Real talk : how many girls are mistreated?

[Birds]

We often hear that "escorts are victims" from the medias and politicians. In my several years of being a customer, I never had proofs that any of the girls I met were victims. I don't know them. I don't know about their personal life and their relationships with their agencies or boyfriends. Do they have pimps? I have no idea. Are they mistreated? Are they forced? I don't know.

Obviously, talking of this subject with the girls is a waste of time. They would probably become angry about it.

There are signs that I see frequently though, that make me question if girls are mistreated. One thing is girls who have names tattooed on them. I heard pimps do this to brand the girls. If that is really the case, then I find it really disgusting. Not only it is degrading for the girls but also a turnoff for the clients.

Another sign that I see quite often is girls who have scars. They sometimes have small scars on their body. Recently I saw a hot chick with scars on her breast that could have been caused by cigarette burns. Those scars could be caused by violent pimps or clients. Once again, I have no proof of anything.

Another thing that I find strange is when white, french-speaking Quebec girls work for agencies ran by Arabs and other types of immigrants. Once again, I have no proof that they are mistreated.

After all, many girls willfully date violent douchebags and take a lot of drugs. But if this is what they want, then they are hardly victims. But I am wondering about how many girls are mistreated or forced to do this job in slavery-like conditions, if this is frequent or not. A lot of people claim that girls are mistreated, but it is hard to tell if they say this just to push an agenda or if they are ignorant. So what is the truth?

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

I think only a SP could answer this question the rest of us could only guess as you have.

 

[hungry101]

You know this is a good question. I really enjoy talking and getting to know the girls. I have had some heart-to-heart conversations with the girls that I really connected with. We have spilled our guts to each other. I can remember talking with one of John's stars at Eleganza. When I asked "Why did she get started escorting?" She said "I was sick and tired of of living this crappy life with nothing." She went on to explain that she had an entry level job and she didn't have nice things. I said then did John recruit you and she laughed "What recruit me? I answered an add and started the next day." We split a bottle of wine and laughed and She said that she wasn't having fun anymore and so she cut back her hours. we had kept in touch until last year. No one forced her. No one abused her. She needed the money and that was it.

This is a very similar discussion that I have had with several other Montreal SPs. They do not have very good paying jobs and they want the things that the marketers and fashion designers say that they should have like a Gucci handbag and designer shoes etc. and so they escort. They like sex and so why should they not get paid for it?

If they want to stop prostitution it seems to me that the PM of Canada could do more by helping the economy along so the girls would have access higher paying jobs. Parents could steer their daughters in the direction of the sciences or engineering fields for example so that the daughters of Canada could learn a skill that someone would pay good money for. These kids fall prey to the mass Marketing that tell them that they need to have a 500$ pair of designer jeans and a 300$ pair of heels and a 700$ handbag. You can't get this by waiting tables.

From what I have seen, escorting is a good way for these young women to make cash money quickly. It does not require a higher education. You have flexible hours - you work when you want to. You can finally buy nice things and you can afford to travel. Girls change agencies and get fired and rehired or lured away in much the same fashion as we Johns change jobs. They have arguments with the agency owners in the same way that we Johns take issue with upper management in our jobs. I have never suspected that anyone in Montreal was "trafficked" or "forced" into prostitution. Of course that is not what the public will hear from the feminists and non-governmental organizations that are out to save these poor girls from themselves. If they told the truth about prostitution there would be no more grants and donations.

 

[EagerBeaver]

So what is the truth?

The truth is whatever a person subjectively believes constitutes exploitation, which is why MacKay's speech to the House of Commons was laden with judgmental words like "victim" and "exploited". He would have you believe they are all exploited victims. Others will tell you that they are 100% exercising free will to make choices that they have made. The truth is somewhere in between, and is a highly subjective assessment in each case. Since you will never know all of the facts in each case, it is a waste of time to try and make sweeping judgments that apply to all, as MacKay has done.

I am sure there are some Nova Scotia members here that voted for this deuchebag. Are you proud of yourselves?

 

[Siocnarf]

One thing is girls who have names tattooed on them. I heard pimps do this to brand the girls...

That doesn't make any sense at all. Why would a pimp incriminate himself by writing his fricking name on his victim? What would even be the point? It's not like they're cowboys herding thousands of identical cows across the prairies.

...Those scars could be caused by violent pimps or clients.

Or police brutality or a violent boyfriend or self-inflicted. Once again, I seriously doubt that most abusive pimp would do anything that could attract unwanted attention or incriminate them.

