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New HARPER proposed ANTI-prostitution law: The END for MERB, TERB and alike ?

nounours_

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Jun 9, 2013
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Doc Holliday

Staying hard
Sep 27, 2003
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I don't know why everyone is getting so wound up over this matter. It's out of your hands & what will happen will happen if it's meant to be. I think the government got fed up with the sex business making huge profits & not paying a dime of income tax on their considerable earnings. You have waitresses & nickle n' dime outfits paying income tax on their earnings, yet escorts & agency owners dont' pay a dime. The government (both provincial and federal) is quite aware of this & are fed up of turning a blind eye to it with their economy suffering, the dollar dropping & possibly another recession on the horizon.

I'd be shocked if the law doesn't pass. And why shouldn't it? Because they care about the extinction of the sex trade?? If it was up to them, they'd get rid of it altogether!

Instead of stressing yourselves over a matter that is out of your hands, just take a deep breath & make adjustments to your 'hobbying' or stop hobbying altogether. I have several friends who prefer going to the Carribean, South America, Asia or Europe to hobby. Several i know used to hobby in Montreal (or Toronto) and have since put a big 'X' over those cities once they've discovered the joys of hobbying abroad.

What i'm saying is.....IT'S NOT THE END OF THE WORLD. There are other options that may even be better than the current ones.
 

hungry101

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Oct 29, 2007
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Doc, I agree but Trips abroad are expensive. Short hobby trips I like to attach to a business trip are almost impossible now that I am no longer international. It was nice to go over to Montreal one or two nights. It was nice to know that there is no way that you are going to get caught in some sting operation and have your car impounded and your name and face in the paper and your life ruined. This is always a possibility in the USA. Hobbying in Montreal gave me piece of mind. I also like the endless choices, the possibility of last minute bookings, and the young escorts that are 1/2 to 1/3 the price of the milfs available in the USA.

It may take awhile but I believe that the Nordic Model will become law in Canada and I think it will spread to the rest of the world. I think Doc is right here. Like the Dude said to Walter Sobcek, Just follow the money. The government does not have their hand in the kitty. There is little use in targeting escorts. They don't have reserves of cash. We Johns have big paying jobs, 401Ks, stocks and bonds, Roth IRAs and pensions...and all kinds of assets the government cannot tax us twice on. In addition to the Nordic Model appealing to the left as politically correct and appealing to the religious right (because any law that keeps men and woman from having sex outside of traditional marriage is a good law) this law allows the government to fleece white males. It is a win-win for any government. Adopt this and you are taking a forward look at stopping underaged prostitution and trafficking (theres that word again) and you can finally make a little money and have a platform to get reelected that resonates with the bulk of the voter of both parties.

This is gonna happen.
 

Doc Holliday

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You did leave one important component out of your economic analysis. If the law were strictly enforced in Montreal (which I doubt that it will be enforced at all for Merb like activities), Montreal the party town will lose a lot of spending that occurs from out of town and more importantly out of country tourists who buy a lot more than sex. That is a lot of GST revenue.

Valid point, but a similar arguement was made about the economic effects of losing the Expos back in the late 90's/early 2000's and yet, the local & provincial governments still let the team go. I did agree at the time (and still do) that the city & province lost a lot of tourist & taxation revenue, jobs (plus tax revenue off the players' massive salaries).....but yet, everyone turned a blind eye to the potential negative effects of MLB leaving Montreal.....and sadly allowed the team to leave. Montreal nearly lost the Grand Prix, but thank god Bernie Ecclestone was bribed into changing his mind & returned the GP to Mtl a year later. Several popular local busineses along Crescent street suffered financial woes from losing the GP for that one year & eventually wound up shutting their doors to the public. As i mentionned, the GP did return a year later, but the fact is that it didn't have to leave in the first place.
 

Siocnarf

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Jul 30, 2011
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hungry, I don't agree. The government is not going to make any money with this. So they arrest a few clients, mostly clueless clients of street hookers with a low budget. So what? The policemen are not volunteer who work for free. I can see some defense lawyers being happy, and the police can ask for bigger budgets, but this is not going to turn up a net profit for the government.

