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Trump's Tariffs and Trade War

Meta not Meta

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Dec 26, 2016
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China's car manufacturer BYD makes high-quality EVs beginning at less than USD $10,000 and up. That's almost $50,000 cheaper than the average price of an EV in the US: or about the same cost as a higher-end Chinese EV.

Oligarchs like Musk love the free market when it works in their favour. But as soon as it doesn't, they start squealing, and the politicians that work in their interests come to their rescue.

"Free trade" was always nonsense. Every advanced economy developed through significant state intervention, tariffs, subsidies and industrial policy.

The US only preached free trade after establishing the hegemony of its dollar aka "the rules based order."

But now that it is losing dominance to China, it is returning to protectionism in order to better compete with it.
 

Womaniser

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2017
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China's car manufacturer BYD makes high-quality EVs beginning at less than USD $10,000 and up. That's almost $50,000 cheaper than the average price of an EV in the US: or about the same cost as a higher-end Chinese EV.

Oligarchs like Musk love the free market when it works in their favour. But as soon as it doesn't, they start squealing, and the politicians that work in their interests come to their rescue.

"Free trade" was always nonsense. Every advanced economy developed through significant state intervention, tariffs, subsidies and industrial policy.

The US only preached free trade after establishing the hegemony of its dollar aka "the rules based order."

But now that it is losing dominance to China, it is returning to protectionism in order to better compete with it.

On another subject, King Donald is threatening France for their industries DEI policies !
MAGA CULT members are very discreet on all the BS that his administration has accomplished in just 2 months ! The most unqualified group of clown in power !
Imagine almost 4 years.
 

Womaniser

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,936
3,454
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On another subject, King Donald is threatening France for their industries DEI policies !
MAGA CULT members are very discreet on all the BS that his administration has accomplished in just 2 months ! The most unqualified group of clown in power !
Imagine almost 4 years.

Trump is consistently affirming that since always, other countries have taken advantage of USA.
What does it say about the intelligence of Americans through those times ?
His economist in chief Pete Navarro was his economy top guy in his first mandate.
According to Trump he was also incompetent and he hired him still !
What a clown !
 

gaby

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Jul 31, 2011
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The WORLD TRADE WAR is on/ 185 countries.....total total ABSURDITY......let's see how they will RETALIATE..... starting with CANADA.....non sense non sense non sense....and who will pay the bill?????...you got it.....lol.
 

neverbored

NF*G
Aug 17, 2003
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en.wikipedia.org
The WORLD TRADE WAR is on/ 185 countries.....total total ABSURDITY......let's see how they will RETALIATE..... starting with CANADA.....non sense non sense non sense....and who will pay the bill?????...you got it.....lol.

I guess I'm just too dumb to understand this high level power thinking. Why does this just look like 25% tax increase to all Americans with a side of self-embargo ?
 

TheJames101

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Jan 20, 2017
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There's been a pretty legitimate rumor going around that they based their tariffs on the trade deficits not the tariff rates - except for the 10% base number. So even Australia, with whom there are no tariffs... and they actually have a trade deficite WITH the USA... they ge teh 10% slapped on them too. Make sense of that.

 

Meta not Meta

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Dec 26, 2016
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Hard to make sense of it all.

Basically a regressive consumption tax on regular Americans that may not even generate that much revenue after reducing overall growth in the US economy. Especially so if, as suspected, he next reduces taxes for corporations and high earners, which may be his main purpose in all this.

And then there's just the ongoing uncertainty that is bad for investment everywhere ...

But mostly I don't understand his supposed strategy to reindustrialize the US. That's got to be a ten year "plan" at least. If the economy goes into recession he probably losses both the house and senate in two years. End of plan. Unless he declares a national emergency, brings in martial law and does a Zelensky on the nation, becoming president (for what remains of his life) in order to see it through ....

How can anyone put trust in the US?

Agreements don't mean anything with this clown. And it's not just him. From president to president anything can change on a dime. In recent years, the United States has unilaterally withdrawn from several other international agreements--and not just our own already renogiated trade agreement.

