Nice la Presse Article on XO this morning

[EagerBeaver]

Also, allow me to add that the power imbalance is not always in the favour of the men. Not discussed at all ever here, but how many men are lonely, depressed, isolated and desperate. They could be "addicted to sex". They will overpay and leave feeling completely empty. They put women on a pedestal and crave even the slightest hint of affection....In those contexts, which I beleive is more frequent than discussed, I beleive the women have more "power".

I agree with your conclusion that women have more power in the transactional aspect, but not as to your reasoning. I am no longer active as a client (as another poster has already mentioned), and haven't been in 7-8 years. During my prime years which were approximately 2000-2017, I was primarily motivated by a powerful libido. I frequently overpaid whatever was deemed the market rate, often felt empty afterwards, but nevertheless repeated the process because the libido was simply too powerful. I always did what I thought was necessary to make the woman I was seeing comfortable including buying gifts and booking longer dates. It was an addiction in a physical sense, although it never reached the point where it caused me any financial harm. I always stayed in my lane financially.

What happened to me is what will eventually happen to all of you. I got old, developed health issues, and the libido faded. It's actually faded to the point where I have even given up the SB sites I had dabbled in for the past however many years. I lost the desire. I do not feel any sense of loss, however. I am actually slightly relieved that the libido doesn't compel me to do it any more. I never would have imagined that I would be comfortable without sex being part of my life, but I am. It almost seemed to define me at one point, but now it's not a part of my life any more. I suppose it is since I am still here, but in the business sense, it is long gone.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

We do suck sometimes. We might think because we paid for a service, we get to own it. If you go to a restaurant and start breaking glasses, this will not be tolerated! And we're talking about human beings. I'm not pointing any fingers but rough porn seems to be normalized lately as well.
To each their own, but I don't know what fuck is up with that. Are we making a return to having submisive fuck doll is that what we want?
If you do, make sure the Sp is on board with that.

Communication before hand is key.
I dont do rough stuff. Never liked it. I had ladies ask me to switch position or to stop because... Doesn't matter the reason. Consent comes into play!
And yes sometimes we finished our time by different means. One time She got up and gave me 30min worth of my time back. It's not from me being rough, she was hurting while on top. I did appreciate it, but would never have stoop to ask.
Also, I had tremendous and horrible encounters in this hobby. It is the name of the game. I have left good and terrible reviews about sp. But i'ts not nor will it ever be about performance. It's all in the attitude, the general hygiene, or if the transaction was legit or not.
I don't aproach my waiter telling them I will leave a google review depending on gratuities or impecable service...
I do hope you girls talk to one another in order to avoid those clients.

Mainstream porn definitely has to do with the problem.. Rough porn, barely legal stuff, BDSM practices being normalized without it being actually acknowledged.. I also think the ''manosphere'' and other such things are influencing the way people about women and about these types of interactions.

I think when leaving a bad review clients have to consider certain things.. For instance it's very hard to have a good attitude if a client walks in, looking angry or upset, not smiling, not talking, jumping on you right away or refusing to shower. I've been burned so even if a client is very unpleasant, I try to smile a lot, but that is because I fear being trashed online. A lot of things should not be written in reviews, like complaining that a girl doesn't offer something, which has never been offered in her ad, makes her look bad.. Or spreading rumors. If the provider is not legit there are more than enough reasons to write a bad review, to protect other clients, but that's another story.

I don't think all clients suck at all. I'm really lucky to have clients who are really kind and gentle, who walk in with a smile and compliments, who bring me gifts, some take me out to dinner, a lot are truly interested in who I am as a person etc.. but when we talk about positive experiences, it almost seems like there is a certain type of client that gets angry that we get well treated. They think we are supposed to be fuck dolls and nothing else. This type of talk is upsetting and those of us who don't want to be treated this way feel discouraged..

Sometimes I've had bookings with clients and would get nervous ''don't you want a 2nd shot?'' and they would answer ''what? no, i just enjoy chatting with you, this is nice''. It just put so much pressure on us. The girl who gave you some of your money back maybe also felt like she had to do it and was afraid you would give her shit..