I don't see this policy working in the long run. Here and now it's just a political ploy so they can buy some time until the elections.
 

hungry101

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Oct 29, 2007
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Scionarf...I do not think that it matters that tax revenue as a whole will be less. There will be more money for the "machine" that will enforce this law and therefore directly benefit from it. There will always be enough money for the elected officials of Canada. They will not suffer. Only the ordinary Canadian citizen will suffer and when did that ever matter? And now the machine will have a platform to get reelected upon that will appeal to a broad base of people. Who among us is not against the exploitation of woman? Human trafficking? Underaged woman being forced to provide sexual services? The public will believe that this law addresses all of this even though it will force many people to reduce their living standard.

Do you not believe me? Case in point. remember the Movie "Taken." Do you remember how they portrayed prostitutes? They were young girls that were kidnapped and then chained to beds and fed heroin until they were addicted and had to have sex to earn money for the next fix. This was ludicrous. Do you know how many civilians that I spoke with that thought that was reality? I can't tell you how many people I spoke with that think that will happen if they let their daughter go to Europe. Those same civilians will think this Nordic model is the progress of a civilized society.

BTW - I panned the movie "Taken" in the movie thread and many hobbyists thought that it was a good movie. Bull Shit! It propagates a myth that certain NGOs, civil servants, government official, and LE need to survive. Just follow the money.
 

BadChap

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Feb 27, 2013
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Jesus, everyone, get a grip. The law does not repeal Freedom of Speech, Rules of Evidence (including one persons word against another), Privacy, and the practicalities of selective law enforcement in a limited budget environment.

Economics trumps politics. Even if this law is never overturned (it will be but I do not want to digress), everyone will still be able to buy sex in Montreal. Just like they can in the United States and even in Stockholm.

Well said, Patron. Long live sex, whether we pay our S.O. with gifts, etc. and pay monies to SP. Everyone enjoys good sex too; hell, it makes life worth living!

At the end of the day, politicians and LE's are looking for ways to raise government revenues - they just don't want to use the term "taxation" to do so; thus, they say fines, etc. So, as long as the monies that are paid to sex workers are shared by the Government, all will be well. It's a human rights issues for the (adult) sex workers -- their right to earn a living and be safe doing so and the LE must protect these citizens who deserve to be protected from violence and exploitation by anyone, including LE and politicians and pimps (and their own abusive S.O.).
 

Merlot

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Nov 13, 2008
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Hello all,

Economics trumps politics.

This is hardly true as a general presumption of how governments act. Historically the reverse can be true just as often. Too see it just look at China and the Soviet Union since World War II. The Soviets bankrupted themselves and political ideology was a key force in that. The Chinese had been doing much them same to where there was mass starvation and economic impoverishment. Some important Islamic nations and their leaders still do it as do some governments in the Americas and Africa. It goes on depending on leadership right down to the local town level.

But if you are referring to these two forces in the context of the contest and effect between them, then yes, economics trumps politics.

Europe is a monger's paradise. No one there gives a shit about the opinions of a radical few, or the positions of Scandanavian countries with a minor percentage of the population. No one went there to monger or even for tourism. They are getting 15 minutes of fame because the mainstream media decided to glorify prostitution and there was a backlash. The Nordic models will fail and that 15 minutes will end soon. Not a single meaningful European country for mongering, business & tourism will adopt this nonsense, not Germany, not Spain, not The Czechs, not the Dutch (who truly despise the Nordic model for intellectual reasons), not the Portuguese, not even the British whose flagship Economist magazine pushes for decriminalization.

You're over-generalizing badly, maybe because we're all so familiar with boards like this and seeing it, and seeing the attitudes here so often, makes one have a distorted perception of what everyone else may be thinking.

It would be better not to be dismissive of a few Scandinavian countries. First of all, huge social changes have started infinitely smaller, one person refusing to give up a seat on a bus for instance. Scandinavian countries are NOT lone bastions of stunted hyper-conservatism out there on the far flung fringes of social conscience and consciousness. Depicting them like some aberrant breed of people or generally alien society to sooth our fears is not helping anything. It's also deceiving ourselves. These people are as much a mix of conservatives and liberals with very open modern ideas as anywhere else. The differences would be slight, and though I am not sure how their Nordic Model law was achieved, the current results might be largely a result of better campaigning.

