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Some women are considering the 4B movement - Hopefully not in Canada or our dear companions

Dave in Phoenix

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Some women are considering the 4B movement

In the hours and days since it became clear that Donald Trump would be re-elected president of the United States, there’s been a surge of interest in the US for 4B.

Young liberal women across TikTok and Instagram are discussing and sharing information about the South Korean feminist movement, in which straight women refuse to marry, have children, date or have sex with men.

These women say they are enraged and fed up after a majority of their male counterparts voted for a candidate who was found liable for sexual abuse and whose appointment of three conservative Supreme Court justices led to the overturning of national abortion rights protections.

In response, they say they’re swearing off men — and they’re encouraging others around the country to join them. “We have pandered and begged for men’s safety and done all the things that we were supposed to, and they still hate us,” Ashli Pollard, a 36-year-old in St. Louis, told CNN. “So if you’re going to hate us, then we’re going to do what we want.”

Trump says he is going to protect women [from abortion] whether they ‘like it or not’

What is the 4B movement?
4B is a shorthand for the four Korean words bihon, bichulsan, biyeonae and bisekseu, which translate to no marriage, no childbirth, no dating and no sex with men.

The 4B movement emerged in South Korea around 2015 or 2016. Mostly popular among young women in their 20s, she described it as a fringe offshoot of #MeToo and other feminist movements that arose in response to stark gender inequality in the country.

In 2016, a woman was brutally killed near a Seoul subway station — the perpetrator reportedly said he killed her because he felt ignored by women. The incident prompted a national reckoning around how women are treated in the country, expanding to include conversations around femicide, revenge porn and digital sex crimes.

Though South Korea’s 4B movement mostly faded from media headlines in recent years, the US election has renewed interest. The US election is inspiring conversation around 4B
It’s far too early to tell whether the 4B movement might seriously catch on in the US. But so far, at least, it’s generated a lot of online discussion among young women.

Some women are discovering the movement anew and are vowing to join. Others who are already married or partnered up say they plan to protest in other ways, such as boycotting male-owned businesses or refusing to do emotional labor for men.

Pollard says she learned about South Korea’s 4B movement a few years ago, inspiring her to “examine what a life looks like without centering men so deeply.” Since 2022, she says she hasn’t dated or slept with men and has realized that she’s better off on her own. She has the resources to support herself without marriage, and she plans to have a child alone.

Her decision to disengage from men wasn’t necessarily an act of vengeance, she says. Rather, it was about putting herself first. Now that other women around the country have taken an interest in 4B, she says she wants them to realize that they have other options.

“You push people far enough and they’re done,” she says. “How will that affect politics? We’ll see … but I think that women and their joy is going to be something that can’t really be overlooked anymore. Women are choosing themselves in droves.”

Alexa Vargas, a 26-year-old from Boston, says she stopped engaging with men a few years ago after a series of unhealthy relationships that included abuse and assault, and it wasn’t until earlier this year that she realized there was a movement and language that aligned with her actions. Though she says that “men need a wake-up call,” her decision is more about herself and other women.

“I don’t know if men are going to change their ways. I don’t know how this is going to pan out,” she says. “My goal in life and in this movement is to protect young women and girls.”

Women who have been talking about 4B online say the way some men have responded to their posts are already proving their point.

Abby K., a 27-year-old from Florida, recently broke up with her boyfriend over dismissive comments he made about Trump’s history of sexual abuse. When she posted a video about that and her decision to join the 4B movement, she says men flooded her DMs with death threats and hateful comments about her appearance.“It doesn’t exactly entice you to re-enter the dating pool,” she adds.

Some are skeptical 4B will catch on
In Han’s view, the 4B movement is unlikely to become mainstream in the US. She says it relies too heavily on the gender binary and that those inspired to join it as a result of the election are overlooking the fact that plenty of women voted for Trump, too. (Though Vice President Kamala Harris maintained an edge with women, exit polls indicate that her lead was smaller than President Joe Biden’s or former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s during their respective presidential campaigns.)

Hadia Khanani, a 24-year-old from Florida, also has reservations about 4B in the US. Though she hasn’t engaged with men romantically for several years in an effort to prioritize herself, she wants women to dig deeper and examine their own role in upholding patriarchy. She also worries about the consequences of further isolating men.

“The conversation online has been centered around sleeping with men and dating men, obviously to protect yourself, but I just feel like misogyny and patriarchy is much deeper than that,” she says. “I think a lot of it is rooted in the way that men are raised in society.”

Even if large numbers of women don’t adopt the strict tenets of 4B, those who are taking part for now hope the recent conversations around it lead women to think about themselves and their circumstances differently.

“I don’t ever expect everyone in America to hold hands and agree not to date men,” Abby K. says. “I could definitely see it fueling change in some way.”

Han predicts that American interest in the 4B movement will subside quickly. Still, she hopes that the recent discourse around it will help women understand that they aren’t alone in their struggles and build solidarity with others around the world.

“I think a lot of American women are … trying to find ways to seek empowerment and find a way to survive,” Han says. “And I hope what they find is not necessarily a particular movement like the 4B movement, but a recognition that struggles for reproductive justice and gender equality are certainly not just American concerns.”
 
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Turtle Wax

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Wow, @Dave in Phoenix, You brought my attention on a new trend!
I just lost 30 minutes of my life reading online about this while constantly facepalming. Thanks man, it was well worth it.

1- 4B Movement, 2- Purity Ring movement, 3- Mandatory Virginity that results in heightened anal sex, and so on... We're constantly dealing with people and communities that push concepts to such an extreme that I'm forced to apply Brandolini's Law in order for my brain not to melt.

