SWINE FLU ---- airplanes + internet = pandemic hysteria
- Thread starter Morris Wanchuk
- Start date
I am not sure I would call it hysteria right now... but the world sure is at risk for a pandemic! This one seems to have spread fast, i.e cases in many US states and now in Nova Scotia and Vancouver BC... The flu itself is a very contagious disease, so if there is a bad one out there... it will be a very contagious bad one....
What I wonder more is: will this change your habits off seeing SPs?
People who travel are the ones who are likely to import a new disease in a city so far free of this disease... SPs see many clients who travel ... SPs (this is a crude generalization here...) are not in the habit of calling in sick for things such as colds, periods, etc... So it could be that SPs would be a potential vector of transmission of a new disease... from american client in Montreal to Montreal client...
What I wonder more is: will this change your habits off seeing SPs?
People who travel are the ones who are likely to import a new disease in a city so far free of this disease... SPs see many clients who travel ... SPs (this is a crude generalization here...) are not in the habit of calling in sick for things such as colds, periods, etc...
So it could be that SPs would be a potential vector of transmission of a new disease... from american client in Montreal to Montreal client...
Every time a new disease or such start to spread, people go crazy, just like that thing that came from Asia in the chickens, then after that there was the meat bactery from maple leaf, because of my mother paranoia i didn't eat hot dogs for over 2 months, and they where providing me my meat because they had it for safe sources...
So i think it will do its time again, and people will return to normal.
So i think it will do its time again, and people will return to normal.
Halloween Mike said:
Sorry, but a bacteria found in certain meats is NOT the same thing as a flu-like virus that could potentially have a high fatality rate... In the first case, you just do as you did: don't eat the meat for a certain time and you're sure to be OK... In the second case, you don't know off hand who has the disease and it's harder to avoid if it becomes epidemic...
Halloween Mike said:Every time a new disease or such start to spread, people go crazy, just like that thing that came from Asia in the chickens, then after that there was the meat bactery from maple leaf, because of my mother paranoia i didn't eat hot dogs for over 2 months, and they where providing me my meat because they had it for safe sources...
So i think it will do its time again, and people will return to normal.
Happily, then, you are not in charge of setting public health policy.
Pandemics are real, some reality-based steps to deal with a potentially serious problem are being taken.
Look up the history of pandemics on wikipedia if you don't believe me.
Here's a sample extract:
The flu spread world-wide before we had the air-travel infrastructure we now have. The flu was spread in part by soldiers fighting in WWI.
If you aren't concerned about the next pandemic, which will absolutely come
to pass sooner or later, then you are naive.
Halloween Mike said:
That and the way you react by minimizing the risks begs for one question: are you old enough to be on this board?
YouVantOption said:
To be fair, it was also before many of the modern medicines and vaccines were invented. Protocalls have also played a large part in halting the spread.
The cases in Halifax were fairly mild and most did not require hospitalization. Let's hope that remains the pattern.
Panic helps no one and I think it's a bit premature for things like the stock market to be reacting to it. We had "Chicken Little, the sky is falling" panics twice over the last few years with bird flu and SARS. Both were serious but hardly pandemics.
Wouldn't like to be Mexico's Minister of Tourism though.
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Time to Punt said:
This is one thing that is puzzling right now: in Mexico, many people have died or have had a severe form with pneumonia and respiratory failure. None of that so far outsie of Mexico. FLuke? Simple statistics, the total number of people ill from it outside of Mexico being too small for now to have deaths? Who knows... but it is likely people outside of Mexico will die too....
A pandemic is defined by the number of people affected and the geographical spread of a disease. Yes SARS was not a pandemic, but I would not want to see anyone put SARS in the "sky is falling panic". Montreal was lucky not to get cases... Toronto, not so.
It is interesting to see the difference between some viruses in their lethality and spread. If a virus is very lethal, it has less chance of spreading very wide, because it kills most of the people who get it. Think Ebola... If on the other hand a virus is less lethal (in terms of death rate per number of people affected), it will have much more time and chances to spread... and in the end, a greater number of people affected... which can still cause a great number of deaths globally.
hormone said:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/04/27/swine-flu042709.html
There are huge swathes or rural areas in mexico. people traveling back here might be in greater proportion urban dwellers who have more ready, and earlier access to hospitals.
