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Thread: Hobbyist Bachelors

  1. #1

    Hobbyist Bachelors

    Since my divorce, I have fielded many many questions as to whether I was dating anyone or whether I wanted to remarry. Inquiring male and female minds want to know, alas. But I'm not going to tell them anything about my hobbying, LOL. As the Mafia saying goes, "Silence never betrayed a man." On occasion, I'll be asked by various escorts (or other ladies in this business) whether I'm married or have kids. That kinda stuff.

    Hobbying isn't an inexpensive pastime yet I find it preferable to the dating jungle as a guy in my forties. I've read many message threads where guys have doubts as to whether they are missing out on life by spending significant time and money in the hobby. I'm from the school that marriage has its risks. I saw Donald Trump being interviewed on TV by Donny Deutch and The Donald said something to the effect that marriage was great if you were with the right woman. If you were not with the right woman, it's a "disaster". Agree with him fully on that point.

    What I find interesting is how society tends to think of male hobbyists as losers. Guys who can't get laid because of horrid looks or social skills. The irony, from my vantage point, is that there are PLENTY of decent-looking hobbyists who are very successful in their careers and have substantial annual incomes ($100,000+ per year) in many cases. For some reason, these bachelors, who may have been married or have been in serious real-life relationships, choose to hobby rather than vigorously pursue the traditional love and marriage route. The answer for me is simple. I'm not keen on remarriage. Divorce can be a very cruel process and I unfortunately went through a very bad divorce.

    So that's my story, in a nutshell. I'm interested in the thoughts and perspectives of others on this topic.

    Cheers,
    Jim

  2. #2
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    Although I have not been through a painful divorce, I agree with the views of Jim2005. I am not really as interested in having a serious relationship as I am with sexual experimentation. I don't have a "regular" like many hobbyists, which I think is anti-hobbying. It's the experimentation aspect of it that fascinates me. When I meet women they are very surprised that I am not married or in a serious relationship, especially since I am a professional and earn a very good income. But that kind of monogamy would require me to invest exclusively in one woman a whole lot of semen, and why should I do that when I can spread it around and share the wealth, so to speak?

  3. #3
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    EB>> have you considered the concept that marriage need not equal monotony oops I mean monogamy?


    Ronnie,
    Naughtylady
    They will forget what you said,
    they will forget what you did,
    but they will never forget the way you made them feel.

  4. #4
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    Ronnie,

    I have considered, and rejected, that concept. I am perfectly content to be a hobbyist bachelor like Jim2005.......in fact other than the painful divorce part, I believe I have a lot in common with Jim2005.

  5. #5
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    Older guy - Younger woman

    Interesting post.

    My question is - As a guy in my mid 40s, I know I would have the best chances of getting a girlfriend in her 30s or 40s. However, I love younger women. I've seen guys in their 40s with younger girls and they were not father-daughter (unless it was incest).

    Have any of you guys gone this route? How did you meet her? And was it worth it?

    It must be far less expensive especially considering you can spend a lot more time with the woman of your desire than escorts.

    Daydreamer41

  6. #6
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    Daydreamer,

    If you have money it's not a problem but you are going to spend it either way, and in the long run you will spend less on escorts, if you factor in the costs of marriage and divorce. Marriage (buying ring and paying for wedding) and divorce (costs of lawyer and miscellaneous expenses) are HUGELY expensive events. And I am not even counting courtship costs (gifts, dinners, etc.) The escort will never marry or divorce you, therefore, you will save money as a hobbyist bachelor. LOTS of money. Do some basic math and you will see that escorts are THOUSANDS less expensive than GF who matriculates into wife and then ex-wife.

    But some guys just seem to like getting their paychecks raped in divorce court, and I watch them and scratch my head. Fools! Andf one of these fools, who happens to be a good friend of mine, could not afford to come with me to Montreal on my last trip because he had just gotten fleeced in divorce court.
    Last edited by EagerBeaver; 05-21-2005 at 08:54 PM.