I'm not trying to be dismissive of the concerns, but I think the situation is much more difficult than Hollywood-style clichés.
(1) I think most exploitive situations when they exist in sex work are psychological and hard to identify by untrained people.
(2) If someone is physically abused, it does not mean that it is related to their jobs.

This is the truth: records of police arrest show that underage or forced labor is a very small fraction of prostitution cases.
If you have concerns that someone might be abused, I would contact Stella and tell them about it. I would only contact the police directly if I am almost certain there is a crime. A false alarm might backfire and put me or the woman in trouble with the law instead. Thank you Harper!

 

[Siocnarf]

I agree this business should remain discreet, because sex is after all a private matter. But that is no reason to let ourselves be stigmatized and pushed into clandestinity by these control freaks. They had to accept black people, they had to accept other religions, they had to accept homosexuals, now they have to accept us. From what I hear from the general population, most people don't mind about escorts (at least around here), so long as it's between consenting adults. Prohibitionist have to keep repeating lies, and every time their lies get more ridiculous and less and less people believe them.

By the way, almost all grant-funded scientific research support decriminalization. As far as I know there's not one peer-reviewed research that says anything positive about the Swedish model. On the other hand prohibitionists use bogus ''studies'' with no sound scientific methodologies. The SCC rejected some of the ''expert'' witness of the crown because they were full of shit. Harper doesn't listen to the truth, but at least the supreme court does. It might take a few more years but it will be decriminalized soon enough.

 

[daydreamer41]

I have yet to meet an SP who was forced to do what she was doing. I have met SP's who were: a graduate student at an Ivy League scool; a medical student who was accepted to a combined pre-med / med program, many undergrads, and plenty of girls who never set a foot in a college or university. But most had an idea of how long they want to last in the business. Some did not, but none ever expressed fear of their agency or quitting if they had to.

Most escorts from agencies go from one agency to another.

I have run into one or two girls who i thought may have had a drug problem. In both cases, i did not engage. I think a woman can be exploited through drugs and a nasty pimp, but I have not seen that situation from a well known and respected Montreal agency,

 

[Siocnarf]

But very few people benefit from prostitution.

People said the same thing of black people, homosexual, Rock&Roll, etc. before they were accepted. In fact, most people are fascinated by prostitutes and you certainly have tons of them portrayed in books and films. Not always realistically but often in interesting and entertaining ways. It's a very popular fantasy, even for those who are not interested in it for real. Married couples role-play the client/hooker scenario (just as we have escorts role-playing as the GF ).

It's true most people can't tell the difference between a real study and some junk science. But a lot of journalists and editorialists, at least here, show good critical thinking. Scientific facts always remain true once they are discovered, but lies have to be repeated and reinforced constantly and eventually they break down. The new law is getting a lot of flak and most citizens do not buy the government's arguments. I think prohibitionists are digging their own grave with this law.

The more people see sex workers protesting for their rights, the less they will believe the lies. That's why it's good that they don't try to hide anymore.

 

[Siocnarf]

They can come up with any kind of justifications, these still have to be compared with the harm the laws has on the prostitutes. That is the first concern of the court.

Now it's even worse then before: not only are prostitutes doing something legal by selling, they are also considered victims. You have a law that puts dangerous restriction on a legal seller, but that also puts a ''victim'' at higher risk of violence. I don't think there is anything that could justify that in the eye of the court. Even supposing we had great exit programs, it would take a long time to ''rescue'' everyone and meanwhile they would suffer unacceptable harm.

It's like if they had a law that they hoped might reduce rapes, but would make it more dangerous for victims of rape when it does happen. There's no way they can defend that.

The SCC cannot tell the government what to do. They can only rule if the law is legal or not. However, during the Ontario Appeal court (before SCC), judge Himel said that new laws were not needed. Right now, public opinion is very negative toward the new law. When this one get struck down after another expensive legal battle, if the next government does the same thing again it would be political suicide. They will have no choice but to accept decriminalization.

 

[anon_vlad]

I agree with Patron that the abolitionists don't like:
1) Older men having access to sex with young women
2) Older men not being interested in women their own age
3) Young women who earn more money than they do through prostitution

I can't stand people who approve of government control of anyone's personal life, but they aren't entirely wrong in disapproving of prostitution.

I am not at all attracted to women my own age due to easy access to escorts. I wish I had the money I have spent on escorts during the last ten years. I have had many wonderful experiences, but have regrets at ever having started.

