Most sp started working in jdm. Ask most sp were they started to work most of them will tell you jdm and then will go on finding better money going indy or stsndsrd agency. But the problem is jdm you have to try many in order to find a new rising star at a good price but this is where most of them started.
Why are prices dropping?? $140 is back!
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fliper said:
I don't think that most started at jdm. jdm has had 2 types of girls, the ones that stay for a long time or the ones that work for a while, quit and then come back later. Eventually they all move on, but jdm has had girls come back after 3 or 4 years (eg Katia). Most of the girls that work for devilish or xxxtase never worked for jdm. So I don;t know where you get this information?
Is it possible ... ?
Let say that before ... maybe 3-5 years ago
Girls were making most likely 80$ = 1h
For GFE services.
Then there was extra $
For more then GFE services, exemple, CIM, SW ...
Average price for the client = 140$
Now let see in between ... maybe 2-3 years ago
More services appearing without extra $
More competition for the agency to get that service
More request for that standard
More pay for the girls ...
Wich brings the business here ...
Girls have lost the liberty of services if they want to make money
Girls have lost the liberty of the money they are willing to do or no by offering more or less services
Agency had to rise the price to keep the girls with those services
Client have lost the liberty of how much they wants to pay cause of rising standards...and being stuck with it
What if the standards where applicated to extra services instead ???
Would it still be a reason for the agency to rise the prices ?
If no, and I'm still thinking about it but ... , I think that it may not be a this actual point right now...
Any other opinions about this ?
Let say that before ... maybe 3-5 years ago
Girls were making most likely 80$ = 1h
For GFE services.
Then there was extra $
For more then GFE services, exemple, CIM, SW ...
Average price for the client = 140$
Now let see in between ... maybe 2-3 years ago
More services appearing without extra $
More competition for the agency to get that service
More request for that standard
More pay for the girls ...
Wich brings the business here ...
Girls have lost the liberty of services if they want to make money
Girls have lost the liberty of the money they are willing to do or no by offering more or less services
Agency had to rise the price to keep the girls with those services
Client have lost the liberty of how much they wants to pay cause of rising standards...and being stuck with it
What if the standards where applicated to extra services instead ???
Would it still be a reason for the agency to rise the prices ?
If no, and I'm still thinking about it but ... , I think that it may not be a this actual point right now...
Any other opinions about this ?
Wizard, I don`t agree with you.
I remember maybe 10 years ago where GFE with agencies like Fantasme and XXX were the norm and tipping was not expected. The avg. fee was $110 to $140 per hour with $20 per discount for additional hours. The service was usually good and the agencies were honest in directing you to the girls that you would want.
I remember a brief period where there where a couple of agencies where girls were trying to collect extra fees. I believe XTACY was one of them. I think it was Martin`s partner before he established XTASE? Anyhow, the girls would upcharge $20 to $40 for everything they would consider as extra - such as kissing, , tc, anything and everything.
I had a session with 2 ladies, who were young and hot, and the charge was $280 for the hour plus each wanted $40 per extra, dfk and , which would have brought it to $440 for one hour. I was horney and opted for one girl to dfk and the both to . My cost was $400. It was awkward remembering which I could kiss. Needless to say the one who I didn`t pay the extra $40 was rather pissed.
Also, they would not go down on me together at one time. That was an extra $80.
The way it is now, I know what the charge is upfront. I am not going to send away girls that I would otherwise accept because they are overselling themselves. I have been going to Montreal for 10 years and the norm has always been tipping has been optional, which I have given a little extra for good service.
Most guys want the liberal service. There is one agency that advertises 2 different rates for GFE and non-GFE, that is Sexyxxx and Venus. GFE for 180 and regular 150. The girls can also choose not to give GFE, but make less. I have only used Sexyxxx once and was disappointed (the girl even tried to charge me extra for dfk even though I paid for the GFE).
I like it the way it is now. It`s a lot less complex than what you are describing. I am not going to come to Montreal to get gouged. I think there are several honest agencies to choose from nowadays and the formula is good for business.
I remember maybe 10 years ago where GFE with agencies like Fantasme and XXX were the norm and tipping was not expected. The avg. fee was $110 to $140 per hour with $20 per discount for additional hours. The service was usually good and the agencies were honest in directing you to the girls that you would want.