It is simply too early to say, or to spot and predict trends.
Time to Punt said:
hormone said:
Pretty much everybody involved with SARS (with the exception of Mel 'Send in the Army" Lastman types) knows that SARS was happily a near-miss. Bird Flu was expected to be the next pandemic, and as the virologist i heard interviewed on CBC last Friday said (I'm paraphrasing) "There is some irony in the fact that we have spend the past decade preparing for avian, if swine is indeed it'.
Anyone in that community (virology, public health, epidemiology) doesn't think IF, but WHEN, when talking about pandemics.
Is this one it? We don't yet know. It is hard not to dismiss this as another press-fueled panic, one of those topics-du-jour, and it may well be. But, it may not.
Why worry when all we can do is pretty much nothing. Wear a mask? Trust the people we have elected to take care of us?(now that is scary!) Drive to Hudson Bay on an ATV is the best way out! Bring an sp. At least if you die you will die happy!
Do cell phones work up there?
Do cell phones work up there?
The funniest thing is that in Israel, for religious/kosher reasons they're referring to it simply as Mexican flu.
This is being overhyped same as bird flu and SARS - just wash ur hands, stop 2-cheek kissing everyone you meet and don't watch CNN - you'll feel like building yourself a bomb shelter and hiding for 6 weeks...
This is being overhyped same as bird flu and SARS - just wash ur hands, stop 2-cheek kissing everyone you meet and don't watch CNN - you'll feel like building yourself a bomb shelter and hiding for 6 weeks...
Dplus, where were you when SARS hit? Were you watching the news? Peoples in Canada died because of SARS and the death toll didn't go higher probably exactly because of the alert state that was raised. There was lots of peoples infected with SARS in Ontario but they were diagnosed and treated promptly because of this high alert level.
I was working in hospital environment at the time of SARS and believe me, there was nothing funny about it. EVERYTHING they did as a protection measure can't be discarded as useless because NOBODY can tell what would have happened if these measures had not been taken.
In my opinion, it's better to have a high alert level and lots of prevention/early diagnostic than a lots of death. After the dust settle, I find it better as a society to say "Yup, maybe we went overboard." than "Damn, we should have been more agressive." Embarrassment is better than regrets and guilt.
I was working in hospital environment at the time of SARS and believe me, there was nothing funny about it. EVERYTHING they did as a protection measure can't be discarded as useless because NOBODY can tell what would have happened if these measures had not been taken.
In my opinion, it's better to have a high alert level and lots of prevention/early diagnostic than a lots of death. After the dust settle, I find it better as a society to say "Yup, maybe we went overboard." than "Damn, we should have been more agressive." Embarrassment is better than regrets and guilt.
metoo4 said:
Actually there were many many mistakes made at the beginning, mainly in protocol in Canada when SARS hit. Only 40 died, most of whom were elderly or had previous respitory problems, but at least 1 of those who died was a nurse. It was tragic because it was unecessary. Had anyone been aware it would have been preventable. She had been treating an infected patient without gloves or a mask.
People over-reacted then as they are now and I agree with dplus it is being way overhyped. The truth is that more people will die in Quebec and Ontario hospitals of c-difficile this year that they catch in the hospital than will die of swine flu.
I do laugh when I see pictures of people walking around with masks - UNLESS you are a customs agent meeting a plane from Mexico of course.
Time to Punt said:
Interesting. If I can ask, since you seem so authoritative, obviously you are an expert in the field: Where did you get your Immunology/Virology/Epidemiology degree?
YouVantOption said:
Same place as you
Actually the c-dificile situation and the SARS aftermath have been extensively documented and repeating what has been written does not require a degree because it's not all that difficult to grasp. Everyone involved admits there were mistakes made with SARS and they would do things differently starting at the hospital level. I had a particular interest in following the debriefing because geographically I worked right in the middle of it when it happened.
Over 500 people have died of c-difficile in Ontario hospitals and they still can't find a way to eliminate it. At one time Quebec was worse with up to 2,000 deaths. I understand the problem has been improved ( I have an elderly mother who caught it at the Royal Vic) but still not nearly eliminated.
