vote for quebec to separate !!

 

[BookerL]

How this would be done is highly speculative as it has never been used before at the Federal level. But it would be under the assumption that the SCC would strike one or some provisions currently contained in Bill C-36, under the basis that it also contravenes the Charter of Rights. A specific clause amending the law so that it includes wording pursuant to Section 33 of the Charter of Rights (the notwithstanding clause) would have to be adopted by Parliament.

Hi all
The parliament would invoke the notwithstanding clause to maintain otherwise a illegal law?
Cheers
BookerL

 

[BookerL]

Yes, if the Government believes that these laws, while infringing on people's rights, should be maintained for the "good" of the public (or whatever wording they want to use).

Hi all
Yes but the use of the notwithstanding clause isn't permanent there a five years expiry date !
I quote "The federal Parliament, a provincial legislature, or a territorial legislature may declare that one of its laws or part of a law applies temporarily ("notwithstanding") countermanding sections of the Charter, thereby nullifying any judicial review by overriding the Charter protections for a limited period of time. This is done by including a section in the law clearly specifying which rights have been overridden. A simple majority vote in any of Canada's fourteen jurisdictions may suspend the core rights of the Charter. The rights to be overridden, however, must be either a fundamental right (e.g., section 2 freedom of expression, religion, association, etc.), a legal right (e.g., liberty, search and seizure, cruel and unusual punishment, etc.), or a section 15 equality right. Other rights such as section 6 mobility rights, democratic rights, and language rights are inalienable.

Such a declaration lapses after five years or a lesser time specified in the clause, although the legislature may re-enact the clause indefinitely. The rationale behind having a five-year expiry date is that it is also the maximum amount of time that the Parliament or legislature may sit before an election must be called. Therefore, if the people wish for the law to be repealed they have the right to elect representatives that will carry out the wish of the electorate.[2] (The provisions of the Charter that deal with elections and democratic representation are not among those that can be overridden with the notwithstanding clause.)

The Notwithstanding Clause reflects the hybrid character of Canadian political institutions. In effect it protects the British tradition of parliamentary supremacy under the American-style system of written constitutional rights and strong courts introduced in 1982.[3] Former Prime Minister Jean Chrétien also described it as a tool that could guard against a Supreme Court ruling legalizing hate speech and child pornography as freedom of expression.[2]
What would be the interest of parliament in doing so ????
When you put Criminal Charges on someone you want them to stick not for them to be acquitted its the the hole purpose keep criminals of the street . The law needs to be solid
Cheers
BppkerL

 

[BookerL]

Yes, it's correct, the clause would have to be constantly renewed.

If a Government decides that it's not worth it to continue doing this, then the provisions hypothetically stricken down by the SCC would no longer apply.

It is a real hot potato in the hands of Prime Minister Harper right now !!!
What ever is decided there will be adversary somewhere
Can't wait to see final wording French and English because they both have legal standing !!!!
Cheers
BookerL

 

[jellydo]

If Canada enforces this law in the same manner as most countries with criminal statutes, everything will be fine ( and things will be even better once it is repealed but apparently that is a long process). The attraction of Montreal was never really the legality, but instead the great service at much lower prices than elsewhere in North America. I am as worried about the prices skyrocketing as I am about criminalization.

I don't see prices skyrocketing - just the opposite. Supply will increase as the risk of penalty is reduced for women, it is the demand in the form of guys willing to take on extra risk that will decrease meaning things will need to get cheaper. As for advertising it will be back to the old days of advertising for "escorting" in the literal sense without the explicit description of services. What really annoyed me was Peter McKay making references to "perverts" that buy sex. I would love to see that CS caught in an Elliot Spitzer moment. I can foresee a lot of service disagreements that were previously handled privately turning into the girl threatening to call the cops and the guy reacting badly. I do feel for the girls though - this profession is going to get a lot more dangerous for them. Time to brush up on German.

 

[Halloween Mike]

As for advertising it will be back to the old days of advertising for "escorting" in the literal sense without the explicit description of services. What really annoyed me was Peter McKay making references to "perverts" that buy sex

That sucks, so now i won't be able to see who does cim or not? Damn... i hope there will be a way...

As for the word pervert, well what can we say? we are in a way... im a perv im not ashamed of it