I remember a brief period where there where a couple of agencies where girls were trying to collect extra fees. I believe XTACY was one of them. I think it was Martin`s partner before he established XTASE? Anyhow, the girls would upcharge $20 to $40 for everything they would consider as extra - such as kissing, , tc, anything and everything.
I had a session with 2 ladies, who were young and hot, and the charge was $280 for the hour plus each wanted $40 per extra, dfk and , which would have brought it to $440 for one hour. I was horney and opted for one girl to dfk and the both to . My cost was $400. It was awkward remembering which I could kiss. Needless to say the one who I didn`t pay the extra $40 was rather pissed.
Also, they would not go down on me together at one time. That was an extra $80.
The way it is now, I know what the charge is upfront. I am not going to send away girls that I would otherwise accept because they are overselling themselves. I have been going to Montreal for 10 years and the norm has always been tipping has been optional, which I have given a little extra for good service.
Most guys want the liberal service. There is one agency that advertises 2 different rates for GFE and non-GFE, that is Sexyxxx and Venus. GFE for 180 and regular 150. The girls can also choose not to give GFE, but make less. I have only used Sexyxxx once and was disappointed (the girl even tried to charge me extra for dfk even though I paid for the GFE).
I like it the way it is now. It`s a lot less complex than what you are describing. I am not going to come to Montreal to get gouged. I think there are several honest agencies to choose from nowadays and the formula is good for business.
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GFE is the standard now
Well that may be a strong statement that could be challenged but I`ve been following MERB and previously Canbest for about 5 years now and Dorothy your observations are true that the extras have become part of the standard service - and what has become the standard to some extent is what I would call basic GFE - usually includes MSOG, , DFK/LFK, DATY and hopefully a good attitude about this. This is of course among the better known agencies. What I would add to this is in the past year year or so is that a number of agencies have been working to make this a standard offering among all of their girls - so XXXtase, Devilish, Eleganza, Satin Dreamz, Primetime, Secret Affairs (doesn`t that sound like Private Lies
), Magnetic, etc. all seem offer GFE-only girls. In reality it may be more like 90% of the girls are GFE but the expectation of any client in these agencies is that they will get GFE no matter who they meet. And this is due to the owners who try to only keep girls who offer this level of service. So I would say that these agencies are causing a commoditization of the SP market in Montreal by offering a large number of girls with relatively consistent service to make sure they capture as much market share as possible. There is not much room for increased services but Eleganza is a good example that offers consistent added services among most of his girls and as a result charges 20/hr more than most competition. The main point here is that these agencies are trying to deliver a consistent set of services for a given price level so that most customers will be satisfied and the owners don`t have to worry about a particular girl or having different prices.
I would also add that while there seems to be a good supply of customers in Montreal, there is an even greater supply of girls, most that seem to be Quebecoise. There`s probably lots of reasons for this, but the constant appearance of new girls in these agencies is much more than just girls moving from one agency to another. My feeling is that unless LE becomes a factor (which it won`t), new agencies will keep appearing as the more entrepreneurial girls and drivers figure out the formula for success and can recruit new girls. While there will always be shadier outfits (some advertise on this board) getting inexperienced or ill-informed customers, access to web sites such as this one will keep getting bigger and will drive most of the smaller, poorly run outfits out of business while the bigger better outfits will keep growing. This is not my wish of course, just the reality of business. I do believe there will always be place for boutique-type agencies as well who don`t want to be the biggest but cater to customer who want personalized service beyond what a larger agency can do. There is only one thing holding back these agencies I think which is a better supply of hotels with siesta rates as I think the local market will probably start getting bigger given these rates.
One last thing about pricing in this market that has always puzzled me is the similarity in rates between strip clubs, massage parlours and escorts. In any one of these types of places, you will always end up spending about 140 - 160/hr though the type of services is quite different.