 

[2fast2slow]

I agree with your conclusion that women have more power in the transactional aspect, but not as to your reasoning. I am no longer active as a client (as another poster has already mentioned), and haven't been in 7-8 years. During my prime years which were approximately 2000-2017, I was primarily motivated by a powerful libido. I frequently overpaid whatever was deemed the market rate, often felt empty afterwards, but nevertheless repeated the process because the libido was simply too powerful. I always did what I thought was necessary to make the woman I was seeing comfortable including buying gifts and booking longer dates. It was an addiction in a physical sense, although it never reached the point where it caused me any financial harm. I always stayed in my lane financially.

What happened to me is what will eventually happen to all of you. I got old, developed health issues, and the libido faded. It's actually faded to the point where I have even given up the SB sites I had dabbled in for the past however many years. I lost the desire. I do not feel any sense of loss, however. I am actually slightly relieved that the libido doesn't compel me to do it any more. I never would have imagined that I would be comfortable without sex being part of my life, but I am. It almost seemed to define me at one point, but now it's not a part of my life any more. I suppose it is since I am still here, but in the business sense, it is long gone.

maybe you were just closer to the 50-50 ratio. Your libido compelled you, but you were never out of control, and you remained respectful to the ladies.
And yeah, i know what you mean about the libido fading. In my 30s, I once drove 1 hour after a 12 hour shift to see a girl based on a 2-line newspaper add. Now I think, "ah man, theres gonna be 10 mins of extra traffic, maybe I'll take a pass for today" lol.
This activity has defined me for so long, I wonder what will happen when my libido completely goes.
By the way that 1 hour drive after a 12 hour shift encounter ended up been a quick but good encounter, even by my current standards I got lucky that time

 

[minutemenX]

Have you read my very long comment about decriminalization versus legalization? People are not pushing for decrim because they don't want to pay taxes lol

I'm not going to repeat all of this.

Why prostitution is not yet legalized? Because poles and research repeatedly show that majority of women in democratic courtiers is against legalizing it while male population is for or ambiguous.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

Why prostitution is not yet legalized? Because poles and research repeatedly show that majority of women in democratic courtiers is against legalizing it while male population is for or ambiguous.

What does your statement have anything to do with what I said? I was talking about decriminalization, not legalization. Which polls are you even referring to? Statistics don't mean much and they are often biased. It's true that there are a lot of civilian women who have preconceived notions about sex work, but this isn't the subject.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

i disagree with that. That is a stereotype. I've been doing this a long time and most of the women i have seen are fully in control of their bodies and have made a very mature, informed and concious choice to "share" their bodies, for a "fee". Of course a lot of women have also "fallen" into the industry while NOT being in control. Both situations coexist.

Also, allow me to add that the power imbalance is not always in the favour of the men. Not discussed at all ever here, but how many men are lonely, depressed, isolated and desperate. They could be "addicted to sex". They will overpay and leave feeling completely empty. They put women on a pedestal and crave even the slightest hint of affection....In those contexts, which I believe is more frequent than discussed, I beleive the women have more "power".

Long story short, in a perfect world it would always be 50-50, but unfortunately we are not there yet. You are offering physical intimacy for a fee, I appreciate this offer and take full advantage, all while trying to be the best "gentleman" I can be.

And sharing your body for a fee is not that radical a thing. When we go see a therapist we share our most deep inner thoughts. When you get a colonoscopy, 3 medical professionals are in the room looking up you ass

I have seen massage therapists, psychologists, physical therapists, chiropractors, osteopaths, etc...None have the healing power of a good sex worker, that's power.

I'm not sharing my body.. first of all.

Second of all, I think it's really a stereotype to say that the power imbalance works in our favor ''because men are depressed and lonely''. A lot of the time, men are resentful that they have to pay for a service they believe should be free. I don't think I'm being abused by my clients, but I am not abusing them for being lonely. They are the ones who choose to answer my ad and want to seek my services.

If you think we have healing power, then maybe value our services instead of implying that we are taking advantage of poor lonely men and making them over pay............

I think we gotta be careful with these extreme discourses.

 

[2fast2slow]

I'm not sharing my body.. first of all.

