rude retail person

[magasinage]

continued...

Now, on the other topic brought up by Gorsky:

Gorsky, you totally lost me:
“UK, US, Canada speak a difenrent (sic) English form one to the other”…

Of course I would NEVER in a million years dream of asking anyone to conform to me…. Language evolves differently in different countries for many different reasons. There is no one correct form of English as there is no one better form of Spanish. The Castilian spoken in Spain is very different (and is different in different regions of Spain) than the Spanish spoken in any given Latin American country. Is one better than the other? NO… of course not. History molded the language in each country. Is Québécois different than the French spoken in France? Of course it is. Is it less ‘valid’? Definitely NOT! Nor is the French spoken in any of the other francophone countries identical to the French from France and neither is their flavour any less valid than the French from France. As a matter of fact the French from France is NOTHING as it was when Samuel de Champlain was here. It evolved in France and has evolved here – in different directions with the same grammatical structure, different accents and different idiomatic expressions… just as the English language has evolved differently on different continents and in different nations. This is simply normal. So forgive me… I must have misunderstood your question and if I did not misunderstand then the answer is simply: NO and more complexly …no, never would I even want them to change. They are a Nation and they speak their language and in English Canada a different variety of English has evolved as in French Canada French is spoken which is different than the French spoken elsewhere but that remains French for all intents and purposes. As a matter of fact the Québécois make less grammatical errors and have less ‘anglicisms’ in their everyday speak than do the French…

 

[Gorsky]

And Gorsky and magasinage...show me one other country that has laws that effectively outlaw other languages the way we try to do to English in Quebec.

BTW Quebec don't outlaw the english or any other language...

And to answer your question about to show you at least one state in a country doing it the same way that we are doing it here, it is easy...

Catalunya has a similar law on Catalan

The passing of the Law of Linguistic Normalisation of Catalonia
in 1983 saw the definitive release of the Catalan
language for the normalisation and extension of the social
use. This law, a landmark in the history of Catalan language
policy, set out norms and grants to facilitate and implant the
Catalan language in public administration, teaching, media
and cultural life in general to guarantee its social promotion.
As a result of these actions, comprehension and use of the
Catalan language have increased considerably, both in absolute
and relative figures


Techman, where do you work? I want to get served in Spanish by you... After all, I'll be right since I am a customer. I might bring my friend coming from Bangladesh which will want to get served in Bengali since he is also right...

I am bilingual ,but this is still Canada, Quebec is not a country yet.

Strangely, this sentence has 2 problems!! On your previous post, you are asking for an other country than Quebec but here you are saying that Quebec is not a country.
On your previous post, you are also saying that you are English and the courses are only offered in french elsewhere in Quebec but if you are really bilingual then you don't have to move to follow a course you can take it from where you are living

 

[magasinage]

Actually, you don't have to go very far, right here in Canada, in 1912, the province of Ontario passed Regulation 17, that completely interdicted the teaching or the usage of French in their schools. That regulation was only repealed in 1927.

I guess the damage was done by then !

Wow! Je n'étais pas au courant. Merci pour l'info.
________________________________________________________

 

[Gorsky]

.... neoliberalislm at its best.... “it's a business question” can also apply to exploitation and slavery. The little Chinese girl tied to her sewing machine, with a potty under her station ensures a lower cost t-shirt is produced which is good for my bottom line. Gorsky, identity is deeper than dollars.

I guess you were saying that to Techman since I didn't talk about dollars...

 

[Gorsky]

Now, on the other topic brought up by Gorsky:

Gorsky, you totally lost me:
“UK, US, Canada speak a difenrent (sic) English form one to the other”…

Of course I would NEVER in a million years dream of asking anyone to conform to me…. Language evolves differently in different countries for many different reasons. …

We are saying the same thing but you expressed it more clearly.

 

[magasinage]

We are saying the same thing but you expressed it more clearly.

Sorry....

 

[Techman]

Actually, you don't have to go very far, right here in Canada, in 1912, the province of Ontario passed Regulation 17, that completely interdicted the teaching or the usage of French in their schools. That regulation was only repealed in 1927.

I guess the damage was done by then !

Yup...lets go back almost 100 years to find an example here in Canada. That's really pertinant to the discussion.

BTW Quebec don't outlaw the english or any other language...

Really? Then why can't a company have it's internal documents in English or any other language than French?

Techman, where do you work? I want to get served in Spanish by you... After all, I'll be right since I am a customer. I might bring my friend coming from Bangladesh which will want to get served in Bengali since he is also right...

I'm talking about the two predominant languages in CANADA! Not every language on the face of the earth. Although I could easily find someone to serve you in Spanish if the need arose, as well as Chinese...Mandarin and Cantonese, Japanese, Polish and German. But I wouldn't expect to be served in any of those languages in a regular store in a shopping center. I would expect to be able to get service in either English or French here in Montreal, Canada however. I wouldn't have a problem if I was passed to another employee, or even if the sales person explained that they were not able to provide service in the language I choose. But simply refusing to speak English without any attempt to explain the situation is just plain rude.

This is NOT a language issue… it is an IDENTITY issue.

When you are in a service position, you're own identity takes a back seat to providing the service which you are employed to provide. Should someone have the right to refuse service to a potential client based on their religion or race? Give it a try and find out how long you have a job. Besides, if someone is so insecure in his identity that they can not do their job properly, maybe they should never leave the house.