Well that may be a strong statement that could be challenged but I`ve been following MERB and previously Canbest for about 5 years now and Dorothy your observations are true that the extras have become part of the standard service - and what has become the standard to some extent is what I would call basic GFE - usually includes MSOG, , DFK/LFK, DATY and hopefully a good attitude about this. This is of course among the better known agencies. What I would add to this is in the past year year or so is that a number of agencies have been working to make this a standard offering among all of their girls - so XXXtase, Devilish, Eleganza, Satin Dreamz, Primetime, Secret Affairs (doesn`t that sound like Private Lies
), Magnetic, etc. all seem offer GFE-only girls. In reality it may be more like 90% of the girls are GFE but the expectation of any client in these agencies is that they will get GFE no matter who they meet. And this is due to the owners who try to only keep girls who offer this level of service. So I would say that these agencies are causing a commoditization of the SP market in Montreal by offering a large number of girls with relatively consistent service to make sure they capture as much market share as possible. There is not much room for increased services but Eleganza is a good example that offers consistent added services among most of his girls and as a result charges 20/hr more than most competition. The main point here is that these agencies are trying to deliver a consistent set of services for a given price level so that most customers will be satisfied and the owners don`t have to worry about a particular girl or having different prices.I would also add that while there seems to be a good supply of customers in Montreal, there is an even greater supply of girls, most that seem to be Quebecoise. There`s probably lots of reasons for this, but the constant appearance of new girls in these agencies is much more than just girls moving from one agency to another. My feeling is that unless LE becomes a factor (which it won`t), new agencies will keep appearing as the more entrepreneurial girls and drivers figure out the formula for success and can recruit new girls. While there will always be shadier outfits (some advertise on this board) getting inexperienced or ill-informed customers, access to web sites such as this one will keep getting bigger and will drive most of the smaller, poorly run outfits out of business while the bigger better outfits will keep growing. This is not my wish of course, just the reality of business. I do believe there will always be place for boutique-type agencies as well who don`t want to be the biggest but cater to customer who want personalized service beyond what a larger agency can do. There is only one thing holding back these agencies I think which is a better supply of hotels with siesta rates as I think the local market will probably start getting bigger given these rates.
One last thing about pricing in this market that has always puzzled me is the similarity in rates between strip clubs, massage parlours and escorts. In any one of these types of places, you will always end up spending about 140 - 160/hr though the type of services is quite different.
Well, for the past 5-7 years I noticed that the price went up. The base rate didn`t changed that much for an hour ($120-$140), but the main difference now is that the price and the service changed a lot with the extras and the GFE things.
Back then when I start to see SP, the service included most of the time what I called base service: daty, digit, msog and sometime kissing or . Now you have to pay an extra to everything. Now, for me, what I used to get back then, It`s called GFE and the price is at least $180. Even some GFE are charging extras for something included in GFE.
I know that the definition of GFE could be quite large and has been treated in other threads. But maybe I was lucky before...
Back then when I start to see SP, the service included most of the time what I called base service: daty, digit, msog and sometime kissing or . Now you have to pay an extra to everything. Now, for me, what I used to get back then, It`s called GFE and the price is at least $180. Even some GFE are charging extras for something included in GFE.
I know that the definition of GFE could be quite large and has been treated in other threads. But maybe I was lucky before...
I don't know which agencies you use, but most of the agencies are telling the girls not to upcharge on the GFE services. Guys are not accepting it. That has been my experience. The true GFE agencies, like Devilish, Eleganza, XXXTASE, Satin Dreamz, and add any that I left out, are the most successful and the most called. That's based on my experience and what everyone has posted on this board and what I have read.
More ???
Now, the question is, why going back to 140$?
Well, everything went up, amount of agency, girls and services.
It doesn't mean men have more money in there pockets.
So, even if everyone is offering more (more standars services included in an average price affordable for many) still the occupation is not successful.
So agencies may try to lower the prices to keep the girls busy.
Agree don't agree, well that's the debate. What happened? I don't say it was less complicated before. I say that it seems the actual standard may not reach as much people then before.
daydreamer41,
10 years ago...well I beleive there's a lot of stuff that wasn't working the same as today, if it's not all of it. I understand that extras are complicated. Let me show you want I meant ...
My question was: '' What if the standards were applicated to servcies instead?''
I'm calling agency X that offers:
GFE 160$
GFE CIM 180$
GFE CIMSW 200$
But I only want a GFE service like before: cost 160$
But if I want CIM then 180$
What's the diffrences from before? Well before extras could be applicated to what ever the girl wanted (like you said for kissing) and not if standards were applicate on the extras. After all, don't you expect to pay extra for greek? Wich it's severely established like an extra.
