Nice la Presse Article on XO this morning

[Julia Sky]

I can’t believe 12 pages later some of you are still defending them. As long as your dick gets sucked right?

Yes clients time is valuable but not more than the workers health and well being wtf is wrong with you? I think you’ll survive if someone is late or cannot see you, especially knowing XO will have a back up girl for you.

I don’t care how you try to twist it, charging $80 per late arrival is robbery and ultimately can affect the client more than anything

This. A hundred times this.

Now that I think about it, all the “she didn’t smile” “she was cold” “she was very mechanical” “she didn’t seem into it” comments I read in reviews. They’re probably because she was charge high fees at the start of her day, she was pressured to accept clients before you that she didn’t want to see and she was probably overworked

Can you imagine coming to work knowing you'll be seeing 10 clients like (username redacted) and even worse, knowing the first 5 of those 10 clients won't result in any money for you because you were sick for the last 2 days and owe your pimp a lot of money? I, too, would have a less than bubbly attitude in this context

 

[AnthonyAnderson]

Here's a suggestion for agencies who would like to set a new standard in terms of creating a more ethical industry: having a publicly visible code of conduct on your website. One part would be the client's code of conduct, the other would be the agency's code of conduct towards their escorts. This would be a way to build trust among all parties involved . Since the code would be visible, clients could ask the escorts if it really being respected, and agencies could use it as a tool to enforce proper behavior among clients. Some clients may even be more inclined to book with a agency that has a code they deemed reasonable.

Some will say I am dreaming in color–and I don't fully disagree–other may see it as a promising step towards more ethical arrangements .

 

[boboi]

Can we be transparent please...any big business regardless of industry can't grow beyond a certain size while being ethical to everyone's standards.
There's a reason why new girls prefer working for an agency, some bad (no need to repeat), some good (they need the structure).
Indys are operating under the De Beers diamond model, and fight to maintain that model... because they were making similar "shaming" comments on the SugarDaddy thread.
No, paying 1000$ an hour doesn't guarantee ethics.

 

[EagerBeaver]

I think this thread may be setting MERB post count records. 12 pages in 24 hours isn't something I recall seeing before.

 

[Julia Sky]

Since the code would be visible, clients could ask the escorts if it really being respected, and agencies could use it as a tool to enforce proper behavior among clients.

Love the idea in theory. In practice, so many clients don't bother reading websites and many don't care about boundaries even if they're spelled out for them. Also asking an agency escort if the agency people respect her and treat her right is pointless because, again, these women arent going to risk their safety, anonymity and/or income by shit talking the agency to a client of the agency

 

[Lunaseraphim]

Can we be transparent please...any big business regardless of industry can't grow beyond a certain size while being ethical to everyone's standards.
There's a reason why new girls prefer working for an agency, some bad (no need to repeat), some good (they need the structure).
Indys are operating under the De Beers diamond model, and fight to maintain that model... because they were making similar "shaming" comments on the SugarDaddy thread.
No, paying 1000$ an hour doesn't guarantee ethics.

??? Nobody in Montreal charges 1000$ the hour. LOL

 

[boboi]

??? Nobody in Montreal charges 1000$ the hour. LOL

I highly doubt that a woman with your intelligence is taking that number literally...it's a figure of speech to make a point, but you knew that already, and you were trying to discredit my statement by attacking the weakest link haha

 

[Smokemeal2]

??? Nobody in Montreal charges 1000$ the hour. LOL

It was a figure of style... Meaning paying a lot does not change much in ethics. And he is correct. Most of the girl I saw at agencies were awesome and were the ones setting their terms.

They were not paying fines or seeing 10-12 clients or any of that shit.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

I can’t believe 12 pages later some of you are still defending them. As long as your dick gets sucked right?

Yes clients time is valuable but not more than the workers health and well being wtf is wrong with you? I think you’ll survive if someone is late or cannot see you, especially knowing XO will have a back up girl for you.

I don’t care how you try to twist it, charging $80 per late arrival is robbery and ultimately can affect the client more than anything

It's shocking to me that this thread is still going on and that people are blatantly defending exploitation. And this has been turned into a "Indies suck and charge too high" comment festival which this thread isn't even about lol

A lot of indies still work for spas and agencies. By the way really often indies are told they won't be able to make it on their own.

I highly doubt that a woman with your intelligence is taking that number literally...it's a figure of speech to make a point, but you knew that already, and you were trying to discredit my statement by attacking the weakest link haha

It's an extreme exaggeration. And your way of talking about us is full of contempt. It's hard not to react.

It doesn't even work as a hyperbolic statement. Most reputable indies charge between 300 and 500. That's nowhere close to 1000, and 300-400 is much closer to an agency rate than it is close to American rates. Not only that, but the basic agency rate does not even include extras which many indies include in their rate.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

It was a figure of style... Meaning paying a lot does not change much in ethics. And he is correct. Most of the girl I saw at agencies were awesome and were the ones setting their terms.

They were not paying fines or seeing 10-12 clients or any of that shit.

No one said otherwise. Nobody here is saying that girls at agencies are not good providers or that all agencies operate under the same rules. That was one of my first comments. Once again this isn't an indies vs agency girls debate. Just don't be contemptuous. It's not necessary.

 

[TheJames101]

I think this thread may be setting MERB post count records. 12 pages in 24 hours isn't something I recall seeing before.

To be fair, it's probably the biggest news in the hobby in a decade or more - and untold numbers of members here are in some way implicated.

 

[pat98]

I am familiar with the condos where they are operating. I believe they had an agency party in 2017 in one of those condos if I recall correctly.

Hey EB, hope you’re doing well!