  7. #7

    Money

    It seems that, as with most things, the bottom line is money. Basically if you have a lot to spend you will have your choice of who to spend it on, a regular lady or a SP. The thing is that not everyone earns 100K or more. Some of us are average earning guys, and average looking also. It's easy to pick up a 20 something on Crescent St. if you pull up in a Porsche or a 'vette and have plenty of money to toss around. Same thing with dancers. It seems that the average hobbyist here makes much more that the average guy. For tha average guys here, of which I am one, we have to save up to get a SP for an hour or two or a dancer for that matter. This also makes us more particular in choosing a SP because it may be a while before we can afford the next one.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by EagerBeaver
    Daydreamer,

    If you have money it's not a problem but you are going to spend it either way, and in the long run you will spend less on escorts, if you factor in the costs of marriage and divorce. Marriage (buying ring and paying for wedding) and divorce (costs of lawyer and miscellaneous expenses) are HUGELY expensive events. And I am not even counting courtship costs (gifts, dinners, etc.) The escort will never marry or divorce you, therefore, you will save money as a hobbyist bachelor. LOTS of money. Do some basic math and you will see that escorts are THOUSANDS less expensive than GF who matriculates into wife and then ex-wife.

    But some guys just seem to like getting their paychecks raped in divorce court, and I watch them and scratch my head. Fools! Andf one of these fools, who happens to be a good friend of mine, could not afford to come with me to Montreal on my last trip because he had just gotten fleeced in divorce court.
    Who says you have to marry? Serial girlfriends are possible?

  9. #9
    barely could get a date to save my life, and I'm 30!

    Come to think of it, the real reason why I sometimes hobby, it is detach myself. I've been treated horribly by women that I've dated, they've been incredibly cruel to me, though I know they're messed up girls, but I got devestated with each one, and I just want to avoid the hurt, though I admit I sometimes like the SPs, though I have slowly developed realistic expectations even regarding that. Just do it to ease the possibility of future pain, but just realizing not taking things very seriously. Dunno how it's gonna work though. Was kinda devestated by a girl not too long ago, but I was stupid, had unrealistic expectations, but twas a huge fantasy to go to a foreign country to visit a girl. Let this be a lesson to you all, if you have socially retarded sons, they might be like me and are unable to handle getting burned, and that leads to months and months of absolute misery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim2005
    Since my divorce, I have fielded many many questions as to whether I was dating anyone or whether I wanted to remarry. Inquiring male and female minds want to know, alas. But I'm not going to tell them anything about my hobbying, LOL. As the Mafia saying goes, "Silence never betrayed a man." On occasion, I'll be asked by various escorts (or other ladies in this business) whether I'm married or have kids. That kinda stuff.

    Hobbying isn't an inexpensive pastime yet I find it preferable to the dating jungle as a guy in my forties. I've read many message threads where guys have doubts as to whether they are missing out on life by spending significant time and money in the hobby. I'm from the school that marriage has its risks. I saw Donald Trump being interviewed on TV by Donny Deutch and The Donald said something to the effect that marriage was great if you were with the right woman. If you were not with the right woman, it's a "disaster". Agree with him fully on that point.

    What I find interesting is how society tends to think of male hobbyists as losers. Guys who can't get laid because of horrid looks or social skills. The irony, from my vantage point, is that there are PLENTY of decent-looking hobbyists who are very successful in their careers and have substantial annual incomes ($100,000+ per year) in many cases. For some reason, these bachelors, who may have been married or have been in serious real-life relationships, choose to hobby rather than vigorously pursue the traditional love and marriage route. The answer for me is simple. I'm not keen on remarriage. Divorce can be a very cruel process and I unfortunately went through a very bad divorce.

    So that's my story, in a nutshell. I'm interested in the thoughts and perspectives of others on this topic.

    Cheers,
    Jim
    Last edited by newbieatthis; 05-22-2005 at 01:17 AM. Reason: edit

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by daydreamer41
    Who says you have to marry? Serial girlfriends are possible?
    Good luck if you think so. At your age the "give me ring or hit the highway" discussion will come much, much quicker than you think, especially if you have dough.

    When you report back it will not be necessary for you to tell me that I was right. Go ahead and learn, if you must.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by EagerBeaver
    Good luck if you think so. At your age the "give me ring or hit the highway" discussion will come much, much quicker than you think, especially if you have dough.

