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R.I.P Arturo

protagoras

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Since the beginning I have doubts about the alleged explanation of Gatti's death. It seems unlikely that he committed suicide or that Amanada strangled him. Both explanations are absurd and facts hinder that explanation. Especially if we take into consideration the fact that there was a wound in the back of his head.

This morning, reading a Brazilian newspaper, I found an article on that case (which is still unsolved for me). Here's an excerpt of that article with my translation

De acordo com o laudo da polícia, antes de cometer o suicídio, Arturo Gatti se envolveu numa briga com a mulher, Amanda Carine, confusão testemunhada por cerca de 60 pessoas. “Eles brigaram na rua. Tanto é que ele a espancou violentamente e arrastou ela por um bom pedaço da rodovia puxando pelos cabelos”, disse o delegado Paulo Alberes.

Arturo teria agredido também um vigia, que chegou a perder os sentidos, ao tentar ajudar a mulher. Algumas pessoas que viram a cena ficaram revoltadas e chegaram a agredi-lo jogando pedras e até uma bicicleta, foi quando ele ficou ferido na cabeça.


TRANSLATION

According to the police statement, before committing suicide, Arturo Gatti had a fight with his wife, Amanda Carine, a disturbance that was witnessed by approximately 60 people. «They fought in the street. The fact is that he spanked her and dragged her on a good distance on the road pulling her by her hair», said the police chief Paulo Alberes.

Arturo had also attacked a guard, which eventually passed out, in tempting to help the woman. Several people who witnessed the scene were upset and started to attack him by hurling stones, and even a bicycle, at him. It is at this moment that his head was hurt. (My emphasis)


It's the first time that I see that (pseudo)explanation. I don't know if it makes sense. One thing is sure, it could explain why there was a wound in the back of his head.
 

Techman

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Dec 23, 2004
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That's really interesting. Being hit in the head could have led to him losing consciousness at their room making it easier for his wife or an accomplice to kill him. Apparently, the second autopsy being performed here has led to discovery of bruises that were not mentioned in the Brazilian report according to news reports this morning. There is also the matter of Arturo changing his will three weeks ago along with a recent insurance policy with the wife as beneficiary.

If they had just had a huge fight, I could maybe have accepted a murder-suicide scenario happening. But not what is being claimed. Something really smells here.
 

Joe.t

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That's really interesting. Being hit in the head could have led to him losing consciousness at their room making it easier for his wife or an accomplice to kill him. Apparently, the second autopsy being performed here has led to discovery of bruises that were not mentioned in the Brazilian report according to news reports this morning. There is also the matter of Arturo changing his will three weeks ago along with a recent insurance policy with the wife as beneficiary.

If they had just had a huge fight, I could maybe have accepted a murder-suicide scenario happening. But not what is being claimed. Something really smells here.

Quote-

"Earlier this week, friends close to the Gatti family brought a computer to the Montreal police, claiming it had evidence of interest to his death. Montreal police have not searched the contents of the computer, and are making arrangements to have it sent to Brazilian authorities, Montreal police Constable Ian Lacoursiere said."

Something smells fishy to me also.
 

Techman

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Dec 23, 2004
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Quote-

"Earlier this week, friends close to the Gatti family brought a computer to the Montreal police, claiming it had evidence of interest to his death. Montreal police have not searched the contents of the computer, and are making arrangements to have it sent to Brazilian authorities, Montreal police Constable Ian Lacoursiere said."

Something smells fishy to me also.


Now that seems like a really intelligent move. Police here don't check the computer at all and send it off to the incredibly honest Brazilian authorities. Any bets they find nothing at all?

I hope that someone made a copy of the hard drive before turning it over because there won't be anything on it when they get it back. If it comes back at all that is.

Are people really this stupid? :confused:
 

EagerBeaver

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Techman,

Let's not forget that Gatti's death happened in Brazil, not Montreal. The Brazilian cops may be the Keystone cops or whatever else you want to call them, but they have jurisdiction over the investigation of the crime, and official evidence in a criminal investigation should not be touched except by the LE which has jurisdiction over the investigation. You may recall a few years ago when those two American boys fell to their deaths in the quarry in Laval, the families wanted the FBI to come in and investigate because they had no confidence in the competence of the Laval cops. Well they had no choice because it was the Laval cops' crime to investigate. And the Montreal Police Service is going to have to defer to the investigation by the local cops in Brazil. It's their crime investigation to either botch or solve.

The only exceptions are when the local cops ask for help. I have no knowledge of the Brazilian cops having asked the Montreal police, you or Eastender for help in their investigation. They very well may need your help, but unless they ask for it, nobody touches a computer that may be evidence in a possible commission of a crime.

By the ways, I know an attorney who went to jail for advising a client to erase contents of a computer that was evidence in a criminal investigation. The client was the company that owned the computer; one of its employees downloaded child porn onto it. Attorney advised client to erase the downloads, computer was seized by LE, and when the forensics came back the attorney was charged with destruction of evidence and did time in jail. And he is a damn fucking good criminal attorney.
 
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metoo4

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Mar 27, 2004
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Techman, you're right, it sucks!

But legally, there's nothing else they can do since there's no police inquiry happening in Québec. If they would search the laptop, nothing they could find would be admissible because, since there's no inquiry (enquête) in Québec, they can't get a warrant to search the laptop.

On top of that, they could be accused by the Brazilian authorities of tampering with evidences.

If the Brazilians find something on that laptop that warrant the assistance of the QPP or that justify an inquiry here, then the laptop could be inspected by the QPP.

That sucks in this situation but that's the law.
 

Techman

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Dec 23, 2004
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EB, I have no faith in the honesty of the Brazilian police force. I believe that they are corrupt as hell and no matter what is sent to them, they will not overturn their decision. This is the reason I hope that the originator of this system had the forethought to clone the hard drive before handing it over to the authorities. The system will probably end up 'disappeared'. :rolleyes:

And the Montreal Police have no need of a warrant if the owner of the laptop gives them permission to search it. And it has not been declared official evidence in any investigation as yet.

As far as your attorney is concerned, he may be a good lawyer but he should increase his computer knowledge when it comes to destroying computer files. A simple delete won't do it. He got what he deserved.
 

EagerBeaver

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And the Montreal Police have no need of a warrant if the owner of the laptop gives them permission to search it. And it has not been declared official evidence in any investigation as yet.

That's true, but the owner of the computer is dead, and it is unlikely that his will has even been sent to Probate at this time. So it is unlikely anyone can legally do anything other than turn it over to the Brazilian cops. Again, the Montreal cops are not going to do a search on evidence, with or without the owner's permission, if someone else has jurisdiction to investigate the crime in which the computer is evidence.

It does not necessarily have to be declared official evidence to be off limits. If the Montreal cops called the Brazilian cops and told them a computer had been turned over to them, all the Brazilian cops have to do is say it is possible evidence in our investigation, and don't touch it. If they ask the Montreal police to do a search, then it would be a different story.
 
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