Second of all, I think it's really a stereotype to say that the power imbalance works in our favor ''because men are depressed and lonely''. A lot of the time, men are resentful that they have to pay for a service they believe should be free. I don't think I'm being abused by my clients, but I am not abusing them for being lonely. They are the ones who choose to answer my ad and want to seek my services.

If you think we have healing power, then maybe value our services instead of implying that we are taking advantage of poor lonely men and making them over pay............

I think we gotta be careful with these extreme discourses.

I was responding to another poster that said "you pay someone for sex it is a kind of ''class abuse'' where you use your economical power to use the body of someone that is systemically oppressed",
and I disagreed for the reasons I stated. I never implied sex workers are intentionnaly "taking advantage" of lonely men, just that, in that context, the power imbalance shifts, that's all. If that is a problem, well i dont know what to say anymore.

 

[Verbal Kint]

Mainstream porn definitely has to do with the problem.. Rough porn, barely legal stuff, BDSM practices being normalized without it being actually acknowledged.. I also think the ''manosphere'' and other such things are influencing the way people about women and about these types of interactions.

I think when leaving a bad review clients have to consider certain things.. For instance it's very hard to have a good attitude if a client walks in, looking angry or upset, not smiling, not talking, jumping on you right away or refusing to shower. I've been burned so even if a client is very unpleasant, I try to smile a lot, but that is because I fear being trashed online. A lot of things should not be written in reviews, like complaining that a girl doesn't offer something, which has never been offered in her ad, makes her look bad.. Or spreading rumors. If the provider is not legit there are more than enough reasons to write a bad review, to protect other clients, but that's another story.

I don't think all clients suck at all. I'm really lucky to have clients who are really kind and gentle, who walk in with a smile and compliments, who bring me gifts, some take me out to dinner, a lot are truly interested in who I am as a person etc.. but when we talk about positive experiences, it almost seems like there is a certain type of client that gets angry that we get well treated. They think we are supposed to be fuck dolls and nothing else. This type of talk is upsetting and those of us who don't want to be treated this way feel discouraged..

Sometimes I've had bookings with clients and would get nervous ''don't you want a 2nd shot?'' and they would answer ''what? no, i just enjoy chatting with you, this is nice''. It just put so much pressure on us. The girl who gave you some of your money back maybe also felt like she had to do it and was afraid you would give her shit..

10% of the cients will cause 90% of the issues. And by creating fear or discomfort in Sp we stray even further from what could be a genuine moment. Where at some point it might feel like ordering from a mc menu...Fake smile, check. nervousness, check. No one wants that. Yes it is theatre, and beautiful make belief in the end. But the time, experience can be real and fulfil both parties. I do enjoy your inputs, and I do beleive it does educates or at least inform. Please keep going (If you do feel like it...)

 

[minutemenX]

What does your statement have anything to do with what I said? I was talking about decriminalization, not legalization. Which polls are you even referring to? Statistics don't mean much and they are often biased. It's true that there are a lot of civilian women who have preconceived notions about sex work, but this isn't the subject.

If any activity is not criminal, i.e. not against the law by all participating parties, by definition it is the legal activity.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

I was responding to another poster that said "you pay someone for sex it is a kind of ''class abuse'' where you use your economical power to use the body of someone that is systemically oppressed",
and I disagreed for the reasons I stated. I never implied sex workers are intentionnaly "taking advantage" of lonely men, just that, in that context, the power imbalance shifts, that's all. If that is a problem, well i dont know what to say anymore.

I'm saying that because I have heard people imply this and even say it out right many times. I had to stop talking to a friend of mine because of it. But other than that, I don't disagree, it's true that in some cases the power dynamic evens itself out, and sometimes turns in the favor of the provider.. It's just that it's not always the case, and I find that the sex workers who truly use that power are not really that common, because at the end of the day we are at the mercy of the market, just like any independent worker.

10% of the cients will cause 90% of the issues. And by creating fear or discomfort in Sp we stray even further from what could be a genuine moment. Where at some point it might feel like ordering from a mc menu...Fake smile, check. nervousness, check. No one wants that. Yes it is theatre, and beautiful make belief in the end. But the time, experience can be real and fulfil both parties. I do enjoy your inputs, and I do beleive it does educates or at least inform. Please keep going (If you do feel like it...)