    When you report back it will not be necessary for you to tell me that I was right. Go ahead and learn, if you must.
    Eager. Maybe I am naive. There are some girls who don't want to get married at a younger age. They want some experience first? I am just asking for feedback from guys who have experience in this area.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dudemtl
    Would it surprise you if I said that in order to have regular casual sex with non-SPs and not spend a dime WITHOUT having to have a huge income, good looks or great social skills is more than possible?

    If you said yes, and I would have said that about a year ago, then you probably don't have the tools that automatically trigger attraction in a woman. It can literally take minutes to do so, if you know what you're doing.
    And it doesn't require you spending a dime, giving flowers, buying dinner, chocolates, etc.

    It doesn't mean you're a loser, or have poor social skills. It means that it is EASIER to simply hire an SP than to learn what triggers attraction in a woman.

    It took me awhile, but once you are able to do it, the thought of even paying for her coffee sounds ridiculous.
    So why are you wasting your time posting on this Board, instead of going out to a coffee shop where you can meet someone and get laid without having to buy her coffee?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dee
    So when a SP asks you if you are married (or in a "comitted" relationship and you are, do you:

    a. tell the truth
    b. talk like a politician (i.e.) lie ????
    I am always asked this question, I always tell the truth (which is no), and I am never believed.

  14. #14
    I also prefer hobbying to divorce.

    I know that at this point in my life that I like variety at least until I find that one women that will make me forget about the rest. I consider it pointless just to go out with a girl to try and sleep with her. I prefer not to get tangled in that web. You will probably spend as much money or more and much more time in trying to sleep with with a girl you are trying to hook up with than what you can get in a SP. I am not into wasting time. In this day and age people don't have much time to waste either.

    Heres my soap box stand:
    I think much of hobbyist frustrations should not be. Prostitution being seen as bad and illegal is purely a church law/rule. Coming from the States raised Catholic, who is the Catholic church to say this is wrong?? Adultry\fornacation is commonplace nowadays. I am not sure if my vision as a hobbiest is biased, but I just can't see what is wrong with it other than at some point laws were created against it so I am supposed to believe it is wrong.
    My thoughts are based upon it being consenting safe practice between 2 adults and not pubicly flaunted as in a street walker.
    MM

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by dudemtl
    I disagree. And here's why:

    If we polled every hobbyist in this board and asked them: if you were offered the choice of either a) shelling out lots of money regularly for an SP or b) Having casual sex with many different women you find attractive who aren't SPs and you wouldn't have to spend a dime, which would you choose?

    I think B would be the choice.

    Now let me ask you this: How many of those people polled believe that they realistically HAVE that choice between A and B?

    Would it surprise you if I said that in order to have regular casual sex with non-SPs and not spend a dime WITHOUT having to have a huge income, good looks or great social skills is more than possible?

    If you said yes, and I would have said that about a year ago, then you probably don't have the tools that automatically trigger attraction in a woman. It can literally take minutes to do so, if you know what you're doing.
    And it doesn't require you spending a dime, giving flowers, buying dinner, chocolates, etc.

    It doesn't mean you're a loser, or have poor social skills. It means that it is EASIER to simply hire an SP than to learn what triggers attraction in a woman.

    It took me awhile, but once you are able to do it, the thought of even paying for her coffee sounds ridiculous.
    Interesting commentary, dudemtl. I know a guy in his mid-20s who has legit GQ model looks and has never lacked for female attention. After he headed off to college, high school chicks 2-3 years younger than him used to pursue him as their prom dates. He's had a steady girlfriend for a couple years running and now they're engaged. One head- game that a few girls would play with him, when he got to college, was that they'd spread rumors that he was gay if he simply wanted to be friends with a girl and hang out.

    Not every guy is after casual sex with lots of women. You hinted at what techniques you employ in chatting up women and scoring with them. One mid-30s guy I knew in academia had a very keen intellect and a razor-sharp wit, with the ability to use words sparingly and effectively. "Pithy" is how TV's Bill O'Reilly calls it. This friend was a very average looking guy at best. Nevertheless he had gals 13 years his junior chasing and bedding him because they found his personality, smarts, and wit to be irresistible. I don't know your age but I'll take a stab and guess that you're in your late 20s. I've found that a lot of gals in the USA expect a ton of gentlemanly behavior from any guy that's going to pursue them romantically. Picking up the tab for coffee isn't a requirement in some social situations, but being magnanimous is a good practice in this day and age. A guy with natural charm who exudes magnanimous behavior will attract plenty of ladies.

