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Thread: Buying investment properties ?Or stock Market?

  1. #1
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    Buying investment properties ?Or stock Market?

    Hello all


    Any revenue property investors on this board ?
    Return ratio at purchase ,what is your aim ?
    Delay required to improve your revenue ?
    At the moment do prefer shorter terms of 2 or 3 years or longer 5 years fixed ?

    etc........



    Cheers



    Booker

  2. #2
    Hard to find good revenue properties here in Montreal unless you invest in apartment buildings as opposed to small (less than 5 unit).

    I personally invested and bought some condos in Florida in 2010 when the Canadian dollar was actually stronger than the U.S. and now with current exchange rates I'm up over 50% PLUS my rent is now up almost 30% due to exchange.

    Also laws in the states are different than here. If they don't pay rent you can kick them out same month. Not at all the same here.

  3. #3
    Under the law the landlord is a bitch. It is actually in the name of the laws. In Ontario I believe the rules are called the Bitch Tenant act.

    If you can get enough units to spread out the risk of being made a bitch by someone who knows the rules it probably aint so bad. I think I'd rather REIT up and have a layer of management between me and the trouble makers. Life is just too short.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasisname View Post

    If you can get enough units to spread out the risk of being made a bitch by someone who knows the rules it probably aint so bad. .
    Well yes spreading the risk in multiple properties under multiple corporation makes it better .
    Avoiding alter egos and in different Provinces




    Cheers



    Booker

  5. #5
    I am a large real estate investor in south florida. A large poll of my partners are from montreal or toronto. We invest in single family flips 10-20% roi 6 month. Multifamily 6-10% annual cap and retail 5-7%.
    That is why i travel to montreal so often

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carrd096 View Post
    We invest in single family flips 10-20% roi 6 month. Multifamily 6-10% annual cap and retail 5-7%.
    Those ratios are speculating only ,no additional investment then purchase price , transfer tax broker fees ?



    Cheers




    Booker

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by BookerL View Post
    Those ratios are speculating only ,no additional investment then purchase price , transfer tax broker fees ?



    Cheers




    Booker
    No speculation we have been doing this for 10 years, I closed last week on a property at 255k, bought for 210k repaired with 10k. 13.9% profit it took us 6 months.
    We have a team of 17 realtors searching property for us and work with 6 banks to purchase and resell there properties not just list on mls.

    I am a broker so usually since I make my money by partnering with the investor I include my fees as part of everybody's profit.
    My license is merely utilized to not pay the fee to other brokers unless they bring me the end user.

    I can gladly send you a 12 unit building in Little havana 1.4mm offered at a "REAL" 7% annual.

    I am going to montreal the 12 for meeting PM me and I can email you some presentations so that you know our structure or anybody else.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carrd096 View Post
    No speculation we have been doing this for 10 years, I closed last week on a property at 255k, bought for 210k repaired with 10k. 13.9% profit it took us 6 months.
    We have a team of 17 realtors searching property for us and work with 6 banks to purchase and resell there properties not just list on mls.

    I am a broker so usually since I make my money by partnering with the investor I include my fees as part of everybody's profit.
    My license is merely utilized to not pay the fee to other brokers unless they bring me the end user.

    I can gladly send you a 12 unit building in Little havana 1.4mm offered at a "REAL" 7% annual.

    I am going to montreal the 12 for meeting PM me and I can email you some presentations so that you know our structure or anybody else.
    Hi Carrd096

    I presently work the B.C market with properties that offers 7 % or above ,I working a deal at moment ,
    Purchace price $605,000 projected revenue $43,500 for first year ,with a obtainable $48,000 in second year ,I already own a similar rental 4 doors down .

    I do Montreal and B.C, laws are pro owners in the last .


    Thanks for the offer unfortunately I am in Vancouver until April .