You are totally right.. I feel the same way as you on this. It's not always theater, by the way. Really often I feel like my interactions with clients are genuine. I do feel like I have to perform a little or curate the version of me that the client is seeing, but when I really hit it off with someone, I am not hiding.

If any activity is not criminal, i.e. not against the law by all participating parties, by definition it is the legal activity.

No.. Legalization implies that the government is in control of the activity. It's completely different from decriminalization, which allows more freedom for everyone, particularly more marginalized sex workers. I've said this many times. For instance, if weed had been decriminalized, dispensaries would have popped up that are not SQDC, and private dealers would have continued selling without fearing LE. Now we have to go to the SQDC, and some THC products are illegal in quebec, for dumb reasons... It's also still illegal to buy weed from an individual, and I believe from somebody to grow weed and sell it.

But also I don't really understand the point you're making.

 

[LeDodo]

Looks like this thread is not about XO anymore lol.

That's merb

 

[LeDodo]

A lot of pimps are women.. and it doesn't have anything to do with "high end" or "low end". These terms don't even mean anything. There are women who pose as "assistants" but are taking a cut from the escorts they "manage" and exploit them in various ways. I think we're running around in circles honestly.

Well the latest one who had lights on her is Ghislaine Maxwell. Perfect example of decoy to gain the girl's trust.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

I'm trying to find Lea Rose's comment in which she talks about her poor experiences at agencies which she graciously does not name, to remind people what the subject of the thread is. You would think if a highly reviewed and serious provider says her experiences, she will be taken seriously. All I did was repeat what people who want to remain anonymous told me. I'm not a mod but I think this thread should be closed and we should all be going back on it and reading everything carefully and reflecting.

 

[LeDodo]

I'm trying to find Lea Rose's comment in which she talks about her poor experiences at agencies which she graciously does not name, to remind people what the subject of the thread is. You would think if a highly reviewed and serious provider says her experiences, she will be taken seriously. All I did was repeat what people who want to remain anonymous told me. I'm not a mod but I think this thread should be closed and we should all be going back on it and reading everything carefully and reflecting.

Here you go

Wow. “They will make up to you” by what ?! Making the girl works for free to you ?
God. I have work for agencies and let me tell you that it was hell. Very happy to be independent and have boundaries set for myself and not set by a guy.
Sex work is expensive. If you don’t have the money for it don’t do it.
God this thread makes me soooooo mad

 

[Lunaseraphim]

Well the latest one who had lights on her is Ghislaine Maxwell. Perfect example of decoy to gain the girl's trust.

Yes, and from what I've read and from what I've heard it's a common recruiting tactic.. or a common tactic to lower somebody's defenses in a new work place. Maxwell was also not at the top of the scheme here. This is about sex trafficking which is much different.. But I've had friends told me that female bookers acted like complete bullies at agencies. I've seen this with secretaries at parlors as well.. I remember one secretary urged me to stay later (it was already 5am) to see this ''easy client''. The guy was on a ton of coke and stealthed me. I found out later no one else wanted to see him because he did it to them as well.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

Here you go

Thank you. I want to repeat that I don't believe all agencies are exploitative in the same way XO was proven to be after multiple testimonies.
Maybe some of which aren't here on this forum. One colleague confirmed what I suspected. The bosses don't do it to all girls, they only do it to the ones that they view as easily used and manipulated. Someone who worked for XO asked someone I know ''is it normal to fuck the booker to get clients''... It's hard because nobody wants to actually show up here and give testimonies. Almost no one here who wants to comment worked for XO or wants to say something bad about having worked for agencies, and most of what is being said is repeated by another girl like me or by another client..

Anyways we have enough here to work with.. I hope you all have a good night. This discussion was really exhausting for me in the past few days, brought back a lot of memories from both my work and civilian lives, and I think I'll step out for a while.

 

[2fast2slow]

I'm not a mod but I think this thread should be closed and we should all be going back on it and reading everything carefully and reflecting.