I hope this trend will prove to be a fad and soon slip into oblivion. I hope the Gen-Zers find a way not to go too far down this rabbit hole.
Why? Because as young Japanese men have proven to the whole world by retiring for normal life in an almost "4B" approach decades ago, successfully choosing celibacy and robot-AI for their love life, humans now have all that's required to go all-in into this destructive behaviour. And Japan is not coming back from this trend anymore. They're almost certainly doomed, from a reproductive standpoint.

Still, thank you for this enlightening us with this new trend that I will certainly follow in the news, from a distance.


Cheers

TW
 

Fradi

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Another ridiculous woke ploy to tell people they are stupid and should be more like them.
Last I looked people are free to vote for whoever they prefer that is the whole idea behind voting.
Those that are considering it are welcome to it who needs them.
Women like that should stay single and spend their life with their cats ( nothing against cats I like all animals ).

I love all these sour grapes Dems lol.
You lost the people have spoken the very reason you lost is because you fail to look at reality.

Stop calling people stupid, uneducated and face the facts that you are out of touch with the real needs of the people which is food on the table for their families and safe streets for them to walk around in.

Canada is next hope Trudeau has packed his bags already.
 

LC18

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Interesting. What i find sad isn't the movement itself, people have the right to do whatever they want with their body, but the fact that we have reach that point.

It is sad indeed that people feel it’s their last hope at protecting their reproductive rights as women.


BTW this thread belongs in the politic section mostly because it’s about to be ugly. It always does…
 

TheJames101

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Is this the female equivalent of the incels or something? I haven't read about it beyond a headline... but going to such extremes is rarely a good thing, imo.
 

LC18

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Is this the female equivalent of the incels or something? I haven't read about it beyond a headline... but going to such extremes is rarely a good thing, imo.

While both movements are extreme, in my eyes they are different.

Men hate on women because they can’t get laid and women hate on men because they feel that their reproductive rights are stripped away.

Incels are involuntarily celibates while this 4b movement seems to be composed of very much voluntarily celibates.
 

Fradi

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Interesting. What i find sad isn't the movement itself, people have the right to do whatever they want with their body, but the fact that we have reach that point.
Yes they have a right to do whatever they want with their body for sure.
With the same thought process men have a right to use their mind and vote which ever way they want without being bullied or threatened.
 

MCTJ

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While both movements are extreme, in my eyes they are different.

Men hate on women because they can’t get laid and women hate on men because they feel that their reproductive rights are stripped away.

Incels are involuntarily celibates while this 4b movement seems to be composed of very much voluntarily celibates.
It seems to me that women can live relatively happily without a boyfriend, but that men without girlfriends suffer much more mentally. The sting of rejection hurts a lot.
 
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Fradi

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They don't seem to be threatening men; incels are threatening women though.
Incels are horrible people I can totally agree with you on that.
So are women that will use sex as a way to bully and threaten men to vote according to their beliefs instead of their conscience.

I don’t understand how you don’t see that as a threat, maybe not to their lives and not as dangerous but a definite threat.
It is not a case of us against them that is not how lasting loving relationships are built and political disagreement is not life threatening it is a choice that everyone is entitled to make without any type of coercion.
 
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Giselle Montreal

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So are women that will use sex as a way to bully and threaten men to vote according to their beliefs instead of their conscience.

I don’t understand how you don’t see that as a threat [...]
We are talking about the 4B movement and the movement doesn't seem to be about that.

This movement is not about radical feminists. And as I am always saying, extremists are never contributing positively to a cause, indeed.
 
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Fradi

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We are talking about the 4B movement and the movement doesn't seem to be about that.

This movement is not about radical feminists. And as I am always saying, extremists are never contributing positively to a cause, indeed.
You don’t consider using sex as a way to bully men into voting a certain way as being radical ?
I do agree that radicals on either side don’t contribute anything to a healthy society.

There are many things I agree and disagree with on both sides politically, but I will always believe in accepting the vote and the will of the people in a free election and giving the winning side a chance to govern for the time they were elected for. If they don’t deliver that is what the vote is for next time around to get rid of them.
 

Julia Sky

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I wouldn't say it's bullying or threatening, considering everyone gets to choose who they accept having sex with and no one owes anyone sex.

The men who vote for trump can have sex with the women who vote for him also, it's not like 100% of women are saying they'll stop having sex
 

Johnny test

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I wouldn't say it's bullying or threatening, considering everyone gets to choose who they accept having sex with and no one owes anyone sex.

The men who vote for trump can have sex with the women who vote for him also, it's not like 100% of women are saying they'll stop having sex
quite correct, From Wikipedia Although the exact membership remains uncertain, some unverified estimates suggest a range of 500 to 4,000 claimed participants
 

Fradi

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How is that bullying? If you don't agree with them find someone else to have sex with.
So you consider breaking up a marriage or a life long commitment is valid because your partner won’t vote for the same political party as you as not bullying, because I hate to break it to you but a relationship without sex in a marriage or serious relationship almost always leads to divorce and separation.
It will make a lot of SP happy and keep them working though.

I do agree that a woman who will use these kind of tactics is not someone you should entertain being with and you should run like hell as quickly as possible.
 

Johnny test

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You don’t consider using sex as a way to bully men into voting a certain way as being radical ?
I do agree that radicals on either side don’t contribute anything to a healthy society.

There are many things I agree and disagree with on both sides politically, but I will always believe in accepting the vote and the will of the people in a free election and giving the winning side a chance to govern for the time they were elected for. If they don’t deliver that is what the vote is for next time around to get rid of them.
On the contrary radicals tend to force society to evolve, without radicals there wouldn't have been a civil war movement for example.
 
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