Just to clarify; that party actually took place in late November 2016. It was held in a nice two-story loft in Griffintown, so it’s not related to the location mentioned in the La Presse article.

 

[2fast2slow]

When you hire a service provider that looks young whether she works by herself or for an agency, there is ALWAYS a risk that you’re hiring a minor. There is no way for clients to know because no girl would show her ID to a client


When you hire a service provider that is a bit older whether she works for herself or for an agency, there’s a risk that she is exploited. Then again, there’s almost no way for a client to know that


I do not blame the people that dealt with XO as clients, there was no way for them to know the conditions in which the service providers were working. But now that you know, why are you still defending it?

Why do you think it’s ok to charge fees to women because they’re late or cancelling. Would you be ok being charge $80 by your employer when you call sick?

Not only are you not making money that day because you’re not clocking in but on top of that you need to pay your employer??

i know of at least 1 high end MP that still does that. They make the girls pay if they are late.

 

[EagerBeaver]

To be fair, it's probably the biggest news in the hobby in a decade or more - and untold numbers of members here are in some way implicated.

Very true

 

[LC18]

Can we be transparent please...any big business regardless of industry can't grow beyond a certain size while being ethical to everyone's standards.
There's a reason why new girls prefer working for an agency, some bad (no need to repeat), some good (they need the structure).
Indys are operating under the De Beers diamond model, and fight to maintain that model... because they were making similar "shaming" comments on the SugarDaddy thread.
No, paying 1000$ an hour doesn't guarantee ethics.

Ok and? Because there’s exploitation in other industries it should be accepted in an industry based on something that intimate?

We’re not talking about people mopping floors, placing cans or cutting hair. We’re talking about people having sex.

If my employer forced me to mop 2-3 more rooms after an already long day of work, I would be mad but it wouldn’t be that bad.

Being forced to have sex with 2-3 more men after an already long day of work is absolutely disgusting and no one should experience that

It has been said in the thread that some girls have been forced to work from 9 am until midnight

 

[skarsga]

Interesting takes here. I think it's not completely black and white.

This is a service industry. Making a client feel happy is good business and falls within the realm of professionalism. If a client is violent or disrespectful, having them ejected and banned similarly seems like it falls in the realm of good business and professionalism long term.

I go to a salon that rents chairs to stylists with a model that uses some penalties etc.
They rent chairs to good stylists and cover the facility, advertising, scheduling etc. In return, they take their cut. Fair trade, good thriving business, everybody is happy.

The fact that there are penalties for truancy and running late is not surprising, new or to me the real problem. Time is money - for everyone.

If a woman makes a commitment to be on the roster, the agency is budgeting an incall space or driver for her. If she cancels last minute and cannot prove an emergency, I don't think it's unreasonable to apply a penalty.

The draconian implementation, coercion, and severity in this case with xo is what is damning.
If that is industry standard, I'm appalled.

Any of the other top agencies following this thread that would chime in? There is a lot of implied and hearsay crimes being laid at your door.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Hey EB, hope you’re doing well!

Just to clarify; that party actually took place in late November 2016. It was held in a nice two-story loft in Griffintown, so it’s not related to the location mentioned in the La Presse article.

Pat, thanks for the correction. My memory is not so good. I think I was confusing that XO party with a Montreal Girlfriends party that was held in a condo on St. Antoine in 2009 or 2010. You are correct that the XO party was in Griffintown. And I am sure you are right on the month and year. At this point all the parties are sort of a blur in my head. I do remember the Eleganza party was held on September 15, 2007 at a restaurant in downtown Montreal. For a 10 year span I went to so many parties and now they are a blur.

 

[LC18]

i know of at least 1 high end MP that still does that. They make the girls pay if they are late.

Which is why I side eye people when they say “I knew agencies were problematic that’s why I only go to massage parlours”

 

[LC18]

Wait so they have 15 mins between calls but I know very well some of you will try to stay an extra 5 mins for free which means she now only has 10 mins to shower, change the sheets, empty the trash and clean the glasses you’ve used. As a result, she will have to contact the booker to say she needs more time and will be charged a late fee. I know it happens because I’ve also read that in reviews “I got there on time but had to wait 10 mins in my car”

Or she just won’t shower to save time

The more I think about it, the worse it gets tbh

 

[DetectiveBOOBS]

I had to translate the whole article because I don’t speak French. Based on some facts, girls paying 50 if late, 100 if cancel, 80 cut per client and another 80 if they cancel and a client was booked.

Many were booked back to back with no break or very little break.

I’m sure we all crossed many complaints along the lines of:
“She was a time watcher she kicked me out before”
“the alarm went off x minutes before the appointment”
“She was cold and mechanical”
“She looked tired/sad and doesn’t want me there”

Can we really blame the girls. With no break, let’s say your appointment was 5-6pm and the next guy is 6-7pm. She has no time to change the sheet, take a shower so that will be on your time unless you don’t mind being intimate on dirty sheets and a girl who didn’t shower. If she was late for the next appointment, they fine her 50$. The agency already take 80$ per hour. How much she has left?

On a sick day, she would have be fined so much more based on how much clients booked her.

there have been cases of girls being coerced to long shift from 9am to midnight. I have seen clients complaining (this girl ) works too much and is money thirsty and don’t care about customer service. If your appointment that day was 6-7pm and she had 10 guys before you, how can she be welcoming, in a good mood etc…

Those bad reviews obviously affected the girls business but can we blame them? It was the management that should be called out.

If I remember correctly xo was one of the biggest incall agency in Montreal with over 50 girls on their line up and operating for approximately 10 years. Can we take a moment of thought to many ladies who were exploited in awful conditions. Xo was voted the best agency for many years, what a joke.