The mileage variation

[terrybogard88]

You are right dear, there are horrible clients as there are horrible SPs…
I always try to do my best ethically and found some « low mileage » (not as advertised) SPs on my way anyway. The thing is, they were not reviewed and as a client, I still have right of « no repeat ».
Don’t know if you had horrible clients who repeated…I hope not.

Correct. I d like to pause right there because that s interesting.

somebody doing his best ethically, and objectively (a polite clean man with good manners and everything). how come he faces low mileage on his way anyway ? He should not. In my opinion.

Thoughts ? Cc SPs

 

[terrybogard88]

And we see that more and more especially these late years. My opinion again. But not just me. @CLOUD 500 thinks the same.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

It all depends on the connection

I agree with you on this and I think you can't really fake connection. I do think as a provider my job is to make the client feel special and to provide services and a good experience, but sometimes it's just not a good match. As indy providers we're lucky because we can adjust our branding to attract the right clients, but when you're starting or if you're working for a MP or an agency you don't really have the luxury of doing that. I didn't know how to brand myself and what to do at first. I've had bookings I didn't like in the past year, but I enjoyed most of them and liked almost all the clients I met. Sometimes, it just doesn't work.

Correct. I d like to pause right there because that s interesting.

somebody doing his best ethically, and objectively (a polite clean man with good manners and everything). how come he faces low mileage on his way anyway ? He should not. In my opinion.

Thoughts ? Cc SPs

I think you'd have to be more specific about the low mileage you're getting.. You're saying girls are talking too much, which I can see for you is a problem, but I think you could be more firm when you are booking them on what style of booking you want. Some clients during 2 hour appointments actually are the ones who want to talk for the first hour. Tell the SP what you want directly.

From what many SP who have been in the industry way longer than I have, I understand that the industry has changed and I hear SP who work for agencies say that clients have gotten more aggressive and demanding, I don't know how true that is. If it is, it could impact how they approach other bookings. Also, I think more different types of men hire sex workers nowadays. It's not as taboo as it used to be, men know we are not being exploited and that many of us enjoy this job.. So there are more clients, and more men who approach bookings like dates, perhaps.

I'm not saying it's bad to want to have sex the whole time during a booking, it's your time, if that's what you want go for it. It's just that not everyone wants that type of experience so maybe it's better to just tell the person, in a playful way, that you aren't there just to chat. I think it's helpful to have a discussion about expectations before a session.

 

[bodick7]

But you have to ask.

Oh, that’s what I did.
But my request just came out naturally.
I didn’t ask specifically for smog but to extend pleasure a bit after explosion.
She did so and it was great.

 

[terrybogard88]

I agree with you on this and I think you can't really fake connection. I do think as a provider my job is to make the client feel special and to provide services and a good experience, but sometimes it's just not a good match. As indy providers we're lucky because we can adjust our branding to attract the right clients, but when you're starting or if you're working for a MP or an agency you don't really have the luxury of doing that. I didn't know how to brand myself and what to do at first. I've had bookings I didn't like in the past year, but I enjoyed most of them and liked almost all the clients I met. Sometimes, it just doesn't work.

I think you'd have to be more specific about the low mileage you're getting.. You're saying girls are talking too much, which I can see for you is a problem, but I think you could be more firm when you are booking them on what style of booking you want. Some clients during 2 hour appointments actually are the ones who want to talk for the first hour. Tell the SP what you want directly.

From what many SP who have been in the industry way longer than I have, I understand that the industry has changed and I hear SP who work for agencies say that clients have gotten more aggressive and demanding, I don't know how true that is. If it is, it could impact how they approach other bookings. Also, I think more different types of men hire sex workers nowadays. It's not as taboo as it used to be, men know we are not being exploited and that many of us enjoy this job.. So there are more clients, and more men who approach bookings like dates, perhaps.

I'm not saying it's bad to want to have sex the whole time during a booking, it's your time, if that's what you want go for it. It's just that not everyone wants that type of experience so maybe it's better to just tell the person, in a playful way, that you aren't there just to chat. I think it's helpful to have a discussion about expectations before a session.

Yes. That is clear i agree. Regardless, a client would expect an SP to be following the direction and the hints that he introduces right ? (Or she can sets direction too, towards service and intimacy) , Like if im getting close to you and start touching well you know that we should probably talk less and move onto something more intimate.

Following the direction (1) and providing the advertised services (2) to a boy who is objectively doing very good ethically (hygiene, manners, intentions) is what i would expect normally from an SP. In that particular context, (1) and (2) should not be subject to low mileage. I dont see the reason for that

 

[Giselle Montreal]

Maybe you treat this too much like a brick and mortar business rather than a very personal interaction between two different individuals who don't know each other.