All while putting down economic & other sanctions on much of the globe, attacking countries, threatening others, and funding wars, including an ongoing genocide.
 
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neverbored

NF*G
Aug 17, 2003
539
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113
en.wikipedia.org
Sorry for the long post. I spent the last few hours reading about this as its been bugging me all night and didn't feel like condensing it. I'm not a financial analyst, but do have interests.



My thoughts

They currently have a $34 Trillion national debt. And have already raised the dept ceiling to prevent defaulting. But now they have $3 Trillion debt maturing in 2025 and can’t afford a blowout in yields (increase in interest rates). A Fed bailout (aka printing money) affects the dollar’s credibility and value. So instead, they could be staging a controlled fire; using tariffs to create just enough panic to slow the economy down without torching everything and try to put the blame on foreign exporters. Trump and Musk have be saying this openly for months.

Why? Because slowing the economy reduces inflation, which tends to shift investors to seek “safe” USD assets (bonds), which increases demand for dollars.

It’s definitly not random.

The tariffs aren’t just to "look tough". They’re targeted at countries with large trade surpluses with the U.S. but especially cheap labor export models. Think China, India, Vietnam... The higher the trade imbalance, the higher the tariff based on how dependent they are on selling to the U.S. but that also hurts their adversaries who rely on exports for their GDP. Why so many? I mean, some countries I've never even heard of. I think its a smoke show required by their MAGA narative. 10% blanket is nothing and still brings something to the coffres.

Meanwhile, 77% of the U.S. economy is services which is untouchable by tariffs. Finance, tech, consulting? all safe. What’s getting hit? TVs, sneakers, cheap electronics (ie: Amazon) ; stuff that’s price elastic and won’t break the economy if it costs 20-50% more (of course middle class will freak).


What I think they are trying to accomplish

When the market cools due to tariffs, they are hoping money will move from the stock market and into U.S. Treasuries (considered “safe havens”). That demand in bonds pushes down yields (interest rates), which makes it cheaper to refinance that mountain of a debt. So yeah, tariffs raise money, but they also lower the cost of borrowing = double win.

Trump is using the nationalism speech while internally could just be his attempt to prevent an actual collapse of the USD. I'm hoping with a lot of doubt here lol cause you know... Trump. We can laugh all we want about his antics, his persona, his failed businesses. But the bottom line truth, the US can't show weakness at a time like this. Even China can't afford to see the US economy collapse as they need people with credit cards to buy their crap (even if they hold 760$ billion in US Treasury bonds).

No taxes. No money printing. No panic and hopefully no riots (this I'm curious to see how they manage this). Just controlled noise. This might be why so few Democrats are yelling. The US economy could truly be at a more fragile crossroads than we know and that doesn't help democrats either. I think Dems will wait a year before going full force as they can't do anything right now.


My conclusions

The middle class is about to get fucking squeezed - But they are going to deflect the inflation to other countries in their narrative to prevent uprising (I think this fails).
Managed inflation while maintaining a strong dollar even if it means the entire world goes into a global recession... this is going to suck for everyone and will take a long time to re-establish trust. But they don't care about that... cause USA#1 regardless. This has always been the american way, should not be a surprise.


The signs I'm looking for

  • The stock market is going to take a severe hit. If you have any investments you've already been feeling the burn for over a month.
  • After the hit, keep an eye on quality stocks getting hit hard by tariffs will eventually rise back (Apple, Nvidia, etc...).
  • Opportunities in U.S. blue chip stocks, especially in service sectors (finance, tech, health) as they're tariff-insulated.
  • Treasury yields dropping = demand rising.
  • That 3$ Trillion dollar debt.

As for Canada... save your money and buy local. A lot of Canadians need that support more than they need anything from abroad right now. And let’s not forget plenty of countries showed us love when it mattered. They’re about to feel the pain too, and it’s our turn to stand by them. This is gonna hurt, but we might come out stronger if we double down on new alliances. Hopefully, the U.S. wakes up and pulls up a chair at the family table... with a damn good bottle of bourbon.
 
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