To color the two sides like a checker board with them red and us black is poor stereotyping. Prostitution or sexual services, whatever you call it, has always been seen with a lot of ambivalence by very large percentages of people. True, there are significant percentages of populations that have made up their minds on each side, but many see a lot of arguments that say legalize it in one perspective, but don't legalize it from the other.

It's a huge mistake to cite one magazine or those of a certain view or get opinions from like minded associates and believe that's what all the rest of the world thinks. Seeking out like minds to understand the world and how people behave is designed to fail to understand. There are many political, social, and religious philosophies that have failed by thinking that way.

As someone pointed out, full service escorting is still alive and well in Stockholm Sweden. The arrests have involved street prostitution and even then I found one documentary that said none of those arrested had served even a day in jail. But most importantly, private escorting was not really affected, which is what Merb is all about.

Let's say the law is enacted and someone here gets an escort to come to his hotel room after responding to an ad for time and companionship. Let's say after he pays her for time and companionship that they have sex for a full hour. Let's say he even writes a review afterword on a thread that had previous reviews detailing her sexual services.

Yes, there are laws then there is practicality, especially in a free internet world. No matter how this issue goes it's impractical economically to be effective by going after everyone or just clients. It's feel good politics.

Radical man-hating feminists, moralists, the politicians who cater to them, poor men and women who conduct private activities on the street (and in cars) that belong behind the closed doors of hotels homes & apartments, and idealists like Ms. Bedford and her naive attorneys who believe that laws can solve problems are irritating.

Once again it's a huge mistake to treat the anti-sex industry believers like some sort of nonsense mutant aberration. If that was so they could never get the support they have achieved to pass or even get a foothold in the legislatures with the laws so many seem to be getting a little crazy about here. These people are only those who are just more determined to act upon serious ambivalences that go on about this industry in the consciences of a great segment of the population. Conjuring them like "radical man-hating feminists, moralists, idealists" who are out of touch with everyone else is going against the firm, perfectly obvious evidence that there has been enough support abundantly proven by the fact there is a piece of legislation in the process of possible passing with a decent chance to do so that is causing all of us great concern. The existence of this thread and others proves there's more to worry about than just some feminist boogey-women and moralist demons.. Otherwise you're saying we are so sacred of a few kooks.

BTW - somewhere in another thread someone referred to our friends the agencies owners as something like insignificant low end elements within the whole engine of the sex industry. :lol: Freaking REALLY??? Is that why we thank them and praise them all the time for our fun. :noidea:

C'mon boys,

Merlot
 

hungry101

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2007
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Hello all,



This is hardly true as a general presumption of how governments act. Historically the reverse can be true just as often. Too see it just look at China and the Soviet Union since World War II. The Soviets bankrupted themselves and political ideology was a key force. The Chinese had been doing much them same to where there was mass starvation. Some important Islamic nations and their leaders still do it as do some governments in the Americas and Africa. It goes on depending on leadership right down to the local town level.

But if you are referring to these two forces in the context of the contest and effect between them, then yes, economics trumps politics.
I think you nailed it Merlot. Is political correctness and are feel good laws a good trade off for a lower standard of living? Study Cap and Trade and most of the EPA and CARB legislation. Science is rarely a consideration.
 

Siocnarf

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Jul 30, 2011
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Hungry, I do not see where the profit for the government is going to come from. A few fines a year won't even cover the salary of policemen. More funds may get funnelled into LE, but it has to come out of other budgets. It has no earning potential, apart from donations the party can get from their fans. Like Merlot said, it's just feel-good politic.
 

hungry101

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2007
5,838
546
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Hungry, I do not see where the profit for the government is going to come from. A few fines a year won't even cover the salary of policemen. More funds may get funnelled into LE, but it has to come out of other budgets. It has no earning potential, apart from donations the party can get from their fans. Like Merlot said, it's just feel-good politic.

Some departments will directly benefit but overall there will be less revenue. However, it may be better to support this Machiavellian scheme as a basis for getting reelected. Only the general populace will suffer but those in control will maintain control...even have a little more because of the new law.
 
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