I beleive this thread is the most interesting thread on merb in a long time, and this situation with XO has been the biggest 'eye opener" the Montreal scene has had in a long time. I believe the thread should continue until everybody has had their chance to relate their experiences and opinions and until people get exhausted. Speaking of getting exhausted...

 

[Lunaseraphim]

I beleive this thread is the most interesting thread on merb in a long time, and this situation with XO has been the biggest 'eye opener" the Montreal scene has had in a long time. I believe the thread should continue until everybody has had their chance to relate their experiences and opinions and until people get exhausted. Speaking of getting exhausted...

Maybe you're right, but it feels like a lot of people continue wanting to believe what they want to believe. I think it's good that this is creating a discussion... But a lot of the same comments and complaints that I usually see on this board seem to constantly resurface through the thread and a lot of important elements are lost because people aren't reading all of it... Do you see what I mean? It just feels like eventually a lot of people will stop participating and this will be an echo chamber..

And yes I'm exhausted.. sweet dreams.

 

[minutemenX]

No.. Legalization implies that the government is in control of the activity. It's completely different from decriminalization, which allows more freedom for everyone, particularly more marginalized sex workers. I've said this many times. For instance, if weed had been decriminalized, dispensaries would have popped up that are not SQDC, and private dealers would have continued selling without fearing LE. Now we have to go to the SQDC, and some THC products are illegal in quebec, for dumb reasons... It's also still illegal to buy weed from an individual, and I believe from somebody to grow weed and sell it.

But also I don't really understand the point you're making.

Alcohol is not criminalized but you can only buy strong alcohol at SAQ and restaurants selling alcohol need to pay for government permit. If your activity is decriminalized it must be regulated as any other economic activity. You must provide documentation (ledgers etc) that reflects your cash flow and the buisiness expenses and fill all the tax documents required for small non-incorporated business. You would also need to pay GST/QST if your activity exceeds $30K/year. For this you need to charge your clients GST/QST on top of your price. There is no way that you can avoid government control and regulations that are mandatory for any small businesses (permits, health issues etc). How you can justify that you can be free from it while hairdresser working at his salon is not. What I am trying to say is that decriminalization and legalization is the same thing.
Government would also push you to move away from pure cash operation and you should be able to accept interact and credit cards payments.

 

[Batista Mason]

The fact that they knew your first name is very spooky...
I suspect Agencies have a way of doing a soft background check.

I googled my own phone number and my full name and city came up...I had it removed by submitting a request though

Could be, I believe in my case, it was an SP who just casually said my first name when talking about me since they probably don't know my username here.

I went to re-check the PM from XO that said my first name and it was just a PM telling me an SP went to have a nose surgery and that she will be back.

But yeah, if your phone number is not private. Anyone can just type in Google and find your personal info.

I remember an SP in Nadya's VIP I met in 2017, she is very kind but also naive, she was only 20-21 years old at that time. She told me she trusted a client her phone number to chat together outside appointments and he found her Facebook just by typing her phone number in the Facebook search bar. That's also allowed him to find the identity of her SP friend because they were best friends and they had a lot of photos together. From what I remember, the client tried using that to his advantage for free services or he will expose her sex work to her family and friends on Facebook, that eventually lead her to quit and leaving Montreal after debuting around 6 months ago. After she quits, this is when I started to learn about the abuse of the booker from other SPs who were in other agency and coincidentally, Nadya's VIP stop advertising here.

Now that I am talking about Nadya's VIP, it just reminded me of another story. They managed to have former pornstar Jemma Valentine on their roster, I managed to see her only once and had a great time with her. She didn't stay long and later I saw her post on social media that she experienced something very bad as an escort that lead her to leave Montreal and she said she will never come back to this city. I think she continued her pornstar career and eventually just quit the sex business. Her last update on Twitter was in 2018.

I remember reading that Nadya's VIP bought/took control of the blue board (Merc) and any good reviews for Euphoria and XO would be deleted and get you banned. It basically turned in a Nadya's VIP advertisement.

I don't know if Nadya's VIP is still active today. I just typed in Google and now it leads me to something called Chateau Nadia but it just a wedding dress site. So I think that agency is dead after all.