How much more extras can be applicated?
How much more standards services can girls provide?
What can be consider extra services?
Of course I find the actual system easier. But if you were an owner, what would you do? Your girls wants to make money, be busy. Ask the girls to do more, again? I could at the limit say that when a few good GFE out there decided to go ymmv or safe-GFE it may be cause they got tired of services competition that ask to give more and more. Not only that, some of them figured out that if it's the road it take, it may want to say that more is going on and they have decided to no step in there because there a limit to everything.
There is so much to talk about the subject, this thread is a must!
Now, the question is, why going back to 140$?
Well, everything went up, amount of agency, girls and services.
It doesn't mean men have more money in there pockets.
So, even if everyone is offering more (more standars services included in an average price affordable for many) still the occupation is not successful.
So agencies may try to lower the prices to keep the girls busy.
Agree don't agree, well that's the debate. What happened? I don't say it was less complicated before. I say that it seems the actual standard may not reach as much people then before.
daydreamer41,
10 years ago...well I beleive there's a lot of stuff that wasn't working the same as today, if it's not all of it. I understand that extras are complicated. Let me show you want I meant ...
My question was: '' What if the standards were applicated to servcies instead?''
I'm calling agency X that offers:
GFE 160$
GFE CIM 180$
GFE CIMSW 200$
But I only want a GFE service like before: cost 160$
But if I want CIM then 180$
What's the diffrences from before? Well before extras could be applicated to what ever the girl wanted (like you said for kissing) and not if standards were applicate on the extras. After all, don't you expect to pay extra for greek? Wich it's severely established like an extra.
How much more extras can be applicated?
How much more standards services can girls provide?
What can be consider extra services?
Of course I find the actual system easier. But if you were an owner, what would you do? Your girls wants to make money, be busy. Ask the girls to do more, again? I could at the limit say that when a few good GFE out there decided to go ymmv or safe-GFE it may be cause they got tired of services competition that ask to give more and more. Not only that, some of them figured out that if it's the road it take, it may want to say that more is going on and they have decided to no step in there because there a limit to everything.
There is so much to talk about the subject, this thread is a must!
longtimers said:
There's lots of truth to this, but other factors that is reducing the number of clients from out of town and lowering demand are the high price of gas, airport hassles, border hassles, a weaker U.S. dollar. When the demand isn't there any competitive business has to make adjustments.
In any case, Montreal is coming alive as of now!
Hotels are being overbooked and big festvals are coming up. In consequence, many new agencies will join the market this summer like every summer.
Last summer, the medias were talking about this 'issue' and they showed a page of a journal that was booming with escort ads! I recall spoting Devilish ( you couldn't miss those horns) and starting my search on merb. Who thought an agency in the 'journal de montreal' could be top of the line?
Anyhow, I don't see quality agencies dropping their prices other than recruiting. I would be surprised if they keep their prices as they are, especialy Devilish.
Hotels are being overbooked and big festvals are coming up. In consequence, many new agencies will join the market this summer like every summer.
Last summer, the medias were talking about this 'issue' and they showed a page of a journal that was booming with escort ads! I recall spoting Devilish ( you couldn't miss those horns) and starting my search on merb. Who thought an agency in the 'journal de montreal' could be top of the line?
Anyhow, I don't see quality agencies dropping their prices other than recruiting. I would be surprised if they keep their prices as they are, especialy Devilish.
Independants!
Prices are dropping backbecause of indepandants inthe SP and MP biz. Many ladiesare tires of giving the againcies or salons 40 to 50 % so they go on their own. Some ladies have told me that they make more as an independant than they made when they were with asolon or agency.
Prices are dropping backbecause of indepandants inthe SP and MP biz. Many ladiesare tires of giving the againcies or salons 40 to 50 % so they go on their own. Some ladies have told me that they make more as an independant than they made when they were with asolon or agency.