I have met some very intelligent escorts who I believe could established lucrative careers had they remained in school rather than turned to escorting for the lifestyle.

The enactment of legislation may restrict my choices and otherwise make "hobbying" more difficult, but will not stop me. Over the years, a couple of my female employees and even women I just met (who would be outraged by being called prostitutes, despite the definition of the word) have offered me sponsorship arrangements.

 

[Doggyluver]

I thought I'd weigh in on this topic and give my opinion. Over the years I have had conversations with SP's as to why they are in this business and what prompted them to start. I have also posed the question about pimps, here are a compilation of the answers given to me over the years. It should be noted that I lived with a former SP for 6 years so had the opportunity to have a lot of my questions answered by her as well.

For the most part it is money and and easy way to earn with little effort on the girls part. As one said to me, I'm probably going to end up fucking somebody today so why not get paid for it. Some of the girls told me quite openly that it was a way for them to pay for the drugs that were costing a fortune and in the case of one girl she told me she had stolen from family, friends, boyfriend and co-workers to pay for an expensive drug habit and that by turning tricks she was able to fund the habit. Sad but true. For the most part the girls I meet are working for agencies and yes the agency is their pimp. The agencies pay protection to the street gangs who then leave their girls alone. In the case of a girl working for a pimp, he takes care of her, gives her the drugs she wants, feed her houses her and she works for him. Not a perfect situation but for the most part they are not held prisoner and are free to leave when they choose. In the end we all work for someone and for those who work for a large corporation, who then is the pimp in your life. These girls don't have an easy time but as one girl at an agency told me, she is free to refuse any client who knocks on her door, the owner of of the agency is in agreement that the girls should NOT have to service a client they are not comfortable with, Old or Young ! I did have an escort tell me that even though her boyfriend knew what she was doing it eventually caused the breakup of their relationship, the reason, the job affected her libido. After spending a day servicing clients for $$$ when she came home the last thing she wanted was to have sex with him. As a result he got less and less even though she was having plenty, eventually he went elsewhere for his needs causing the breakup. I think the women who work independently and see a couple of clients a couple of days a week have a much better chance of maintaining their sanity and surviving the business.

 

[anon_vlad]

I found this striking: Every single one of the escorts who discussed her family situation with me said that her father had left before she became an adult.

 

[lgna69xxx]

I have heard that from one or two sp's that brought up their personal lives but thats it. Actually, one sp asked me for a ride home the next morning to her mom and dads place. One other time another sp's dad called her as we were getting comfy lol, she was a very fun girl! I know quite a few sp's that come from good backgrounds and have loving parents, then again i know many in the business dont have that luxury.

I found this striking: Every single one of the escorts who discussed her family situation with me said that her father had left before she became an adult.

 

[Doc Holliday]

The majority of the escorts i've met over the years have come from broken homes. Many were abused by a family member or acquaintance as a child. Many were raised by single moms & their father was no longer around during their upbringing. Even though most all entered the business because of financial reasons (replying to ads, recommendation by friends/colleagues who escorted, etc), the common denomination has always been the fact many have had a very unhappy & unfullfilling childhood.

Even escort agency owners i've met who were females came from broken homes. And yes, all of them had been in the business (as an employee) in the past before eventually moving on to the operating side of the business.

I've had several escorts who appeared to me as being as normal as anyone else i'd met in my life tell me that escorting has actually given them a better self-esteem of themselves. Many have grown with low self-esteem & enjoyed being praised (and complimented) by clients once they became escorts. Sure, the money was nice, but getting an ego boost on a regular basis was also quite appreciated. Many have also told me that they've enjoyed the fact they met people (clients) they likely never would have had the chance to meet in their lives: wealthy clients, wealthy businessmen, politicians, lawyers, singers, actors, athletes, etc. Many have also told me that most of the guys they'd met during their teenage years were all scumbags & losers for the most part who were never nice to them, and it was enjoyable to be treated well & respected by clients for once in their lives. That escorting showed them men are not all scumbags & users after all, that there are actually some good men out there. Of course, many paid their way through school by escorting.....many were also single-moms who wanted to improve their well-being (and their child's) finanically....so escorting was a good option for them.