 

[terrybogard88]

More generally speaking it also comes down to the idea that people should love what they are doing and be willing to please , in normal conditions

 

[terrybogard88]

Maybe you treat this too much like a brick and mortar business rather than a very personal interaction between two different individuals who don't know each other.

But hence comes the point there should be some balance.IT IS kind of a business, there is money involved my dear

 

[Lunaseraphim]

Oh, that’s what I did.
But my request just came out naturally.
I didn’t ask specifically for smog but to extend pleasure a bit after explosion.
She did so and it was great.

Yes but not all guys like this. Some guys find it unpleasant or painful. We can't really read your mind...

Yes. That is clear i agree. Regardless, a client would expect an SP to be following the direction and the hints that he introduces right ? (Or she can sets direction too, towards service and intimacy) , Like if im getting close to you and start touching well you know that we should probably talk less and move onto something more intimate.

Following the direction (1) and providing the advertised services (2) to a boy who is objectively doing very good ethically (hygiene, manners, intentions) is what i would expect normally from an SP. In that particular context, (1) and (2) should not be subject to low mileage. I dont see the reason for that

I don't know.. I guess I see what you mean. Not everyone wants to move to the bedroom right when they start touching you, some people want to take their time. I always try to check in with my clients specially during bookings that are 2h or less, as fast as possible, but honestly I feel like it doesn't necessarily come naturally. I think you can just be more bold in your request if you feel like it's not going fast enough. I do usually understand that it's time to talk less and move to something more intimate if the client starts touching me, but some of my clients really like to cuddle and relax first so it's not always the case. One clear sign is if the client kisses me. I get that you're trying to give hints and these SP's are not receiving them and that is frustrating..

See when I hear ''low mileage'' I usually think the client is referring to a girl not giving many services, like not allowing kissing, no daty, etc. I guess it depends on expectations. In my experience when a client wants to start having sex he cuts the conversation short.. One thing you can do is go to the shower to indicate that you're ready, but I understand that could kinda kill the mood. I definitely feel like there are different types of clients who want different types of experiences, and none of these experiences are inferior or superior. To you maybe it feels like the girl is making easy money if she's talking too much, but some guys prefer to ease into it and have more conversation.

I do think there could be some providers who avoid the sex part on purpose by talking non stop, but for some others it's more about connecting with the client and they aren't intending on giving you lower mileage.. I absolutely agree that you should be getting the service you want if you are doing good ethically, just talk about your expectations, like I said. I know maybe you think that isn't part of what you should be doing as a client, but I think clients should always say what they want personally. I've had clients like I said who assumed they could do certain things with me for some reason (not based on anything that's in my ad or on my website at all), and those situations could have been avoided if we had talked about it before. That's why personally as an indy I always ask clients what they want during the booking process and I think maybe they think that's unusual, but it helps clarify everything.

I think a good way of approaching this would be with humor, in a way that's not too crude obviously, describing the scenario of what you want for the date. If she doesn't want to do that, then she won't see you. If she wants to do it, she'll know how to treat you.

 

[Giselle Montreal]

But hence comes the point there should be some balance.IT IS kind of a business, there is money involved my dear

I didn't say it was not a business, but you seem to remove the personal and intimate factor out of this. Escorts are not Best Buys.

 

[bodick7]

Yes but not all guys like this. Some guys find it unpleasant or painful. We can't really read your mind...

Didn’t think about this. It’s usually my case but not this time as she did it very slowly.
It wouldn’t have been welcomed in the « post action » mood to start pumping at full speed again…

 

[Lunaseraphim]

I didn't say it was not a business, but you seem to remove the personal and intimate factor out of this. Escorts are not Best Buys.

That's the thing. I understand yes that this involves a lot of money and we are supposed to offer a service, but at the end of the day you are not just paying for sex, you are paying for an experience between 2 human beings and that involves a lot of things. I get that we all have different wants and needs and it's okay for a client not to want to talk too much, but you have to say it to the provider, communication is the least you can do as a client and I truly believe a lot of dates that don't feel fulfilling for the clients could have been prevented with a honest conversation. It's an interaction between 2 people.

Clients very rarely give negative feedback except online. I recently had a regular client tell me he didn't like something about our previous booking, and I apologized and said things would be different from now on. Unless the demand is unrealistic or disrespectful, it's not complicated. It doesn't happen often, but when it has happened I could tell when a client was not satisfied with an experience with me, and I'd like to know why. You are helping others by doing this.. When it comes to reviews yes they are helpful but we all notice that they are flawed. Some reviews are too good, sometimes there aren't enough details for you (that's something I've noticed in a lot of my reviews that men are not talking about the services), it's impossible to know if a review is fake or not, after all you're talking to people on the internet whose identity you don't know.