I don't think this explains it. My sense is the volume of business has reduced significantly enough to pressure the rates down and not, as you're suggesting, "shifted" towards other market verticals. As a matter of fact, if you'd ask some of the newly turned indies if they're working more than before, most would answer no, some would answer not a great deal more. Why I believe this is because indies rates haven't moved much for the last few years (which is a sign of resistance) whereas more than a few established indies have lowered their rates lately and the "new" indies are starting off low, barely above standard agencies rates (which is a sign of a downtrend).J. Peterman said:
Supply and Demand.
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It's funny all this distress over 10-30 dollars /hr more. I've been on the Montreal scene since 97 and much like yourselves have witnessed the shifting of prices back and forth. Back in the day when Scent of a Woman was charging 120/hr... Douce Folie was charging 100/hr BUT these weren't even GFE...you could upgrade for GFE service but that wasn't mandatory. Ironically if you upgraded for all the stuff that some agencies provide "inclusive" today...you would be paying over the 160 mark easily.
In the bigger picture, does it really impact you 'that' much if an escort is 50higher today it was 10yrs ago? If you are truly a "hobbyist" then it shouldn't. However if you are obsessed and are blowing every dollar you have on this stuff, well...sure it has a impact. I suspect those folks have deeper issues than the 50 bucks, but that's another thread entirely.
What's sad is that if prices dropped to 100 and service returned to the pre-gfe (for anyone) days, a good number of you would still bitch about the price. Basically you can't have your cake and eat it too.
When the US$ was at 1.57, Montreal became so cheap for us Americans that it seemed like the whole town was just giving away pussy...litterally. So what happens when a LOT more cash is available and the supply (at any moment in time) is relatively fixed? Inflation. Customers were willing to bid up the price for girls. Agencies got greedy and in some cases I saw 120 agencies jump to 200 in a matter of months.
The bottom line was that the prices went up because of economic conditions that lent themselves to promoting greedy behaviour on all parts. Customers, Agencies, Girls. What's happening now is simply a market correction. These things are cyclical....don't doubt for a moment that when the US$ goes back up (...oh for those happy days...) the prices will start to creep back up also...and probably higher than they got this last time.
Kazunori
*edit: One last note...with the economy in Montreal being slowed down somewhat it's not all bad news. The mileage at the strip clubs in Montreal (and i mean the ones in downtown montreal) has gone through the roof, but this discussion is for another thread)
In the bigger picture, does it really impact you 'that' much if an escort is 50higher today it was 10yrs ago? If you are truly a "hobbyist" then it shouldn't. However if you are obsessed and are blowing every dollar you have on this stuff, well...sure it has a impact. I suspect those folks have deeper issues than the 50 bucks, but that's another thread entirely.
What's sad is that if prices dropped to 100 and service returned to the pre-gfe (for anyone) days, a good number of you would still bitch about the price. Basically you can't have your cake and eat it too.
When the US$ was at 1.57, Montreal became so cheap for us Americans that it seemed like the whole town was just giving away pussy...litterally. So what happens when a LOT more cash is available and the supply (at any moment in time) is relatively fixed? Inflation. Customers were willing to bid up the price for girls. Agencies got greedy and in some cases I saw 120 agencies jump to 200 in a matter of months.
The bottom line was that the prices went up because of economic conditions that lent themselves to promoting greedy behaviour on all parts. Customers, Agencies, Girls. What's happening now is simply a market correction. These things are cyclical....don't doubt for a moment that when the US$ goes back up (...oh for those happy days...) the prices will start to creep back up also...and probably higher than they got this last time.
Kazunori
*edit: One last note...with the economy in Montreal being slowed down somewhat it's not all bad news. The mileage at the strip clubs in Montreal (and i mean the ones in downtown montreal) has gone through the roof, but this discussion is for another thread)
All of the above.
Yes, its the slowing economy.
Yes, new ladies are working alot, and the established ladies are taking a
back seat.
Yes, independant ladis are offering more for less, than agency or salon
ladies.
Yes, there a alot of new choices. Like S+M with your massage,vibrator
show with your massage, ect. ect.
The world is a changing!
Yes, its the slowing economy.
Yes, new ladies are working alot, and the established ladies are taking a
back seat.
Yes, independant ladis are offering more for less, than agency or salon
ladies.
Yes, there a alot of new choices. Like S+M with your massage,vibrator
show with your massage, ect. ect.
The world is a changing!
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