    Next time



    Cheers



    Booker

  9. #9
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    Hello all

    Interesting Analysis from a mortgage expert :


    Our vanishing RRSP…
    In the Spring of 2012 after a 15 year roller coaster ride on the Stock Market (huge gains & sharp drops) with a net gain of less than 2% on the total contributions made, it was decision time. My wife and I took a hard look at our RRSP investment ‘strategy’ such as it was. Our conversations around investing always came back to the one area in which we always had great success; Vancouver Real Estate.
    We had always felt a greater amount of control and flexibility over our Real Estate investments than ever over stocks of mutual funds parked in the Equity markets. Our Rock star tenants departure clearly having less impact on the value of our investment as compared to the departure of a Rock star CEO or CFO might have on a company. Overall movement in the value Real Estate tends to be gradual and certainly somewhat simpler to predict than that of a Corporate share certificate.
    There is a certain confidence when it comes to investing in Bricks & Mortar that for myself is lacking with investing in ‘1’s and 0’s’.
    In the stock market a loss of confidence can have an immediate and real impact on one’s net worth within minutes, something as seemingly innocuous as a false tweet trigger abrupt and unreasonable movements. Tweets do not rock the value of Real Estate to the tune of double digits in mere minutes. The impact of market sentiment around Real Estate is slower and less radical due to the product itself being far less liquid. Thus it is far more difficult to allow emotion to drive buying and selling decisions and accordingly values tend not to move in short erratic patterns.
    Real Estate is like slow-cooking. Things happen gradually. Slow food is of course better food.
    Based on these and other conclusions, my wife and I took what felt like a pretty radical step in 2012 and cashed out our entire RRSP choosing to invest the net (after tax) proceeds in a piece of Real Estate.
    In the spring of 2012 we put 60K down on a 240K townhouse. Here are the numbers as they stand today;
    We currently have a positive Cashflow of $400.00 per month, which acts akin to a 8% ‘dividend’. (The $4800.00 of positive cash flow in our hands each year representing a 8% return on the $60,000 invested in the property.)
    This money remains in the Holding Corps account as a buffer against vacancies, special assessments, and future interest rate hikes. Also worth noting is that over time the rents charged will continue to rise with inflation, and of course the mortgage balance will decline. Setting us up for the closest thing our self-employed careers will get to an inflation adjusted indexed pension of sorts.
    This $4800.00 cashflow return is over and above the portion of the monthly mortgage payments which represent principle paydown,
    The mortgage principle paydown over the first 3 years has consistently been $3,600.00 per year. Another 6% return on the initial investment.
    This elevates the return to 14% annually, assuming the market remains stable and values flat. Which for 3 bedroom townhomes in Port Moody I have little doubt population growth and inflation will ensure. Far more likely is that the property will appreciate by at least 1% per year.
    1% per year on the asset itself being an effective return of 4% on the initial investment.
    Since purchasing the property we have actually seen sales in the complex reflecting about a 3% gain per year on the original purchase price. (Or 12% based on our initial $60,000 investment.)
    Collectively we are tracking for an ROI of 26% in 2015.
    How do we sleep at night with tenants in our lives? Quite well in fact.
    Vacancy rates on 3 bedroom units in particular are extremely low. With the 2009-2013 rounds of mortgage guideline changes which pushed many lower mainland first time buyers from the market, vacancies are likely to remain extremely low as many first time buyers will be forced to rent for additional years waiting for their incomes to rise and down payments savings to grow.
    Finding positive Cashflow in the lower mainland is not easy, but it can be done. Arguably if one is at least breaking even on a monthly cash-in over cash-out basis then the math on the mortgage principle pay-down by the tenant still represents potential for tremendous gain over the long haul.
    Real Estate investing is mostly boring, as it should be. It is a ‘get-rich-slow’ proposition. Slow and boring, which as I am now in my 40’s I can live with, at least somewhat more so than when I was in my 20’s (back then I was overexposed to late night TV personality Tom Vu “A lot of your friends will tell you, ‘Don’t come to the seminar. It’s a get-rich-quick plan.’ Well, tell them, it is a get-rich-quick plan because life is too short to get rich slow.“).
    Thanks for that Tom.
    Life as it turns out is not quick…it is long and slow. (Luckily)
    Too bad I cannot go back in time and advise myself that getting rich slow, over say 20 years, would have been fine. Of course today we use more refined vernacular these days and it is all about ‘building wealth’.
    So get out there an build some wealth.
    Full disclosure;
    There is one another facet of our overall investment strategy worth noting, we personally have the tremendous benefit of being Incorporated and as such we have implemented a degree of diversification around our investments via a Corporate Asset Transfer strategy which in many ways acts as an insured pension plan. Well worth further conversation as an option to an RRSP for those who own their own business’. However I will let another expert pick that topic up in depth.
    Our main focus moving forward will continue to be Real Estate.
    Year over year the Real Estate investments continue to trump anything we attempt in the equities market. Some may see this as the biased comments of a person deeply connected to the Real Estate market, others may see it as biased simply from 24 years of experience with owning investment properties and having had 24 years of success with them on a personal level.
    Thanks for your time.