We don't get an endless supply of clients like I said, we have to work really hard to get bookings and to get the clients to come back. Sure I am scared of getting a bad review like all escorts are, but that's not what makes me want to give a good service. In this industry it's important to give clients positive experiences and connect with them so they come back, because regulars and repeat clients are a big percentage of our income, and they come and go.

 

[terrybogard88]

I didn't say it was not a business, but you seem to remove the personal and intimate factor out of this. Escorts are not Best Buys.

No no read it well, you will see the word balance in my post. The rest is your perception. Let s not dive into one extreme end. BALANCE is the keyword.

Next to it, i indicate that , in normal conditions, service is expected and low mileage is not expected. We have to be clear on that at least

 

[Lunaseraphim]

Didn’t think about this. It’s usually my case but not this time as she did it very slowly.
It wouldn’t have been welcomed in the « post action » mood to start pumping at full speed again…

I know, but I've had a boyfriend before who was really sensitive afterwards and he screamed when I kept sucking and that left me feeling really careful around that lol

 

[terrybogard88]

That idea of "low mileage" can be subjective as well. Most of the time i find it rather objective in reviews, it is precisely about: "drastically reduced or completely refused" service

 

[Lunaseraphim]

That idea of "low mileage" can be subjective as well. Most of the time i find it rather objective in reviews, it is precisely about: "drastically reduced or completely refused" service

I never realized that, I always thought YMMV in reviews had to do with acronyms offered when I saw it in reviews. That's what I've always been told by both clients and providers. I thought it meant that a provider won't treat every client the same way. I've seen the terms used in good reviews as well.

 

[Carmine Falcone]

I didn't say it was not a business, but you seem to remove the personal and intimate factor out of this. Escorts are not Best Buys.

Giselle's comment is the essence of YMMV. Clients have different personalities, different body types, different approaches to hygiene, different senses of humor and on and on. Even with a baseline of SP expectations from client, some interactions just go better because that client and SP are simpatico.

My reading of YMMV has always been if the client does his part--wash your hands well, take a shower, use mouthwash, respect boundaries etc.--this is what you can expect. The service contract works in both directions.

Last thing is my experience has been opposite of CLOUD 500 when it comes to indies: the service is more consistent and they actually look like their pictures. And when you remember indies have more incentive to be better (they work for themselves, service has to justify higher rates, intense competition), it makes sense. I migrated to mostly indies because agency interactions for me have significantly declined from when I first visited Montreal.

 

[Halloween Mike]

When it comes to "YMMV" there is some factors in the control of the client while there is some that is not (on that specific day)

Under client control :

Vibe/Behavior: Obviously how you behave is a big point. If you give a good vibe, its always better. Some peoples have the "entregens" easier than others. In my case it also depend on the vibe of the provider. I am a bit shy still even after all these years but if she make me at ease, i will be a lot more "easy going". I know part of it is on me and a client can also influence positively a provider, so i try my best to overcome my shyness these days. In any case i am always polite and well behave when i arrive because these are "codes" i also apply in my day to day life. For instance it can be things as small as removing your shoes when entering somebody's house. For me it is a normality, but there was peoples i had to remind to do it when they arrived at my place. Therefore when i arrive at an incall obviously i remove my shoes right away. Often behaviors can be to show up sober, to inquire about boundaries, and as funny as it may sound, just act like a normal person.

Hygiene : This is obvious ... no need to expend too much there

Presentation : I am a bit guilty in that departement as i still dress like a person younger than my age. I don't see myself as a "monsieur". I don't buy ties and suits. Its been almost a meme on this board in the past . But at least i try to appear "presentable". That said considering most escorts are in their 20s or early 30s (i said most, don't crucify me if you are an older provider ) maybe its more relatable to them? I dunno.

NOT under client control

Physical appearance like facial morphology, weight etc. I mean yes ultimately with time and effort you can lose weight but for a booking that happen on a specific date, i am gonna be what i am gonna be. Some providers may simply not attract to older men, or heavier men, and so on. I found out that usually the better providers can work pass that, and appearance is not really important for them, but some have a little more trouble with it and may not want to give more than the "minimum" to someone they are not attracted to.

I mean i had a few rare providers who gave me a cold shower even before i had time to say anything beyond "salut". Either my appearance may have been a turn off for them or the job simply was... In either case i had few control over that. I guess i took a "tofft" because the pictures looked good ...