And of all the examples that have been posted about the promotion of various languages...how many of them have effectively banned another language from use? Promotion is one thing, and it is to be commended, but actively attacking another language is not something to be proud of.

Techman

 

[Gorsky]

Really? Then why can't a company have it's internal documents in English or any other language than French?

Strangely, it seems that I worked for outlaws since EVERYWHERE where I worked I saw external/internal/official/unofficial papers in english only...

The only thing that I know of is that something that affects all employees has to be at least written in french but there is no problem it is in french and <other language> as long as the french text exist in the publication. The other papers can be written in whatever language you want...

 

[magasinage]

For Maria Divina

Hola maja,

Tengo dos numéros de téléfono para ti...

tu buzon de PM esta lleno!!!

si tu veux les numéros vide ta boîte de PM et je déposerai l'info là...

Ciao

 

[Gorsky]

Jejeje

Debo haber cogido el ultimo sitio por las mismos cosas

 

[Dee]

It is also useful to make comparisons with other provinces.

Saskatchewan - all provincial laws are in English only.

I don't argue with your point (reference my earlier post) but I refer you to this link as a matter of interest:

http://www.publications.gov.sk.ca/deplist.cfm?d=1&c=92

 

[magasinage]

Maria Divina - cours d'español

Pas pire du tout Maria!

Je t'ai donné deux numéros (PM)... Espero que puedan ayudarte a realizar tu sueño de poder comunicar en la lengua materna de tu padre…

Saludos distinguidos… y un abrazo de mi parte y de la parte de mi esposo

 

[knockermocker]

By the way I am not fluent in French and should NOT have to go out of my way to take courses because I am English (mother Tongue) ,while a francophone skips hops and jumps a bit to get to their school across the street!!!!!


I was talking about Canada the country.

Still the same old garbage , u really don't get the point!!!!

Go have dinner with Marois and Duceppe and tell them go to HELL from me.

No sense in talking here ,it's all the same bullshit.

My father has a business in Ontario ,and really does not understand any of the things that go on in this province.He just shakes his head, because people don't use their heads here they use their mouths first.
Oh by the way he was born in Ontario and speaks Fluently in Both Languages.
He just doesn't like the way they go about things here, always ass backwards lik some of these opinions on here!!!!

Unbelievable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[magasinage]

knockermocker : deep breaths.... deep breaths....

I agree with you.... there is no point in taking this any further. Your position is set in stone. Somehow, I went from standing pretty close to you in your pile of granite, having shared your position for many years... to a more nuanced view of things. The existence of a 'multinational state' (here or elsewhere) is quite clear to me today and with this existence I feel that the stone I used to stand on... crumbled under my feet... opening a whole new vision of things for me.

Have a great day knockermocker ....

 

[Gorsky]

By the way I am not fluent in French and should NOT have to go out of my way to take courses because I am English (mother Tongue) ,while a francophone skips hops and jumps a bit to get to their school across the street!!!!!

So, you are NOT bilingual and why say that you are.

What do you think the poor french canadians have to do outside of Quebec? Rare are the schools (specially universities) that are in french outside of Quebec. Look how easy that is to turn your big argument around!!

As for your father, it is not because he doesn't understand something that you have to close your mind and wear blinkers. My father would hang PQ, gays, etc. but shoudl I have to wear his blinkers? NO

If you don't feel ok that Quebec is mostly french then why are you here? It is not good to live at a place where you don't feel ok with...

 

[phill]

Don't worry guys - we, francos, have been colonized, still are, and will be for generations to come. We will always be afraid to take our affairs into our own hands.

 

[Techman]

Isn't anyone else tired of re-hashing this discussion every couple of months? And why do people insist on continuing to compare what happens here with other parts of Canada or the world? It is not relevant! Just take a look at what's happening at the moment with bill 104... the government is preventing French Quebecers...Quebecois...from having the choice to educate their children the way they choose! Camille Laurin once gave an interview stating that one of the goals of bill 101 was to eliminate English public schools and within a decade or two, this will have been accomplished. It isn't the French language that is in danger here in Quebec...it's the English language. English school enrolement has dropped from 250,000 to 100,000 in one generation. Why do you think that it's so hard to put kids in English school? Eventually the ruling government will claim that numbers no longer warrant an English language school board and the goal will be achieved. So tell me again how much the French language is in danger here.

 

[eastender]

Football and the French Language

In the August 31,2007 JDM there was an article by Serge "Birdie" Vleminckx about how football is becoming more and more an English sport at the Quebec University level. Seems that football practices at the French universities - U de M, Laval and Sherbrooke are conducted more and more in English because the basic terminology of football is English. Also learning football in English at the university level facilitates the transition to the CFL for drafted players.

Unfortunately do not have a link for the article but should one appear in the next few days will do my best to post it.

The gist of the article is that a Win / Win situation has evolved at the universities in question.

 

[Techman]

EE, that's a great example of how people of both languages can work together to the benefit of all concerned. If only more people could learn that lesson.

 

[Gorsky]

Like I said poor english people in Quebec...

Pray for them...

English will still be used because 1- there is far more people around Quebec talking english than french 2- it is the business language 3- even with the laws french is losing ground to english.

On the other side, english is losing ground to spanish. Now that will be funny to see the same people complaining about the french laws saying that they need to do their own laws to prevent the progression of spanish (ok it is in the US...)