    EB brought up some interesting points about divorce and his friend's experience. Each state in the USA has its own laws regarding marital/family matters and whenever there are kids, things can get very complex. If you're going to hire a $350/hr. attorney, let's say, you're going to have to put thousands of dollars in escrow with that law firm. Once the balance of your account declines, you will have to deposit more money. Like the Morton's Salt commercials of yesteryear, "When it rains, it pours." Right off the bat, you feel like your legal costs are a blank check. If you're lucky, you might have an amicable divorce and finalize everything within 6-12 months if there are no children involved. With kids in the picture, the process can take a minimum of 12 months before your case goes to the judge. If there is marital misbehavior alleged, to include adultery or physical/emotional abuse, then some states will speed up the process. Some married guys who dabble in the hobby might think that their spouse is in the dark. But internet spyware and forensic tools can nail a hobbyist. I know a guy from the Amsterdam scene whose wife found out about his hobbying that way.

    One thing I learned about the divorce process is that your cash flows can be greatly affected. It can be a horribly expensive process. Spousal support ("alimony" to some) can be in the thousands of dollars per month and it can be open-ended. What if your spouse suddenly says she can't work, and her attorney is arguing her case? Then they'll want you to pay an monthly amount that can be open-ended. Spousal support is altogether separate from child support, where most states use a worksheet/payment formula and compare her income to yours, out of the total pool. Child support will often easily run into many hundreds of dollars per month, even for one child. Sometimes the soon-to-be-ex will want you to commit in writing to pay for a percentage of future college costs for the kid, beyond high school graduation. Under the laws of most states, the father routinely isn't required to pay for child support beyond high school graduation (age 18 or so). What else? You might also have to pay for part/all of her attorney's fees, to add insult to injury. If you're living apart while you're separated, you now have 2 separate and distinct housing bills. Own a big house with a huge mortgage? You might very well have to sell it. Tax consequences? There are many. From a pure cash-flow perspective, you end up paying out far more than you ever imagined and that probably means much less take-home pay in the short run. In the meantime, some folks think you should be out there dating up a storm while you're in a "separated" marital status. So life gets very complicated in such situations. It's wise not to "hit below the belt" with your ex, even when you're very tempted to do so. There's something to be said for taking the high road, when you look back on the situation years down the line, especially if any children are involved. Divorce is very tough on women too.

    Dudemtl made an interesting point about "shelling out lots of money regularly for an SP". The reality is that there are plenty of guys who take sabbaticals from the hobby and don't shell out lots of money versus the real-life alternative (girlfriend or wife). If you don't have a regular girlfriend in your life, post-divorce or not, you are in a position to build some wealth, with an application of savvy, due diligence, and a bit of good fortune. No real-life girlfriend means NOT having to pay multiple thousands of dollars per year for food, drink, entertainment, gifts, flowers, transportation, out-of-area travel (hotels, airfares perhaps, and many related expenses). How many thousands of dollars per year for a real-life girlfriend? I'd say $4000-8000/year as a ballpark estimate, which some folks may consider too high or too low. With marriage, you and your wife are both committed to the mortgage and many ongoing monthly costs, moreso than if you're a bachelor. Being a bachelor and not getting laid is pretty damn dreary. So I naturally want to have fun, get laid and meet some great ladies in the process. So that's where the hobby comes in. When the notion of remarriage pops in my head, I'm thinking "unfunded liabilities" because if marriage #2 fails, the courts in many cases don't give a rat's ass about all the post-divorce payment flows going to spouse #1. That can sometimes lead to personal bankruptcy or other forms of trauma. Some of us have heard the saying that "if it flies, floats, or fucks, it's cheaper to rent by the hour." While that's a rather cynical statement, there's an element of truth to it. Good divorce lawyers start at $350/hr. and up, in major USA cities. Top-notch HDHs in North America can be found for significantly less than that hourly cost. And once the rendezvous ends, she goes her own way and you go your own way. No further obligations. Generally speaking, I've found the quality and integrity of the gals in this hobby to be far better than I had imagined.

    Cheers,
    Jim
    Last edited by Jim2005; 05-22-2005 at 04:58 PM.

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