Anyway i will say that in my 16+ years of doing this, i have been extremely lucky to only have a few "subpar" meetings or if you prefer when attitude, mileage etc was an issue. That said i mostly played safe as well as the few "tofft" i took were still in reputed agencies or indies i knew were friends with other indies that had good reputation.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

When it comes to "YMMV" there is some factors in the control of the client while there is some that is not (on that specific day)

Under client control :

Vibe/Behavior: Obviously how you behave is a big point. If you give a good vibe, its always better. Some peoples have the "entregens" easier than others. In my case it also depend on the vibe of the provider. I am a bit shy still even after all these years but if she make me at ease, i will be a lot more "easy going". I know part of it is on me and a client can also influence positively a provider, so i try my best to overcome my shyness these days. In any case i am always polite and well behave when i arrive because these are "codes" i also apply in my day to day life. For instance it can be things as small as removing your shoes when entering somebody's house. For me it is a normality, but there was peoples i had to remind to do it when they arrived at my place. Therefore when i arrive at an incall obviously i remove my shoes right away. Often behaviors can be to show up sober, to inquire about boundaries, and as funny as it may sound, just act like a normal person.

Hygiene : This is obvious ... no need to expend too much there

Presentation : I am a bit guilty in that departement as i still dress like a person younger than my age. I don't see myself as a "monsieur". I don't buy ties and suits. Its been almost a meme on this board in the past . But at least i try to appear "presentable". That said considering most escorts are in their 20s or early 30s (i said most, don't crucify me if you are an older provider ) maybe its more relatable to them? I dunno.

NOT under client control

Physical appearance like facial morphology, weight etc. I mean yes ultimately with time and effort you can lose weight but for a booking that happen on a specific date, i am gonna be what i am gonna be. Some providers may simply not attract to older men, or heavier men, and so on. I found out that usually the better providers can work pass that, and appearance is not really important for them, but some have a little more trouble with it and may not want to give more than the "minimum" to someone they are not attracted to.

I mean i had a few rare providers who gave me a cold shower even before i had time to say anything beyond "salut". Either my appearance may have been a turn off for them or the job simply was... In either case i had few control over that. I guess i took a "tofft" because the pictures looked good ...

Anyway i will say that in my 16+ years of doing this, i have been extremely lucky to only have a few "subpar" meetings or if you prefer when attitude, mileage etc was an issue. That said i mostly played safe as well as the few "tofft" i took were still in reputed agencies or indies i knew were friends with other indies that had good reputation.

I think for me physical appearance and presentation are not super important. Hygiene and behavior really are. The clients who had a bad experience with me were usually extremely rude.. If you were already rude during the initial conversation, show up without smiling, you gossip and complain about other providers or compare you to them, make bad jokes (like one client made rape jokes for instance), start complaining right away, act brutal, etc, don't be surprised if you are not having a good experience.

One thing I've noticed is that clients rarely realize they are doing something bad, or that they have bad hygiene. And sometimes people have a medical issue that them sweat constantly, makes their breath smell bad no matter how much mouthwash they are using or have a weird body odor no matter how well they cleaned themselves. It's not their fault, but it can be really hard to work with that, let's face it. Otherwise ''bad clients'' (which is also a subjective concept, someone could be a good client to me and be seen as a bad client to someone else, and vice versa.. because we have different boundaries and we value different things), rarely know they are doing something bad. Every time I had a bad client he felt entitled to do what he did that bothered me and used excuses. I guess this is true of a lot of human beings, we are all flawed individuals but people who are assholes often don't think they are.

 

[CLOUD 500]

Yes but not all guys like this. Some guys find it unpleasant or painful. We can't really read your mind...

I don't know.. I guess I see what you mean. Not everyone wants to move to the bedroom right when they start touching you, some people want to take their time. I always try to check in with my clients specially during bookings that are 2h or less, as fast as possible, but honestly I feel like it doesn't necessarily come naturally. I think you can just be more bold in your request if you feel like it's not going fast enough. I do usually understand that it's time to talk less and move to something more intimate if the client starts touching me, but some of my clients really like to cuddle and relax first so it's not always the case. One clear sign is if the client kisses me. I get that you're trying to give hints and these SP's are not receiving them and that is frustrating..

I read a few reviews of some SPs that took advantage of shy clients and talked the whole time. These are recent reviews btw. Imagine a guy spending $700, and the girl decides to talk.

See when I hear ''low mileage'' I usually think the client is referring to a girl not giving many services, like not allowing kissing, no daty, etc.

This is exactly what YMMV means. She has the right to be YMMV but more and more reviews in 2025 is leading to poor services for various reasons. This is not something I am accustomed to given this was not the norm 15 years ago.

Last thing is my experience has been opposite of CLOUD 500 when it comes to indies: the service is more consistent and they actually look like their pictures. And when you remember indies have more incentive to be better (they work for themselves, service has to justify higher rates, intense competition), it makes sense. I migrated to mostly indies because agency interactions for me have significantly declined from when I first visited Montreal.

Nah. This is based on the reviews I been reading lately. The one Indy I was was in 2021, she was Leena BlackBeauty. I had a great time with her and it was full GFE.