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2413320
SARS was clearly overhyped at the beginning mainly because few knew what we were dealing with exactly. Toronto was a ghost town as far as foreign visitors were concerned. Despite making mistakes, and learning from them on the run, the death toll was relatively small in comparison with other world tragedies.
As far as the swine flu is concerned it has been well publicized that it is transmitted the same way as everyday flu, through direct contact with someone who is infected or airborne such as through a sneeze etc.
To walk around in your normal environment with a mask unless you are being exposed to people coming directly from an infected area strikes me as silly. Yes, that's my opinion as well as it's my opinion that this has been overhyped by the media. To have the whole of North America put on a travel advisory by several countries strikes me as crazy.
This obviously has caused you a problem given your post. Why I'm not sure. That was not my intention. You are certainly intitled to a different opinion and if you work for WHO or CDC your opinion may, in fact, be the definitive one.
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Time to Punt said:Same place as you
Actually the c-dificile situation and the SARS aftermath have been extensively documented and repeating what has been written does not require a degree because it's not all that difficult to grasp.
...
This obviously has caused you a problem given your post. Why I'm not sure. That was not my intention. You are certainly intitled to a different opinion and if you work for WHO or CDC your opinion may, in fact, be the definitive one.
I was interested in why you made a definitive statement:
Apparently, you aren't qualified to make such a statement. That's what I thought, but wanted to make certain.
No, it isn't hard to follow the suggestions of the W.H.O., or the advice of government officials in countries that have deployed their pandemic preparedness plans. http://www.fightflu.ca/index-eng.html
I have no opinion on this topic, I am merely pointing out definitive sources of FACTS.
No-one, including stone experts in the field know where this is going in the long run. Apparently there is no reason to panic, as yet, and yes, the news media is hyping the situation. That doesn't mean the situation isn't serious (it is) or that we should not take heed (we should). I think following the advice or assessment of 'some guy' as Jason Jones presented in his piece on The Daily Show two nights ago might be just a little wrong-headed is all.
Punt, others making comments about health here
Punt, truly nothing personal.
I have taken issue with others opining on health matters on this board, in some cases with extremely misguided, no, entirely wrong statements about such matters.
I apologize if I am being too harsh, but you know what?
I could care less if someone gets herpes in his dick or face because he is playing around with some harpie, without protection.
I could care less if someone wants to go buy some magic plants to eat so his weener gets bigger, longer, uncut. There's one born every minute.
I do care if uninformed opinion about matters that can have dire consequences is made here, and goes unchallenged.
I do care to keep my eyes on the W.H.O. website to what the real and true situation is regarding a potential pandemic or a disease (there's that word again, this time used properly) that can and does cause death.
I'm not a doctor, or a scientist by education. In all cases regarding health, there are good sources of information starting with your family doctor, your local health clinic or hospital, or the websites put up by agencies whose job it is to deal with this stuff.
If I want to know which escort is going to swallow my goo, or ride me like a bunny rabbit, I'll check MERB, but one of many places I wouldn't go for accurate health information is here.
Punt, truly nothing personal.
I have taken issue with others opining on health matters on this board, in some cases with extremely misguided, no, entirely wrong statements about such matters.
I apologize if I am being too harsh, but you know what?
I could care less if someone gets herpes in his dick or face because he is playing around with some harpie, without protection.
I could care less if someone wants to go buy some magic plants to eat so his weener gets bigger, longer, uncut. There's one born every minute.
I do care if uninformed opinion about matters that can have dire consequences is made here, and goes unchallenged.
I do care to keep my eyes on the W.H.O. website to what the real and true situation is regarding a potential pandemic or a disease (there's that word again, this time used properly) that can and does cause death.
I'm not a doctor, or a scientist by education. In all cases regarding health, there are good sources of information starting with your family doctor, your local health clinic or hospital, or the websites put up by agencies whose job it is to deal with this stuff.
If I want to know which escort is going to swallow my goo, or ride me like a bunny rabbit, I'll check MERB, but one of many places I wouldn't go for accurate health information is here.
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