Hamas & Israel

[Inglorious Bastard]

October 7 is a staged movie; Holocaust is a myth. We heard this before. I know what sort of people are saying this. Any rational discussion with such people is impossible. Thus, Israel has the ability and the will to defend itself.

I never said October 7th is a movie. I said it was not unprovoked.

I never said the Holocaust/Shoa is a myth. I believe the exact opposite... It's the whole reason why the only thing that needs to cease is this racist, suppremasisist, narcissistic and psychopathic way of thinking that leads to the elimination of a whole people.

You go man! Only Israel has the right to "defend" itself against Gaza, the West Bank, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Iran ... So rational

 

[wiinston17]

So no. Again, October 7 is not unprovoked.

October 7 is a staged movie; Holocaust is a myth. We heard this before. I know what sort of people are saying this. Any rational discussion with such people is impossible. Thus, Israel has the ability and the will to defend itself.

I never understood this logic. As you rightly put it, "Any rational discussion with such people is impossible" because this argument is deeply flawed. If I were to assert that because the U.S. committed war crimes in Vietnam, Pearl Harbor was therefore not an unprovoked attack. Do you see how incoherent that sounds?

The Nazi holocaust and October 7th are completely separate events, and @Inglorious Bastard didn't insinuate it otherwise. Israel, officially, didn't even exist back in 1939-1945. Any attempt to conflate the Nazi holocaust and October 7th (including the events that led up to it) is disingenuous at best and contributing to actual anti-semitism. If you truly care about anti-semitism, don't numb people to being labelled as one, by using the term to defend every action of a country, just because it calls itself the Jewish state.

Most importantly, the Palestinians had nothing to do with the Nazi holocaust, that was the Europeans, especially considering how much they wanted the Jews out of Europe.

But given that it's been almost 22 months Israel's right and actual carrying said "self-defense", the likehood of either of us changing our minds is unlikely. Nonetheless, I hope you find it in yourself to humanize Palestinians, because the amount of people incapable of feeling compassion, empathy and, at this point, even pity for children dying of hunger who have done absolutely nothing wrong... is heartbreaking.

 

[minutemenX]

I never understood this logic.

This is the twisted and selectively applied logic. How many American civilians were killed by the Japanese during WWII? Practically none. How many Japanese civilians were killed by the US bombing raids including atomic bombs? Almost 1 M. Was the general objective of the US military to kill as many civilians as possible? Not at all. The objective was to win the war. Would the US abstain from widespread bombing if Japanese had surrendered earlier? I believe no question, they would.

Israel is waging openly declared war against Hamas. I consider it a just war with the objective to eliminate Hamas. Can the objective be reached without civilian casualties or by minimizing them below the current level? I do not know how any military can do it in the urban combat with the enemy hiding in tunnels and behind civilians. If anybody knows how to win this war without civilian casualties or have historical examples, you are welcome to suggest. The only non-negotiable part is not winning. This Israel can not afford.

 

[Halloween Mike]

Down the line there will always be one simple fact ... If Hamas surrender and free the hostage, the war would be over.

I know some of you who are anti-Israel consider it "illegal" or "occupation" yada yada but that is simply not true. There was the partition, then Israel was attacked and won the war.

The goal of the peoples like Hamas is declared and not subtile, its to eradicate the Jews wich they see as a "cancer" of some sorts to their Islam. Every single person who chant "from the river to the sea" litterally is chanting for the genocide of the Jews, the destruction of Israel. Granted some can't even name either the river or the sea, a lot are just young "activists" perpetuating their "eternal cause" and likely just moved from another one before 2023.

The funniest thing i see is when peoples say Gaza was an "open air prison". The security measures that were put in place were simply that... SECURITY. And they were obviously not enough. Imagine if Gaza had control of the sea, the air space ... October 7 wouldn't had been 1200 deaths but 10 000, maybe more. I don't think prisons have cafés, market, phones, and litterally some peoples in Gaza had a lavish lifestyle.

Otherwise, i don't know how else to put it. I see Hamas on the same level as the worst of ISIS. I have no pity or concern for them. They are evil monsters rotten to the core. They don't even care that because of THEIR actions, young children dies and their region been shredded to rubbles. Quite frankly i am sorry to say it like that but i don't think any "2 states solution" could ever work. There is an hatred that is too deeply rooted. And the biggest difference between Israel and the Islamists... Israel value life. They don't want to die. Every soldier who has fallen since the war started is a tragedy. While on the Hamas side, they just call them "martyr" and are willing to send as many as there is to the meatgrinder. For them "dying for the cause" is an honor and they are sure they gonna get virgins in heaven...

What bothers me the most is lots of peoples militating for "Palestine" do not even look at the Russia-Ukraine war. They don't even condemn Russia. You think Israel is brutal with their prisoners, go inform yourself on the Russian prisons and the threatment of Ukrainians. And not just soldiers, even civilians.

Honestly i am tired ... i won't lie. I wish this damn war (well both of them) could be over. But even if it would... there will always be islamists terrorism ... and thats a really concerning reality. There was terrorists attacks before Oct 7, and there will be once the war is over.

Unless major developements (like an actual end to the war) i think i will simply stop posting in this thread from now on. Its obvious i won't make peoples like Inglorious Bastard or Anna Bijou change point of view, and its obvious they will not change mine either. So it feel like a waste of time.