    Dustan Woodhouse



    The post Vancouver Real Estate & our Vanishing RRSP appeared first on Dustan Woodhouse - Mortgage Expert.



    Cheers




    Booker

  10. #10
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    Great thread Booker...
    Personally, I grew up around RE in the family and I always hated it...

    Nothing like the thrill of speculation...the stock market and financial futures!
    Takes knowledge and experience...but there is nothing like it...However, my comments are biased because I am in the business.

    RE today is a real joke!...and so is RE in MTL...just go around and see all the commercial space available for lease in this city...Good luck to all those suckers that are trying to unload all that crap!...Taxes, surtaxes, welcome taxes, collections, high tax rates......are you fuckin' kidding me!

    Why stocks and futures over RE? Very simple reason...Higher leverage....Lower costs....Instant cash on gains that is available to you...easy to do your own research...easy to perform your own valuation...fully transparent pricing...and above all LIQUIDITY...I can get in an out of a position faster than I can get in and out of an SP's pussy.......

  11. #11
    All the $$$ has migrated to the market its like a huge over inflated balloon and will no doubt explode again, they always blow up a new one soon. Once she's blown that's the best time to get into the market, you can never go wrong with properly bought real estate you have to find that deal

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by sharkman View Post
    .



    RE today is a real joke!...and so is RE in MTL...just go around and see all the commercial space available for lease in this city...Good luck to all those suckers that are trying to unload all that crap!...Taxes, surtaxes, welcome taxes, collections, high tax rates......are you fuckin' kidding me!

    Why stocks and futures over RE? Very simple reason...Higher leverage....Lower costs....Instant cash on gains that is available to you...easy to do your own research...easy to perform your own valuation...fully transparent pricing...and above all LIQUIDITY...I can get in an out of a position faster than I can get in and out of an SP's pussy.......
    Commercial RE is very hard to sell mainly bc lenders require 50% down, but residential is much easier to buy & more profitable. I've made millions in flipping residential RE

    but I lost my shirt in the stock market, I never know when to sell. One building I'm selling soon because of the tax burden, even with tax on 50% of the equity gain I

    should walk away with over 400K profit.

  13. #13
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    Hello all

    When I see a rebuttal ,I like to see numbers ,just saying someone sucks at something doesn't make it true !

    Canada being a country ,their is booming areas in realestate ,where multiple offers is the norm .
    The realestate Montreal market at the moment is not what it use to !
    But B.C is great in the Vancouver surroundings .
    Surrey Cloverdale area is a great potential to multiply your dollars on recently built revenue properties


    Good luck to all investors ,in stocks or real estate




    Cheers




    Booker

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vacationer View Post
    Should I also provide evidence that the sky is blue?
    Well is that a serious question ?

    Since the sky is always blue ?


    You are welcome to make a comparison apple to apple, looking forward for it .



    Cheers




    Booker

  15. #15
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    Well real estate market is increasing rapidly in B.C ,the inventory of coach house's listed sales within a few days ,certainly a very interesting investment .
    Property assessment in Surrey B.C.( Cloverdale area ) increased between 4.5 and 5.5 % between 2014 and 2015 .


    Cheers





    Booker

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