One of them, whom i befriended, had started her 'career' in Europe. The agency she worked for at the time was a high-end agency who cathered mostly to the creme-de-la-creme of the industry. Most of her clients were very wealthy & powerful people. Wealthy businessmen, politicians, athletes, celebrities, etc. It was quite an eye-opening experience for her & what an experience (and $$ addictive) it was!! She told me that the person who had taught her the most about how to please men (that deep down, it has nothing to do with sex) was her 'madam', who had thought her everything she knew about how to make love to men, what to say to them, how to press the right buttons, how to manipulate them, how to make them feel great about themselves, etc. She also told me that what she had gained the most from the business was a higher self-esteem of herself.

Quite a few girls also told me that they got hooked by the power of being able to use their sexuality to control men & basically get what they want. Another girl (a bombshell!!!) told me that she and her best friend one day decided to make money off of having sex. They regularly would get picked up by guys at clubs on weekends & wouldn't get anything out of it. So they figured "hey, why don't we become escorts & at least make some money from having sex instead of giving it away for free?" I couldn't argue with her logic. And finally, another girl (her friend) told me one day that what she enjoyed the most out of that 'job' was the rush she'd get from walking up to a hotel room door & knocking on it, not knowing who'd be answering. Her words: "Wow! What a rush it gives me!!!"

 

[Lily from Montreal]

How strange..that's the only part I really don't like...And it is even worse when I am the one waiting for the knock...

I guess I am not your average escort?...

Doc? I could not help but notice the ''appeared as normal as anyone else....'' insert big sigh here...

 

[jeff teliska]

Fatherless girls

Anon_Vlad could not be more right.
I have noticed exactly the same thing with strippers and escorts.. No strong father figure to look up to.
Every time i date a girl who's father was not around I know there will be issues down the road..
But on the flipside they are the easiest to impress..
Ask the pimps..

 

[Jaxan]

And it is even worse when I am the one waiting for the knock...

I'm pretty sure I'm more nervous than any of the girls who knocked on my door... lol

I guess I am not your average escort?...

Most definitely

 

[wasisname]

I'm pretty sure I'm more nervous than any of the girls who knocked on my door... lol

It never occured to me before. Even when going to the door of someone who has face pics and is well reviewed I get a touch of the nerves before the door opens. I can't imagine how it must be on the other side.

I suppose especially if you have been doing it away you can reframe it as adventure of finding out what wonders happens next but antici


pation kills me.

 

[Maria Divina]

That's a real puzzling question. I would like to know also.

I have met and talked to maybe, around 50 ladies & girls... and much more gentlemen.

Some ladies/girls were in a couple and even happily married... and I have met just one girl who I have heard that she was having a pimp; she was making him live, and pay for all he ever wanted to have, and he was not working by himself at all. A real one, abusing her physically also, when he was mad. She was very young and a very popular escort in an agency, many years ago. She is not active anymore. But, she was the girl who was having a very bizarre attitude, like she was having a double personality... That's all I can say from my experience for one girl on about 50.

And about what is next, I can't confirm nothing about it, because just one man/hobbyst talk to me about it. I have heard about agencies who were pushing the girls to stay entire "shift" and were helping their girls to stay awaken all night and to be full of energy all their shifts, by offering "stimulations". Was it something real? or just bad mouthering after a bad dealing with the agency? Or a bad mouthering from one girl, I don't know. And this agency is not anymore in service. So, that's all I have heard in 7 years.

Anyway, sooner or later, I imagine girls will be talking when they are badly treated. We are in a modern society in Quebec where girls/ladies don't accept to be badly threaten. So, a lots of people should know who are the good and the bad people around, and I am having the impression that a lots of people are wondering where are the abused people in this industry. From my own experience, that's something really rare, like I already said.

The most fantastic about this question... is the ladies I know, the gentlemen I know and me... who are wondering where is the majority of bad threaten people of this "underworld" are? And this is not one of us, as it seems. So where is the majority of abused ones that the gouvernement is trying to "protect and save" with his last propositions for future laws?

 

[str8flash]

I have met just one girl who I have heard that she was having a pimp; she was making him live, and pay for all he ever wanted to have, and he was not working by himself at all. A real one, abusing her physically also, when he was mad. ...
Anyway, sooner or later, I imagine girls will be talking when they are badly treated.

I don't know for escort, but a girl under 20 years old working in a fs club is having a pimp for sure.
Do you really think a girl at that age is gonna wake up one day and say to herself: I want to suck old dicks in a strip club for money.
I used to be a driver and had girls counting money in front of me at the end of their shift up to a thousand dollars.
The saddest part is they didn't have 25$ to pay for their ride when i went to pick them up the next day...